carrying with one in the chamber

[KBintheSLC]

It is safe as long as you are safe. No gun/holster combo will save you if you can't keep your finger off the trigger when drawing. Eventually, it will lead to a neg discharge. Just practice proper safe handling techniques and then you can keep one in the chamber. In my 25 years of shooting, I have never seen a gun that fires on its own... even when it gets dropped.

 

[SigSauerIsBetter]

Finger off the trigger...

I had someone tell me not to get my SERPA holster because it makes you press down and your finger naturally goes onto the trigger...

My finger doesn't go onto the trigger until I am ready to destroy whatever is down range. Muscle memory is a good thing.

 

[ScareyH22A]

Wrong... your trigger finger will be completely extended as you draw your weapon from a SERPA.

 

[lordmegatron]

the gun was in his hand.. when bo
jumped on him his hand came down
that's when he shot himself

 

[Marcus84]

I understand it's all about the user but why do some people say that striker-fired weapons are more prone to NDs?

 

[dmazur]

Condition 0

Just a question, lately, and I mean the last few months, I've heard this term being used..."Condition 0". Where did that come from? It's recent.

I don't know the answer to this one, but I'm curious as well. It's not mentioned in "The Modern Technique of the Pistol" (Morrison/Cooper), which lists four modes of carry.

Maybe the reason why it wasn't mentioned is because it isn't a mode of carry, it's "firing mode".

Interestingly, that book says that Condition 2 is a safe mode of carry, as long as the hammer is fully down. (Ignoring modern concerns of "how do you safely get the pistol in Condition 2?")

Here's a link that claims Col. Cooper did use that term -

1911 Conditions

I don't have a full set of everything Col. Cooper wrote, so I can't refute the attribution.

 

[Knightrider03m]

Mines always have one in the chamber. Thats the only way for me.

 

[lordmegatron]

i was at costello's in cincinnati
they said one in the chamber is a mistake

 

[Mike Honcho]

I think carrying with a unchambered round puts yourself at a serious disadvantage in a pressure situation. When I carry my 1911, it's with the hammer back and ready to roll. Responsible holstering is a must with most firearms. Finger on the trigger when you want to fire, otherwise don't do it.

 

[dmazur]

they said one in the chamber is a mistake

One in the chamber is a different condition of readiness, not a mistake.

Negligent discharges are mistakes.

I believe many are trying for a logical conclusion where one does not exist -- carrying in a different condition of readiness is not, in and of itself, unsafe. Improper gun handling, including drawing/reholstering and administrative tasks like loading/unloading and cleaning, are the cause of ND's, IMO.

The Colt manual that used to come with Series 80's danced around the issue by saying you should carry in Condition 3 "when carrying the pistol ready for use" and Condition 1 "when you must be prepared to use the pistol immediately without warning".

Of course, other sections of the user's manual state that, to "minimize risk of unintentional discharge, load the pistol with live ammunition only when you intend to shoot it." Colt's attorneys managed to come up with a list of 33 cautions for the Series 80, too.

This can be debated endlessly, and without much gain. I believe the important point to take away from any "condition of carry" discussion is that the ultimate safety device is the user. (Sometimes referred to as the safety between your ears.) If there is a loose nut behind the trigger, an accident is far more likely to happen.

 

[tipoc]

dmazur,

Thanks for the link, I had not seen their listing of Condition 0 before. I do think it's more recent as I don't recall seeing it anywhere until recently. I could be wrong of course so I'll keep an eye out for it.

Interestingly, that book says that Condition 2 is a safe mode of carry, as long as the hammer is fully down. (Ignoring modern concerns of "how do you safely get the pistol in Condition 2?")

Concern about lowering the hammer on a live round for Condition 2 is a more modern safety concern. Decades back folks did not consider it unsafe to do so. I have a couple of older manuals for the Browning Hi-Power which instruct shooters on how to safely do so and Browning used to recommend it as an alternate carry mode.

tipoc

 

[JWJacobVT]

I prefer to carry my BHP in condition 2, when I carry it. I normally carry my S&W 1006, round chambered safety on. This is on and off duty.

 

[LWC]

I carry my Ruger P97DC with the chamber empty, since it has no safety, just a decocker.
If it had a decock safety like an M9 then i would carry with one in the pipe.

Then you are carrying it wrong - The gun is designed to be carried with one in the chamber that's why it has a decocker lever. I carry my P91DC with one in the chamber at all times, it's no different than carrying a revolver - don't pull the trigger and it can't go off.

 

[moooose102]

i always carry with one in the tube. @ 1 point, when i pulled my 45 off my hip (at night) i found that somehow, the safety had been flipped to "fire". i am not sure how or when this happened, but bottom line is, keep your finger off the happy switch and you will be fine. my lcp is always carried with one in the tube also. if you need your weapon, chances are, you are not going to have time to rack one into the chamber.

 

[Justin]

I understand it's all about the user but why do some people say that striker-fired weapons are more prone to NDs?

Only if you're not following basic safety procedure.

the gun was in his hand.. when bo
jumped on him his hand came down
that's when he shot himself

So, what you're describing is basically a freak accident. Had he been more mindful of his circumstances (enthusiastic dog,loaded gun) it would have been easy to avoid ND'ing into his leg.

i was at costello's in cincinnati
they said one in the chamber is a mistake

I don't know what Costello's is (I assume a gun shop.) However, modern pistols are designed to be carried with a round in the chamber.

If you are uncomfortable with doing this, you need to cease carrying immediately, and re-assess your training and/or choice of sidearm.

 

[wrs840]

Decocker vs Decocker Safety

I carry my Ruger P97DC with the chamber empty, since it has no safety, just a decocker.
If it had a decock safety like an M9 then i would carry with one in the pipe.

I don't understand the difference between a "decocker" and a "decock safety". I thought a decocker is itself "the" safety. Could someone who can explain this please help me out?

Thanks,
Les

 

[Gunfighter123]

During a draw {for ANY reason } --- it's finger OFF the trigger ,it's finger OFF the trigger,it's finger OFF the trigger,it's finger OFF the trigger !!!

 

[DrDyno]

This post isn't going to be very popular...

My first CWP was in New York State in 1974. Prior to that I served in Vietnam. Since then, I have owned many firearms and have a current CWP in Florida. Point is, although I am not a police officer nor active military, I have a reasonable amount of hand gun experience.

What troubles me about this thread is the "gunslinger" attitude informing some of your responses. To say that anyone who elects to carry a weapon without a chambered round either needs more training or shouldn't carry at all sounds like a testosterone-driven statement to me. IMO, the police should carry with a round chambered and active military in a combat zone should carry with a round chambered. The rest of us should exercise a great deal of care with this decision.

I have a Glock and I would never carry it with a round chambered. You can all hoot and holler about what a pussy I must be but, then again, you weren't in Pleiku during TET of 1968.

To say that a round-chambered Glock is as safe as a revolver is pure nonsense. It's almost as safe as a hammerless revolver but not nearly as safe as a standard revolver. When a Glock trigger is activated, you can not see and can barely feel internal movement. When a revolver trigger is activated you can see a cylinder turning; you can see a hammer moving; and, you can feel these various stages in the trigger.

As to the basis of this thread, unless you're a police officer or active military (or the gentleman with the disabled hand), carrying your Glock with a round chambered is, IMO, an act of a misinformed ego. There are too many alternative weapons that can be carried chambered and safely decocked to choose a Glock for chambered carry.

Get a grip!

John
St. Petersburg, FL

 

[rcmodel]

I don't understand the difference between a "decocker" and a "decock safety". I thought a decocker is itself "the" safety. Could someone who can explain this please help me out?

Early DA designs like the Walther PPK & P-38, S&W 39 series, etc. used a decocker / safety.

When you put the safety on, it de-cocked the hammer and the safety stayed on, until you manually took it back off safe.

A true de-cocker decocks the gun, then returns to off-safe when you let it go.

It wont stay on safe.

rc

 

[chuckusaret]

I have carried with a round chambered for years and have never had a problem.

 

[Dan Crocker]

You can all hoot and holler about what a pussy I must be but, then again, you weren't in Pleiku during TET of 1968.

Don't assume you're the only one who has seen a war, guy. I really don't care of you do or don't toss one in the tube. I will carry my Glock that way...and there's nothing you can do to stop me!

 

[Sailor99]

DrDyno, being retired from the military, I totally concur with you. All these statements from some of the more, hell, I will just say it, bozos, about not carrying a semi without a round in the chamber would make me laugh, except for the fact that this is the cause of a lot of accidents, and just gives the anti-s more fuel about gun crazed idiots. They also must never have heard of Murphy's Law. I selected both of my semi's partially based on the fact that they have mechanical safetys. I do carry a revolver sometimes, but the next chamber is empty, in case the trigger somehow accidentally gets pulled. And I do have a warped sense of humor, so if I did have to use the revolver, I would love to see the look on the bad guys face when the first trigger pull went click, and then the next one...didn't. I have handled firearms since i was 7, owned my first shotgun at 14, 30-06 at 16, small arms qualified in the military, and qualified on a lot of stuff that made really big booms...but I guess I am a wimp and not qualified since I don't carry one in the chamber.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have no problem with one in the chamber, IF the gun is designed to provide margins of safety.

Not all gun designs are created equal.

 

[Deanimator]

I have a Glock and I would never carry it with a round chambered. You can all hoot and holler about what a pussy I must be but, then again, you weren't in Pleiku during TET of 1968.

And that has precisely ZERO relevance to my carrying for personal defense in Cuyahoga County, Ohio in 2009.

If it DID, I'd be carrying an M16 or an M79, NOT a handgun, or certainly not JUST a handgun.

As to the basis of this thread, unless you're a police officer or active military (or the gentleman with the disabled hand), carrying your Glock with a round chambered is, IMO, an act of a misinformed ego. There are too many alternative weapons that can be carried chambered and safely decocked to choose a Glock for chambered carry.

Carrying a Glock without a chambered round, for the "reasons" you state, is an act of timidity, and fundamental lack of understanding of your firearm.

You carry any way you want. As for me, I don't plan to find out whether I can chamber a round one handed while trying to fend off somebody with a claw hammer or a butcher knife, nevermind a firearm.

 

[rainbowbob]

the gun was in his hand.. when bo
jumped on him his hand came down
that's when he shot himself

Sorry...but "his hand came down" still doesn't explain how your cousin's finger activated the trigger. I am unable to envision a scenario - dog or not - in which a finger OUTSIDE the trigger guard gets INSIDE the trigger guard and pulls the trigger.

This story only makes sense if your cousin's finger was inside the trigger guard when the dog jumped on him. In which case, the ND had nothing to do with carrying a round in the chamber, nothing to do with the dog, and EVERYTHING to do with poor gun handling protocols.

I have a Glock and I would never carry it with a round chambered. You can all hoot and holler about what a pussy I must be but, then again, you weren't in Pleiku during TET of 1968.

Ya got me there DrDyno...I wasn't in Pleiku in 1968 - so I guess my opinion is invalidated. Come to think of it...I don't even own a bottom-feeder - so what do I know?

All I know is that my revolver goes bang when I pull the trigger. I wouldn't carry a firearm that didn't. What would be the point? A violent assault can happen in the blink of an eye. It is likely you won't have the time - or a free hand - to chamber a round. I hope NEVER to have to use my firearm under duress. But if I do - I want it to respond INSTANTLY. That makes me a "gunslinger"?

According to your logic, not carrying a firearm at all would be MUCH safer. Carry yours however you want - or not at all - but don't insult those who insist on being prepared to defend themselves and their loved ones against criminal violence.