CCI #34 primer question

[OlympicViking]

Hi everyone!

I have a box of 1000 CCI #34 primers that were purchased in error (the store had them on the same shelf as #41). Are these primers safe to use in bolt-action rifles? I know these are geared towards AR-10s and similar "battle rifles", but our only rifles that use only large rifle primers are a Remington 700 in 30-06 and a Ruger 77 in 7mm-08.

Of course I know to start low and work up when switching primers. I just want to make sure it's safe.

 

[MEHavey]

Consider them CCI large rifle magnum.
No big deal at all.
Work up load accordingly.

 

[Keyfer 55]

They are good primers! Made for military.
Flooting firing pins, they are thicker than a standard primer. Some sporting rifles hammer springs are not strong enough to fire those kind of primers .I have a Browning BAR that won't fire Lake City ammo consistent, the hammer not strong enough.
Test them in an empty case to see if your gun will fire them. Good Luck!!

 

[Slamfire]

I ran a primer test. I had purchased Wolf and Tula7.62 primers and wanted to see how they compared to my other primers. Tula 7.62 were advertised to be the same insensitivity as CCI #34’s, which are a mil spec primer. Mil spec primers are less sensitive than commercial primers, due to a combination of a thick cup, different primer mix, and some other factors. They exist because military weapons often have heavy free floating firing pins. Heavy free floating firing pins have a tendency to ignite sensitive primers before the trigger is pulled. An accidental discharge will range from embarrassing to fatal accident.

My load is a standard match load in the Garand. Garands are not magnums and the loads they fire are in today’s world, mild. Heavier loads, powders like IMR 4350, will over accelerate parts in the Garands leading to malfunctions and long term will damage parts.

What I saw in my test, holding case, bullet, powder the same, was that velocities and group sizes change with change of primer.

My old standby of the nickel plated WLR and CCI #34’s shot very well, the Wolf and Tula primers also shot very well. I was disappointed in the groups with Federal primers. I have been getting excellent results with Federal primers with IMR 4350, 150 grain bullets, in the 30-06. Maybe it was just the day.

Because of their sensitivity, I do not recommend Federal primers in Garands. Federals are the most sensitive primer on the market and the most slamfiring primer ever in Garands/M1a’s. I use my Federals in bolt guns and they shoot fine. No adequately designed and maintained rifle should misfire with #34's, but one with a weak mainspring could. I won't use them in my 35 Whelen because I have had misfires with standard primers in that cartridge, the 35 Whelen has a slight shoulder and I am of the opinion that the slight shoulder allows the cartridge to be driven in as the firing pin hits the primer. I installed Wolff extra strength mainsprings and sized the cases to zero head space in my 35 Whelens, and I am using Federal primers. But for my 30-06, 270 Win, etc, never had an issue with a #34. I also wonder about the magnum claims, my velocities are not all that different from standard primers.

So I can say, primers make a difference. But if I varied powder charge with each primer, those primers that gave disappointing groups the group sizes might have improved. Conducting a test like that would have taken lots of work, but I am confident to say, group sizes change with primer changes.


30-06 Primer Test

Colombian Mauser Match 26" Wilson match barrel

174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps
14 Nov 2011 T = 68 °F

Ave Vel = 2698
Std Dev = 51
ES = 117
High = 2771
Low = 2654
N = 5

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI #34 OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2645
Std Dev = 12
ES = 42
High = 2671
Low = 2629
N = 10

Very good group

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Tula 7.62 lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2665
Std Dev = 9
ES = 28
High = 2677
Low = 2649
N = 10

Excellent Group

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Wolf NCLR lot 18-09 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2656
Std Dev = 15
ES = 36
High = 2677
Low = 2641
N = 9

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Fed 210S OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2656
Std Dev = 13
ES = 34
High = 2674
Low = 2640
N = 10

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM WLR (Nickle) OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2665
Std Dev = 18
ES = 60
High = 2696
Low = 2636
N = 10

Excellent group


174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI200 OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F


Ave Vel = 2680
Std Dev = 14
ES = 56
High = 2712
Low = 2656
N = 10

V. Good group

M1 Garand BMR Receiver Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist

150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball

14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F

Ave Vel = 2545
Std Dev = 20
ES = 68
Low = 2513
High = 2581
N= 8

174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2592
Std Dev = 28
ES = 103
High = 2647
Low = 2544
N = 10


174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI #34 OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2632
Std Dev = 20
ES = 60
High = 2671
Low = 2611
N = 10


174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Tula 7.62 lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2582
Std Dev = 15
ES = 49
High = 2602
Low = 2553
N = 10

excellent group


174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Wolf NCLR lot 18-09 OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F


Ave Vel = 2607
Std Dev = 17
ES = 57
High = 2642
Low = 2585
N = 10

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM WLR (Nickle) OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2650
Std Dev = 19
ES = 68
High = 2688
Low = 2620
N = 10

Very good group

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI200 OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2599
Std Dev = 22
ES = 75
High = 2637
Low = 2562
N= 10

Very good group

 

[Charlie98]

As was mentioned, yes, they will work fine in your bolt guns, etc. They are considered a magnum primer, as Slamfire suggests there may be some differences in your load, all else being equal.

I ran a informal test with H335 and magnum and standard primers in my AR, the Speer manual suggests a magnum primer with H335 because it's a ball powder. What I found was I got a touch more velocity and a much narrower SD with the standard primer than the magnum primer. I did not measure accuracy. I continue to use the #34 and #41 primers where they are appropriate, however.

 

[Galil5.56]

I have pretty much standardized using #34's because of all of the military LRP using semi-auto rifles I load for, ESPECIALLY my 7.5x54, MAS 49/56 (God what a great rifle)... You could use its firing pin for a crowbar, it's free-floating, heavy, and massive. Never an issue with the MAS 49/56, SVT-40, AG-42, and Argentine FN-49 in 7.62x51 (after replacing the orig 1 pc FP with a two piece). I also find mag primers, especially when using ball propellant in other LRP applications to produce superior groups, by cutting down on fliers in my bolt guns.

Lots of love too for CCI 41/450 Mag primers in my .30 carbine, and Galil ARM in 5.56... Heck, I even used them in my Beretta M9 to test if its 'D' mainspring install would light any primer, I could pretty much conceivably use (passed with flying colors)... Of course, my UZI could dimple a titanium primer I bet . Good luck OV with these great primers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said, the #34 primers are not all that different than normal magnum primers so yes, you can use them in your Rem 700. The only reason I don't use them in a bolt action rifle is I also load for an M1 and they cost too much to "waste" in a bolt action rifle. They won't create a nuclear explosion and who knows, they might produce a more accurate load than with standard primers. (which powder are you using)

 

[OlympicViking]

I use mainly Varget, IMR 4895, 4064, 8208 XBR in the 7-08. My dad uses IMR 4895 and H4350 in his 06.

 

[Reloadron]

From our friends at CCI:

Ron, here are the differences in the 2 primers. So the anvil angle change is the difference, this keeps the free floating firing pins from causing slam-fires in AR style platforms. This does make it so that a light strike will have a less of a change of going off.

CCI-250............................ Magnum primer, Mag primer mix, thick cup, standard anvil.
#34/7.62MM................... Mil. Spec. primer, thick cup, magnum primer charge, angle of anvil change.

Justin M./Technical Service Rep.
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
(800)379-1732

So as mentioned the CCI #34 is a large rifle magnum primer and the main difference is the angle of the anvil is changed. I use them in bolt guns as well as my M1A and AR 10 guns. Just work up your loads like you would with any other primer.

Ron

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I use mainly Varget, IMR 4895, 4064, 8208 XBR in the 7-08. My dad uses IMR 4895 and H4350 in his 06.

While none of those powders require a magnum class primer I see no problem with using them.

Please let me know how well they work with H4350 ion your 30-06. That's the powder I use most in my '06 ammo but for the M1.

 

[Load Master]

I went through a number of test with primers a while back. The cups in the 34's I had are the same as the BR. The anvil was where the difference was. Less sensitive because of a greater distance between the cup and the anvil after being seated.



In this photo you can see the difference in the anvils on the picture to the right.