CCW Blackpowder pistol?

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ok, i'll play along (even if the premise of the original question and loopholes is faulty)

If I had to carry a BP I would carry my 1858 sheriffs model (if your worried about needing more rounds, you could carry a spare capped cylinder (AKA pale Rider reload) or a second "Johnny's new pistol" in your belt.

That new snubby Johnny just made might be too pretty to shoot though.

d
 
As a police trainer I have been in hundreds of training gun fights against police officers. While the scenario sometimes called for a high round count most could have been resolved with 5 shots or less.
That being said, as a CCW instructor I do not recommend any form of single action firearm for concealed carry. Single action guns require too much fine motor movement to operate and fine motor control is one of the first things you lose under stress.
In the spirit of the original question, if I were limited to a C&B handgun I would choose a Colt Pocket Police for light clothing and a Lemat in a shoulder rig under a coat.
I really wish someone would come out with a reliable copy of the figure 8 revolver. That would be a interesting option.

Ironhand
 
I love my Black Powder revolvers. But I would not recommend a saddle horse for a Highway Patrol pursuit vehicle. And I would not recommend BP revolvers as defensive or offensive weapons in today's World. :)
 
Remember back when percussion revolvers were the latest . Many of these pistols were carried concealed and got the job done very efficiently , killed thousands of people. Funny how now a days some say these are poor weapons to conceal and carry.
 
Remember back when percussion revolvers were the latest . Many of these pistols were carried concealed and got the job done very efficiently , killed thousands of people. Funny how now a days some say these are poor weapons to conceal and carry.
yep I agree plus theres one on this forum the other day said the 45 colt wasn't powerful enough to kill human's,deer,hogs,etc! I thought wow it did it for over a hundred forty four years lol!!
 
Remember back when percussion revolvers were the latest . Many of these pistols were carried concealed and got the job done very efficiently , killed thousands of people. Funny how now a days some say these are poor weapons to conceal and carry.

Compared to modern weapons and ammo they aren't as good, and even though, such as my own which have been 100% reliable once I found proper fitting caps (Rem #10), there still is the chance that a cap can fall off, not be seated well and require a second strike, or get caught up in the action, as well as the ever so slight chance as with any revolver that an issue can happen (modern revolvers aren't 100% reliable either). And then I've read how the various springs used in these repros are known to break eventually often enough.

New springs, or better yet, replacement springs negate this issue, and maybe the cap issues mentioned might be about nil, it can't be 100% excluded. So far my two have been more reliable than several autoloaders, even ones of high quality such as Kimber, which was the most pathetic I've seen yet along with my father's Automag II before he realized AMT stated it required Winchester ammo. Regardless nothing manmade is 100% reliable.

And then there's the large cloud of smoke, which would become an issue I'd think indoors, and the fireball that would certainly mess with your sight in the dark. This can be an issue with a lot of modern propellants too, but the fireball is nowhere near as big.

Most people would prefer to use a HP, especially one that is bonded, though the old school 125 JHP in the .357 was so registering because it turned into shrapnel.

A ball seems slightly better than the average FMJ but still usually leaves a small wound channel. A SWC or WFN is much better but still doesn't create as much damage as a JHP, though it will out penetrate it. Of course this is if the soft lead doesn't expand, which is something I've pursued (what it takes).

I've considered having HPs made out of a mold and having the ram tapped for a pin, though this isn't really with CCW in mind.

Quite frankly a .45 ACP or .44 Spl with a modern JHP is superior
even to a SWC/WFN from our .44's. But I feel my 170 or 195 grn WFN is no less effective than a .38 Spl JHP+P and possibly more so, but then I'm also biased towards larger calibers and a SWC or WFN leaves a larger wound track than the caliber, which is why I'd take one over a ball any and every day. Handgun hog hunters use hardcast WFN boolits almost exclusively because of this (wound + excellent penetration).

All this to say a cap n ball is most certainly effective, especially with a larger caliber, but still isn't as nasty as the same caliber with a modern JHP. Useful? Certainly. As good as modern? Not really. But if this is a choice you make then consider the shortcomings.
 
yep I agree plus theres one on this forum the other day said the 45 colt wasn't powerful enough to kill human's,deer,hogs,etc! I thought wow it did it for over a hundred forty four years lol!!

Indeed. It would be absolutely ridiculous to claim otherwise, and why I view our .44/.45 cal repros more than adequate IF the proper powders are used. A max charge isn't even necessary to achieve what modern ammo provides, which is more than effective and still hotter than the 28-30 grn 2F ammo the .45 Colt became.

As we can see 25 grns of 3F Triple 7 (a 15% reduced load with hardly any compression to speak of, neither of which is necessary) achieves nearly 500 ft/lbs with the Kaido 255 grn bullet (modified Lee Colt bullet), as does 30 grns with the 220 grn Lee conical.

And Kaido's 240 grn version meant for the repros has gone nose to tail through an adult hog and dropped it DRT. No more is necessary unless you are one of those longer range hunters and want a flatter trajectory.
 
Compared to modern weapons and ammo they aren't as good, and even though, such as my own which have been 100% reliable once I found proper fitting caps (Rem #10), there still is the chance that a cap can fall off, not be seated well and require a second strike, or get caught up in the action, as well as the ever so slight chance as with any revolver that an issue can happen (modern revolvers aren't 100% reliable either). And then I've read how the various springs used in these repros are known to break eventually often enough.

New springs, or better yet, replacement springs negate this issue, and maybe the cap issues mentioned might be about nil, it can't be 100% excluded. So far my two have been more reliable than several autoloaders, even ones of high quality such as Kimber, which was the most pathetic I've seen yet along with my father's Automag II before he realized AMT stated it required Winchester ammo. Regardless nothing manmade is 100% reliable.

And then there's the large cloud of smoke, which would become an issue I'd think indoors, and the fireball that would certainly mess with your sight in the dark. This can be an issue with a lot of modern propellants too, but the fireball is nowhere near as big.

Most people would prefer to use a HP, especially one that is bonded, though the old school 125 JHP in the .357 was so registering because it turned into shrapnel.

A ball seems slightly better than the average FMJ but still usually leaves a small wound channel. A SWC or WFN is much better but still doesn't create as much damage as a JHP, though it will out penetrate it. Of course this is if the soft lead doesn't expand, which is something I've pursued (what it takes).

I've considered having HPs made out of a mold and having the ram tapped for a pin, though this isn't really with CCW in mind.

Quite frankly a .45 ACP or .44 Spl with a modern JHP is superior
even to a SWC/WFN from our .44's. But I feel my 170 or 195 grn WFN is no less effective than a .38 Spl JHP+P and possibly more so, but then I'm also biased towards larger calibers and a SWC or WFN leaves a larger wound track than the caliber, which is why I'd take one over a ball any and every day. Handgun hog hunters use hardcast WFN boolits almost exclusively because of this (wound + excellent penetration).

All this to say a cap n ball is most certainly effective, especially with a larger caliber, but still isn't as nasty as the same caliber with a modern JHP. Useful? Certainly. As good as modern? Not really. But if this is a choice you make then consider the shortcomings.

Your preaching to the choir about modern weapons .I'm retired military E-8 . Someday someone will say the modern weapons we have now won't be the best for CCW. How about a pistol in the 1000 watt range in the future . But as for. Black powder revolvers I'd rather get hit by a 38 cal. Verses a Minnie bullet from a black powder weapon or a round or conical. Hell. I shudder to think getting shot by a Ruger old army .45 conical or even my Clements conversion in 250 gr conical .50. Or a walker dragoon with all that black powder in those deep cylinders. Or the story about some old farmer with a rabbit eared black powder double barrel shotgun taking out a intruder who has a .45 auto. Heh. Heh
 
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So, I'm wondering about how long a charge can be kept in a C&B revolver?
Concealed Carry must have been the primary purpose for the civilian owned Pocket Colts, so how long was considered practical? What circumstances warranted reloading, cleaning, lubricating or other service?
"Back in the Day" when C&B's were the modern choice, city people would take their pistol to a gunsmith to have the charges pulled and the gun reloaded (presuming they were not generally shooting type people).
How often did the police recharge their revolvers?
I have a couple of Colt replicas which are holding charges several years old, un-fired from a BP hunting trip.
I'll probably shoot them when the snow is gone, a reliability test as they say...
 
This summer I kept a Ruger old army loaded for 6 months and capped, fired every round . I've heard they can keep powder good in revolver for years. Capped that long I didn't hear if it was or not. Great grandfather said he has heard they used melted wax to seal chambers where caps go.
 
Yeah.. I was thinking about this thread again today... And immediately it popped into mind;

"Man.. All those poor bastards who died from revolver wounds in the War Against Northern Aggression. If ONLY someone from our modern age had just BEEN there to tell them 'Guy, guys... It OK! Its ONLY BLACK POWDER!' "

Is it possible to roll ones eyes... WHILE shaking ones head at the same time?? LOL
 
Compared to modern weapons and ammo they aren't as good, and even though, such as my own which have been 100% reliable once I found proper fitting caps (Rem #10), there still is the chance that a cap can fall off, not be seated well and require a second strike, or get caught up in the action, as well as the ever so slight chance as with any revolver that an issue can happen (modern revolvers aren't 100% reliable either). And then I've read how the various springs used in these repros are known to break eventually often enough.

New springs, or better yet, replacement springs negate this issue, and maybe the cap issues mentioned might be about nil, it can't be 100% excluded. So far my two have been more reliable than several autoloaders, even ones of high quality such as Kimber, which was the most pathetic I've seen yet along with my father's Automag II before he realized AMT stated it required Winchester ammo. Regardless nothing manmade is 100% reliable.

And then there's the large cloud of smoke, which would become an issue I'd think indoors, and the fireball that would certainly mess with your sight in the dark. This can be an issue with a lot of modern propellants too, but the fireball is nowhere near as big.

Most people would prefer to use a HP, especially one that is bonded, though the old school 125 JHP in the .357 was so registering because it turned into shrapnel.

A ball seems slightly better than the average FMJ but still usually leaves a small wound channel. A SWC or WFN is much better but still doesn't create as much damage as a JHP, though it will out penetrate it. Of course this is if the soft lead doesn't expand, which is something I've pursued (what it takes).

I've considered having HPs made out of a mold and having the ram tapped for a pin, though this isn't really with CCW in mind.

Quite frankly a .45 ACP or .44 Spl with a modern JHP is superior
even to a SWC/WFN from our .44's. But I feel my 170 or 195 grn WFN is no less effective than a .38 Spl JHP+P and possibly more so, but then I'm also biased towards larger calibers and a SWC or WFN leaves a larger wound track than the caliber, which is why I'd take one over a ball any and every day. Handgun hog hunters use hardcast WFN boolits almost exclusively because of this (wound + excellent penetration).

All this to say a cap n ball is most certainly effective, especially with a larger caliber, but still isn't as nasty as the same caliber with a modern JHP. Useful? Certainly. As good as modern? Not really. But if this is a choice you make then consider the shortcomings.
Oh I forgot my Ruger .50 cal 50 gr of 777 I bet is almost equal to or better than a 44 special or a 45 . Just slower and smokier
 
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Ive kept my Pietta Remington loaded AND capped for roughly 6mos with no problems whatsoever. No wax, just tight caps and tight WFN rounds that rodwha talks about.
 
Yeah.. I was thinking about this thread again today... And immediately it popped into mind;

"Man.. All those poor bastards who died from revolver wounds in the War Against Northern Aggression. If ONLY someone from our modern age had just BEEN there to tell them 'Guy, guys... It OK! Its ONLY BLACK POWDER!' "

Is it possible to roll ones eyes... WHILE shaking ones head at the same time?? LOL
I live here in Pa and go to Gettysburg a lot and horror stories of Minnie balls and buck and ball. Rounds taking off legs and arms. Only black powder
 
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So, I'm wondering about how long a charge can be kept in a C&B revolver?
Concealed Carry must have been the primary purpose for the civilian owned Pocket Colts, so how long was considered practical? What circumstances warranted reloading, cleaning, lubricating or other service?
"Back in the Day" when C&B's were the modern choice, city people would take their pistol to a gunsmith to have the charges pulled and the gun reloaded (presuming they were not generally shooting type people).
How often did the police recharge their revolvers?
I have a couple of Colt replicas which are holding charges several years old, un-fired from a BP hunting trip.
I'll probably shoot them when the snow is gone, a reliability test as they say...

Black powder never degrades. Wet is another story...

I always reloaded my Remington, always with T7, "known to degrade" and would go to the range no less than once a month and never had an issue.

But then I loaded up and moved to a place that doesn't have a convenient outdoor range. It's been about 2 1/2 years. I'm quite curious.
 
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