JerryM
Member
A handgun would not be effective against what the pirates have.
Jerry
Jerry
CCW, cruise ships and piracy
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Rattlehead
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IANAL, and I certainly am not one focused on international trade, but I'm pretty sure export of a firearm without approval and maneuvering through the appropriate amount of red tape would violate ITAR.
Semi-auto firearms up to 50 caliber are a cat 1 controlled item on the US Munitions List and are subject to ITAR export restriction. (http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf) I didn't trip through all the legalese, but I'd wager a beer that your CCW handgun doesn't fall under some kind of crazy exemption.
Hello all - been lurking here for a while, though it was time to join the conversation as I spent four years working on a cruise ship.
Your major security concern on the ship will be the other guests, followed by the crew; unless you are on one of the few ships sailing off the horn of Africa piracy is not a concern.
As for crime on board, it is rare, but incidents happen. Most involve theft, though assaults do happen (usually fueled by alcohol) as well as sexual assault. The most serious incidents of assault I was aware of all happened off of the ship, in port (many Caribbean islands, once you clear the tourist areas, are very poor and often dangerous, even the USVI).
Taking weapons of any kind onto the ship is obviously forbidden; thankfully the TSA hasn't gotten into the business of ship security (yet) so no "naked" scanners or enhanced pat downs required, but security is fairly effective. The cruise line I worked for had plenty of ex-Ghurka and ex-Israeli military guys running the operation, and they were serious people. If you are involved in a crime (possession of illegal drugs or destruction of property were also common) you will be handed over to the local authorities. I hear Mexican jail is no fun.
My understanding is that any crime committed on a ship sailing out of a US port and involving an American citizen will be investigated by the FBI, but again these are rare (the FBI's website :"From Fiscal Year 2000 to mid-2005, the FBI opened 305 criminal cases, more than half of them assaults...a fraction of the 10 million Americans traveling this year on vessels in international waters...")
I doubt that CCW will ever be allowed on any cruise ship, even those flagged in the USA (most are indeed Bahamian, Panamanian, etc. where gun laws are very, very different). I can say though that in four years I never once felt unsafe onboard (well except for being on the outer decks during a monster storm in Alaska, but CCW wouldn't have helped there!) but of course you can always spend your vacation elsewhere.
If you do choose to go cruising, keep your eyes open on-shore to avoid problems, lock your valuables in the room safe, don't be an angry drunk, and please please please wash your hands with soap and hot water after every trip to the bathroom and before every meal - the most likely "assault" you will face is from GI illness so protect yourself! Hand sanitizer is not enough - it's the .22LR of GI protection
Oh, and on the comment that cruise ships don't carry 10,000 people... the Royal Caribbean Oasis of the Seas and Allure of the Seas each can carry over 6000 guests and 2100 crew, so its getting close!
Your major security concern on the ship will be the other guests, followed by the crew; unless you are on one of the few ships sailing off the horn of Africa piracy is not a concern.
As for crime on board, it is rare, but incidents happen. Most involve theft, though assaults do happen (usually fueled by alcohol) as well as sexual assault. The most serious incidents of assault I was aware of all happened off of the ship, in port (many Caribbean islands, once you clear the tourist areas, are very poor and often dangerous, even the USVI).
Taking weapons of any kind onto the ship is obviously forbidden; thankfully the TSA hasn't gotten into the business of ship security (yet) so no "naked" scanners or enhanced pat downs required, but security is fairly effective. The cruise line I worked for had plenty of ex-Ghurka and ex-Israeli military guys running the operation, and they were serious people. If you are involved in a crime (possession of illegal drugs or destruction of property were also common) you will be handed over to the local authorities. I hear Mexican jail is no fun.
My understanding is that any crime committed on a ship sailing out of a US port and involving an American citizen will be investigated by the FBI, but again these are rare (the FBI's website :"From Fiscal Year 2000 to mid-2005, the FBI opened 305 criminal cases, more than half of them assaults...a fraction of the 10 million Americans traveling this year on vessels in international waters...")
I doubt that CCW will ever be allowed on any cruise ship, even those flagged in the USA (most are indeed Bahamian, Panamanian, etc. where gun laws are very, very different). I can say though that in four years I never once felt unsafe onboard (well except for being on the outer decks during a monster storm in Alaska, but CCW wouldn't have helped there!) but of course you can always spend your vacation elsewhere.
If you do choose to go cruising, keep your eyes open on-shore to avoid problems, lock your valuables in the room safe, don't be an angry drunk, and please please please wash your hands with soap and hot water after every trip to the bathroom and before every meal - the most likely "assault" you will face is from GI illness so protect yourself! Hand sanitizer is not enough - it's the .22LR of GI protection
Oh, and on the comment that cruise ships don't carry 10,000 people... the Royal Caribbean Oasis of the Seas and Allure of the Seas each can carry over 6000 guests and 2100 crew, so its getting close!
oneounceload
member
Weapons are not allowed on the ship, (just like bringing them into the cabin of an airliner)
If you are really that paranoid, cancel the cruise and stay home.
There have been NO pirate attacks on ships in the Carib.
They have security on the ship; you can't take it OFF the ship in another country's port; you can't even enter ports like the Port of Miami to get ON your cruise ship with any weapons in your vehicle - falls under Homeland Security
Not everywhere you go are there pirates, criminals, or others, waiting to destroy you.
If you are really that paranoid, cancel the cruise and stay home.
There have been NO pirate attacks on ships in the Carib.
They have security on the ship; you can't take it OFF the ship in another country's port; you can't even enter ports like the Port of Miami to get ON your cruise ship with any weapons in your vehicle - falls under Homeland Security
Not everywhere you go are there pirates, criminals, or others, waiting to destroy you.
Stevie-Ray
Member
I've been on seven cruises and not once did I miss my sidearm. I must say, I don't feel that way at home.
Then again, there was one time in Caracas Venezuela. In order for me to go back there, you'd have to reimburse me for the entire cruise.
Then again, there was one time in Caracas Venezuela. In order for me to go back there, you'd have to reimburse me for the entire cruise.
The Port of NY has three cruise ports (Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Bayonne). Concealed carry in NY and NJ is extremely limited, so unless you do live in those states AND have a CCW permit in those states, you would be violating state/city laws just by crossing the border to board the ship. Then the local LEOs would arrest you for the various crimes associated with having a pistol there.
As already said, the ships restrict whatever they want (knives, guns, and hard booze) to keep everyone safe on board. So if you made it to security, they would stop you (or your checked bag) and summon a local LEO.
If by some chance you made it on the ship and it left US waters, you would then have the pleasure of sitting in a Customs and Border Protection holding cell while they decided what to charge you with for either exporting/importing a firearm. Even if they did not bring any federal charges, they would likely hand you over to the LEOs anyway (see #1).
Lastly, if pirates did seize a cruise ship carry a few thousand passengers and crew, most people probably wouldn't even know it, because the pirates would focus on the bridge and let the crew deal with the passengers throughout the rest of the ship. And like already said, one pistol versus a team of pirates has little impact.
As already said, the ships restrict whatever they want (knives, guns, and hard booze) to keep everyone safe on board. So if you made it to security, they would stop you (or your checked bag) and summon a local LEO.
If by some chance you made it on the ship and it left US waters, you would then have the pleasure of sitting in a Customs and Border Protection holding cell while they decided what to charge you with for either exporting/importing a firearm. Even if they did not bring any federal charges, they would likely hand you over to the LEOs anyway (see #1).
Lastly, if pirates did seize a cruise ship carry a few thousand passengers and crew, most people probably wouldn't even know it, because the pirates would focus on the bridge and let the crew deal with the passengers throughout the rest of the ship. And like already said, one pistol versus a team of pirates has little impact.
monet61
Member
With all respect, this is a strange subject.
If a person can't feel safe enough without a gun on a pleasure cruise, stay home.
PILMAN
Member
I asked security on Carnival Cruise lines when I went on the Destination, it was a no go.
rscalzo
Member
I would think being released from the Liberian prison would concern me a bit more than ownership issues.
parsimonious_instead
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There are occasional (and I mean very occasional) disappearances of cruise ship passengers while at sea. Some of them are people who behave with drunken stupidity while near a railing and fall overboard. Some of them are "newlywed murders." In both of those cases, CCW wouldn't make much difference at all. Occasionally, a passenger is murdered either by a fellow passenger or a crew member. These are probably incidents fueled by drunkenness, or are opportunistic crimes, perhaps a bungled attempt to steal a passenger's valuables that somehow goes awry. But such things are extremely rare and again, CCW wouldn't probably make much of a difference.
A previous poster mentioned the ban on hard booze as a security measure. I think that's only partly true. It's mostly to keep the passengers buying alcohol on the ship, where they make very high profits.
MisterMike
Member
Those of you who think Gilligan is in charge of ship security don't quite understand. All the cruise lines have serious anti-terrorism programs, in part made up of guys who could kill any ten of us with a Popsicle stick in about a half second.
Seriously, they are tuned in to the threat, and are equipped to handle things.
Seriously, they are tuned in to the threat, and are equipped to handle things.
Travis McGee
Member
The kitchen and catering services area of any cruise ship, hotel etc is a smorgasboard of cutlery. If you need a serious Tueller-range weapon inside a large security perimeter, that's your best bet if you are of that bent.
I'm a novelist. They do stuff like that in my books. But I see no reason why not...
I'm a novelist. They do stuff like that in my books. But I see no reason why not...
shootingthebreeze
Member
First off one cannot carry a weapon on board a cruise ship. Not allowed. I have been on cruises and weapons are forbidden.
Second, as a CPL carrier YOU ARE NOT POLICE OR MILITARY. You're not carrying to render assistance-in Michigan the law is clear one can only deploy a firearm if personally threatened by imminent threat of lethal force or rape.
I have been on many cruises and actually wrote and published a novel on nuclear terrorism on a cruise ship. Many cruise captains have either belonged to a navy of their country or are naval reservists as well as cruise captains. I suspect that cruise lines carry an arsenal on board-security is extremely tight one just has to walk on a Royal Carribean cruise ship and see cameras everywhere. I believe their security is top notch and can responsd to any threat to the ship.
So relax, enjoy your cruise and let the experts handle security and pilot the ship. They know what to do. The navigation equipment now is so sophisticated to include countermeasures such as Coast Guard proximity and naval vessels in the area that an attack will be very difficult.
As far as my novel- well, the terrorists had inside help-and, were able to smuggle a nuclear device on board-however, again, the nuclear countermeasures today are so sophisticated (NEST) that it would be extremely difficult to have a nuclear device in the open without any cloaking. Cloaking is brought up in my novel and there are methods to cloak a nuke-that's part of good fiction, backing fiction with fact. But it would be extremely difficult to hide.
But again, leave your firearm at home. I have complete confidence in the security of cruise lines-they know what they're doing, most of the officers are ex military-so, relax.
Second, as a CPL carrier YOU ARE NOT POLICE OR MILITARY. You're not carrying to render assistance-in Michigan the law is clear one can only deploy a firearm if personally threatened by imminent threat of lethal force or rape.
I have been on many cruises and actually wrote and published a novel on nuclear terrorism on a cruise ship. Many cruise captains have either belonged to a navy of their country or are naval reservists as well as cruise captains. I suspect that cruise lines carry an arsenal on board-security is extremely tight one just has to walk on a Royal Carribean cruise ship and see cameras everywhere. I believe their security is top notch and can responsd to any threat to the ship.
So relax, enjoy your cruise and let the experts handle security and pilot the ship. They know what to do. The navigation equipment now is so sophisticated to include countermeasures such as Coast Guard proximity and naval vessels in the area that an attack will be very difficult.
As far as my novel- well, the terrorists had inside help-and, were able to smuggle a nuclear device on board-however, again, the nuclear countermeasures today are so sophisticated (NEST) that it would be extremely difficult to have a nuclear device in the open without any cloaking. Cloaking is brought up in my novel and there are methods to cloak a nuke-that's part of good fiction, backing fiction with fact. But it would be extremely difficult to hide.
But again, leave your firearm at home. I have complete confidence in the security of cruise lines-they know what they're doing, most of the officers are ex military-so, relax.
Apocalypse-Now
Member
the pirates of the Caribbean have nukes?
oneounceload
member
On one cruise we had 12 different brands of rum lined up in the window - the room steward finally showed us where the ice machine was so we could get it on our own. Getting booze on is easy.....getting a weapon will get you arrested
The only danger on the ship is the little old lady you accidentally cut in front of in the buffet line
preachnhunt
Member
We have been on many cruises and only once had an issue where another passenger was making unwelcome contact with my wife and actually stalking her about the ship. A gun would not have been helpful,but I do think the ship company should take extra diligence in defending passengers since we are restrained from defending ourselves as effectively as we otherwise might.
The more serious problem I had was we parked in the terminal and there was a sign saying that possession of a firearm past that point was a federal offense. What if I had decided to be armed on the trip from home to the port only to discover I could not leave the weapon in my car during the voyage?
The more serious problem I had was we parked in the terminal and there was a sign saying that possession of a firearm past that point was a federal offense. What if I had decided to be armed on the trip from home to the port only to discover I could not leave the weapon in my car during the voyage?
Nathanael_Greene
Member
Maybe they think "Pirates of the Caribbean" was a documentary.
answerguy
Member
I would like to carry my weapon with me on a cruise ship but mostly because I fly to Florida a day or two early before the crusie departs and want it for my time on land. If allowed to carry it onto a ship it's obvious you wouldn't want to get caught with it on you in a foreign land. Although I would feel much better with it in some parts of Jamaica for example.
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