CCW for High School teachers

[Teachu2]

After months of work, the largest comprehensive high school district in California changed the policy today. Detailed requirements have yet to be released, but it is a step forward.

http://bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/khsd-ccw-vote

My wife and I are both teachers in this district, and both hold CCW permits.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Congrats.

It's quite unbelievable for that to happen in Cali but I'm glad for you and the residents of that particular community.

 

[gojuice101]

I too am surprised to see that in California, but it is good to see. Always glad to see some progress in places like California, however small it is.

 

[DMK]

Honestly, that's a much more important win than "assault weapons" anyway.

A handgun with you 24/7 will be a lot more likely to save your life than an AR15 in the car/truck.

 

[drband]

I taught for 34 years. I would have CCW'd if allowed. It just makes sense.

 

[rskent]

How would you carry in a classroom setting?

I have never been a classroom teacher, but I cannot think of a good way to carry standing in front of a class full of kids. It would seem to me that sooner or later they would figure it out, and some parent would make a big deal out of it.

My aunt was a teacher in a school that had an active shooter event. So, I know it can happen and I get why you would want to be prepared. I just don’t see a good way.

 

[DMK]

IWB Concealed is concealed

 

[dwjwin50]

Again, the coast of California is where the majority liberals live, the interior is where the conservatives are. I know teachers that keep a pistol locked in their desk drawer if needed.

 

[1911 guy]

If you are willing to make concessions in wardrobe, it is possible to conceal a rather large handgun. Most people don't worry much about concealment because they are passing most people they encounter rather quickly and those people are occupied with other things. However, when you are around the same people for an extended period of time, stuffing a pistol in your "skinny jeans" isn't going to cut it. A good holster, an even better belt and dress around the gun, rather than insist the gun fit into your sartorial excellence. I can't speak to women's wardrobes, but it's fairly easy for a man in a professional setting to conceal some serious hardware. Sport coats and suits are a boon to CCW of the male persuasion.

And yes, this is both surprising and wonderful news.

 

[Teachu2]

How would you carry in a classroom setting?

I have never been a classroom teacher, but I cannot think of a good way to carry standing in front of a class full of kids. It would seem to me that sooner or later they would figure it out, and some parent would make a big deal out of it.

My aunt was a teacher in a school that had an active shooter event. So, I know it can happen and I get why you would want to be prepared. I just don’t see a good way.

My Shield in an ankle holster is really hard to spot - even if you know it's there. You have to remember, classroom teachers should be the last line of defense. We're not on patrol, and will probably have a bit of warning. Quick draw is not a priority.

My attire could be modified to conceal a 1911 if needed.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I think it's a wonderful idea!
I haven't read.... What about support staff? Operations and Maintenance?
Those are the people that are probably more inclined to be "gun savvy"

Edit: never mind, I read it.

I'm shocked and delighted that they opted to do this.

 

[Elkins45]

Why just high school?

 

[Teachu2]

Why just high school?

It's a high school district. There are several elementary school districts that feed into the 18 comprehensive high schools in KHSD. The elementary districts have their own Boards.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I am absolutely stunned. Bakersfield??? Wow!

Mike

 

[buflow]

A good start, teachers have great concern for the students or would be working in a higher paying field. Teachers are a last defense. We need to get this into more school districts, can be done by serving on boards and voting for conservative school boards.
For how to carry a good pocket holster is hard to spot.

 

[lemaymiami]

I'd take it one step further....

Here's what I'd advocate for if asked.... I think in our times a "Guardian Program" would be worth pursuing nationwide.... Here's how I'd set it up. Participation strictly voluntary -but any public institution from hospitals to schools where numbers of people work together should be allowed to nominate a few individuals (one per hundred, one per two hundred - details to be worked out by statute) as Guardians for that institution. Local police departments would have the responsibility of vetting nominees (and require yearly updates....) and upon acceptance provide a basic level of firearms training (as well as the same level of training required for a CCW license) as well as a limited amount of training on how to report/co-ordinate with responding officers in an emergency.... The idea is that guardians for any institution (no matter what their regular jobs were...) would be on scene and ready to intervene in the case of an armed assault. Whether they're allowed to carry concealed on the job or had dedicated lockers for their weapons would be decided by the institution itself - along with a requirement to carry a cell phone at all times to be able to communicate with their local PD in an emergency...

The idea here is to end this situation where a would be shooter has lots of places with a ready bunch of un-defended targets if possible. Those selected and accepted as Guardians for their institution should be good citizens willing to defend their co-workers in an emergency but set it up as a recognized part of public policy... I think it would make a real difference and become nationwide once a few programs were started and working properly. I suspect that a few outfits have something similar already in place but it's being kept confidential and has no public backing or assistance (churches come to mind....).

Hope this is a starting point for some discussion. I'm sure that some will oppose this, believing it's the first step towards vigilante actions -but as a retired cop who worked in an urban/suburban setting it would have been nice to know that my outfit might just have some trained citizens at any large institution already in place in the event of an armed assault there (with my outfit having their names and contact info on hand in an emergency). Knowing which side of the building to approach and having good on-site intel about the actual situation would be very helpful for responding officers....

 

[Mousegun]

We allow teachers to mold our children's minds (ouch, that can be a problem) and we should allow them to protect their bodies also. Nationwide.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I fear, that arming teachers will expose them to all the same problems a cop has, and more.

It's very hard to deal with the testy kids, even for a 5 or 10 year cop. What happens when a mouthy kid shoves Ms. Krabopple in the chest and say, "Shoot me, B____!".

What if teacher has to pop a black kid? Brown kid?

I've been a school cop (high school), and ensuring weapon retention is very stressful.

Hector says, "What would you do if I grabbed your gun?". Hours later Hector's mom is calling the school and complaining that Ms. Krabopple threatened to kill her son.

The teachers, as they are now, have no obligation to use any force above verbal commands. Start carrying a gun, and the whole picture changes. Students will perceive an armed teaxher differently, ans treat him/her differently.

I used to work one day a week at a school, full uniform, and never went a full year without a being an active participant in a fight.


I fear there is this vision out there, of a teacher stopping a trenchcoated active shooter, and that's a great vision. But it's probably also the exception.

In reality, the teacher will have to navigate the halls of the school woth the same exposure as a cop, but without the training or protection.

I know this reads "anti-teacher", but I think arming teachers is a lot to ask of them, and that it'll be unfairly evaluated after the fact.

The job didn't pay enough before, when they were only responsible for teaching, but now it's life & death? My fear is that you're asking too much, at any salary.


20+ years ago, my high school had a full time cop and 3 security guards... a big Samoan dude, a Wesley Snipes kinda dude, and an Andre The Giant dude. They regulated the BS very well.

Everyone had a defined job.

 

[Teachu2]

I fear, that arming teachers will expose them to all the same problems a cop has, and more.

It's very hard to deal with the testy kids, even for a 5 or 10 year cop. What happens when a mouthy kid shoves Ms. Krabopple in the chest and say, "Shoot me, B____!".

What if teacher has to pop a black kid? Brown kid?

I've been a school cop (high school), and ensuring weapon retention is very stressful.

Hector says, "What would you do if I grabbed your gun?". Hours later Hector's mom is calling the school and complaining that Ms. Krabopple threatened to kill her son.

The teachers, as they are now, have no obligation to use any force above verbal commands. Start carrying a gun, and the whole picture changes. Students will perceive an armed teaxher differently, ans treat him/her differently.

I used to work one day a week at a school, full uniform, and never went a full year without a being an active participant in a fight.


I fear there is this vision out there, of a teacher stopping a trenchcoated active shooter, and that's a great vision. But it's probably also the exception.

In reality, the teacher will have to navigate the halls of the school woth the same exposure as a cop, but without the training or protection.

I know this reads "anti-teacher", but I think arming teachers is a lot to ask of them, and that it'll be unfairly evaluated after the fact.

The job didn't pay enough before, when they were only responsible for teaching, but now it's life & death? My fear is that you're asking too much, at any salary.


20+ years ago, my high school had a full time cop and 3 security guards... a big Samoan dude, a Wesley Snipes kinda dude, and an Andre The Giant dude. They regulated the BS very well.

Everyone had a defined job.

The point is to ALLOW teachers to exercise their 2A right to protect themselves and their students, not to create a Crisis Response Team. No uniforms, no duty to engage, no powers of arrest, no breaking up fights, no visible weapons, just authorization to carry on campus. In reality, it's a failure on my part if my students even know I'm carrying, unless the need to defend arises.

 

[1911 guy]

The point is to ALLOW teachers to exercise their 2A right to protect themselves and their students, not to create a Crisis Response Team. No uniforms, no duty to engage, no powers of arrest, no breaking up fights, no visible weapons, just authorization to carry on campus. In reality, it's a failure on my part if my students even know I'm carrying, unless the need to defend arises.

Teachu2 nailed it. We're talking about CCW here, not an episode of Miami Heat. If someone knows you're carrying concealed, you're not doing it well. And nobody, to my knowledge, has said anything about requiring teachers to be armed. Also agreed that they should be a last-ditch defense, with no decrease in visible enforcement, such as SRO's or police, whatever the district currently uses.

 

[lemaymiami]

Everything Daisy Cutter said, post #18, is quite valid (I used to dispatch two or three of my officers every school day afternoon - just to have them on-site to keep the "kiddies" at our local high school from killing each other -or anyone else, when school got out for the afternoon). We needed to do this on top of the existing school resource officer(s) already assigned there.... This was a large suburban high school down here in south Florida in the early nineties, adjoining the rear of a big shopping mall... true story, wish it weren't so...

That's why I think in some situations the Guardians that I proposed shouldn't be carrying -but have weapons secured nearby...
By the way, I didn't mention it but I think this would be a good idea not only for public institutions - but any large business or office complex that wanted to join the program... I have no direct knowledge -but I'd bet folks like the Israelis long ago came up with something very similar for their civil society's protection...

 

[jeepnik]

How would you carry in a classroom setting?

I have never been a classroom teacher, but I cannot think of a good way to carry standing in front of a class full of kids. It would seem to me that sooner or later they would figure it out, and some parent would make a big deal out of it.

My aunt was a teacher in a school that had an active shooter event. So, I know it can happen and I get why you would want to be prepared. I just don’t see a good way.

It's Bakersfield. That's a very good thing. And if a parent made a complaint, he'd be drowned out by the ones saying it's a good thing. Just a side note, Kern County is one of the easiest places to get a concealed carry permit.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Glad to hear your part of CA has a real common sense gun law with teachers being able to CCW. Wish they did in my child's school.

 

[rskent]

IWB Concealed is concealed

Except when it’s not. I am not disagreeing with the idea that teachers can or should carry. I just wonder how they will accomplish the day to day classroom activities of a teacher and remain concealed. I can’t think of a more difficult situation to maintain concealment than a room full of students. It’s easy for me to stay concealed. Nobody is looking at me. I’m not standing in front of, working with, and talking with a group of students. The same students, day after day. Week after week. Man, I’m glad I’m not a teacher.

 

[DustyGmt]

I always thought that each school should just put names in a hat of teachers willing to CCW and pick one or two or 10 at random depending on the size of school and keep the CCW's anonymous that way nobody turns themselves into a prime target. I realize this is a gross oversimplification of a possible answer to a very complex problem but you get the idea.........