Chicago won't help ex-cops carry guns

[M-Rex]

Folks, you're still approaching this from an emotional, personal point of view. "If Billy gets cake, I get cake too! If I don't get cake, then don't nobody get cake!"

It's not about whether you trust the FOP or like the FOP. It's not about "creating" any class-based anything. It's about taking a cold, objective look at where we stand and where we want to be. If doing what is best for Illinois citizens who want their rights to be respected also benefits the FOP, that's OK with me. I don't care. <snipped>

Sir, you are an island of common sense in a sea of fear-mongering, cop haters.

 

[SomeKid]

Sir, you are an island of common sense in a sea of fear-mongering, cop haters.

Right, your name calling really contributes to the thread. Thank you for making an ad hominem attack.

I for one do not respect people who call people who view the police as not deserving special privileges fear-mongering cop haters. It is akin to calling someone a racist for not bowing to your every whim.

 

[jsalcedo]

Sir, you are an island of common sense in a sea of fear-mongering, cop haters.

Isn't it prudent for a supposedly free society to criticize and question the actions and policies of the government and it's armed enforcers?

 

[M-Rex]

Right, your name calling really contributes to the thread. Thank you for making an ad hominem attack.

I for one do not respect people who call people who view the police as not deserving special privileges fear-mongering cop haters. It is akin to calling someone a racist for not bowing to your every whim.

If the shoe fits...

Maybe I hit a little too close to the truth and you're uncomfortable with that.

 

[M-Rex]

Isn't it prudent for a supposedly free society to criticize and question the actions and policies of the government and it's armed enforcers?

#1...the correct term is protectors or public servants. To refer to them as 'armed enforcers' indicates that you live your life at a certain level of paranoia and fear.

#2...I agree. It is prudent. However, the 15 or so posts that can be summed up relativly succinctly as "Yeah, get 'em. F*ck the po-po" are a little much.

Obviously you folks haven't thought this through enough. Whether or not you want to 'get-even-with-'em' by jumping on the no-guns-for-retired-po-po bandwagon, the end result is still the same. Regular citizens still cannot concealed carry, and as a result...are now even less safe because the anti-cop bigots are frothing to support a mayor who won't allow his retired law enforcement public servants to be armed.

 

[jsalcedo]

the end result is still the same. Regular citizens still cannot concealed carry,

I guess we are "regular" citizens and retired cops are "super citizens"

anti-cop bigots are frothing to support a mayor who won't allow his retired law enforcement public servants to be armed.

Nobody supports that POS mayor. It's just long awaited poetic justice when the police state turns on it's own.


I see this as a wake up call. I hope retired cops eventually get to carry.

 

[SomeKid]

M-Rex, if you really do work with a badge on your chest you know police are not protectors. The SCOTUS has determined that. And they ARE armed enforcers, that is their job description. Law Enforcement Officer. They are also armed. Armed Enforcers is an appropriate term. The shoe fits after all...

js, I am with you. Let them carry, as soon as I can.

 

[M-Rex]

I guess we are "regular" citizens and retired cops are "super citizens"



Nobody supports that POS mayor. It's just long awaited poetic justice when the police state turns on it's own.


I see this as a wake up call. I hope retired cops eventually get to carry.

So what your saying is, that it is simply 'get-even-with-them-ism', and 'yeah, yeah, f*ck da po-po'.

How enlightened.

 

[M-Rex]

M-Rex, if you really do work with a badge on your chest you know police are not protectors. The SCOTUS has determined that. And they ARE armed enforcers, that is their job description. Law Enforcement Officer. They are also armed. Armed Enforcers is an appropriate term. The shoe fits after all...

js, I am with you. Let them carry, as soon as I can.

Sounds like simple jealousy.

Strange...'armed enforcers' was never in my job description. I must have missed it.

 

[lostone1413]

Oh how they squeal Spend a working life violating every ones rights. Then feel it is wrong if they can't carry in Chicago after they retire. Serves them right. The GOA was against the bill 218. They said if it don't apply to all of us it shouldn't be passed. I for one agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[M-Rex]

Oh how they squeal Spend a working life violating every ones rights. Then feel it is wrong if they can't carry in Chicago after they retire. Serves them right. The GOA was against the bill 218. They said if it don't apply to all of us it shouldn't be passed. I for one agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So basically, it's just a jealousy thing, then?

But I though you all thought that LEO's were just like everyone else? Well, gosh. Why wouldn't you insist their right to carry concealed be supported?

 

[jsalcedo]

'yeah, yeah, f*ck da po-po'.

Thats an inflammatory remark. I've never said it or meant it.

BTW I've never heard the term po-po? Is that Ebonics?

I support my local police.

I do not support allowing one group to exercise constitutional rights while others are denied the same.

 

[M-Rex]

Thats an inflammatory remark. I've never said it or meant it.

BTW I've never heard the term po-po? Is that Ebonics?

I support my local police.

I do not support allowing one group to exercise constitutional rights while others are denied the same.

So you would rather that everyone be unarmed, then?

 

[jsalcedo]

So you would rather that everyone be unarmed, then?

As a means to get everyone together fighting for the right to carry.

Cops, ex cops, retired cops, citizens, working toward the goal of CCW for all law abiding citizens.

There is a caste system regarding concealed carry that needs to be eliminated. Politicians, retired police, celebrities, friends of the sherriff or DA, big wigs and others have armed guards or "may issue permit" while everyone else remains defenseless.

This decision to not allow the retired cops to carry is useful as a fire under the butt to get the whole system fixed.

 

[M-Rex]

As a means to get everyone together fighting for the right to carry.

Cops, ex cops, retired cops, citizens, working toward the goal of CCW for all law abiding citizens.

There is a caste system regarding concealed carry that needs to be eliminated. Politicians, retired police, celebrities, friends of the sherriff or DA, big wigs and others have armed guards or "may issue permit" while everyone else remains defenseless.

This decision to not allow the retired cops to carry is useful as a fire under the butt to get the whole system fixed.

You disturb me greatly. You are actually advocating that everyone be unarmed victims, as a catalyst for change.

The ends justify the means.

Wow.

 

[jsalcedo]

You disturb me greatly. You are actually advocating that everyone be unarmed victims, as a catalyst for change.

That coming from someone is one of the rare privleged few who gets to carry a gun in California.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[M-Rex]

That coming from someone is one of the rare privleged few who gets to carry a gun in California.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

If by 'rare privilaged few' you mean the several thousand represented in this map, I suppose we are at an impass. I, myself, do not wish to see people equally disarmed.

 

[Can'thavenuthingood]

By those 1997 figures I count about 40,322 CCW's in Ca.

Seems low for an estimated current state population of 36,000,000.

I suspect the number of CCW's is lower in 2005.

Vick


EDIT: Yeah I know my numbers don't jive with the totals they have. Blame it on the Microsoft calculator. It couldn't have been my fat fingers, I did it twice.

 

[lostone1413]

So basically, it's just a jealousy thing, then?

But I though you all thought that LEO's were just like everyone else? Well, gosh. Why wouldn't you insist their right to carry concealed be supported?

Not jealousy. It's something called the 2nd amendmant. Say you wouldn't be one of the CA JBT that went to New Orleans and forced people out of their homes and took their legally owned guns? But it would be a fair bet your a CA LEO and have proved many times over you have total disregard for the Constitution and anyone rights. Hope you don't ever plain to move to AZ. People who think like you do our a way bigger threat to the lifestyle here then the illegals.

 

[Don Gwinn]

If you had so much as a prayer of having your rights under the 2nd Amendment enforced in Illinois right now, without changing the political climate, that might make sense. But you don't. We all know it. We can vent about how unfair it is that this guy gets to carry and that guy doesn't, but the reality is that right now neither of them can do it legally. Some is better than none. Some is also nearer to "all" than none is.
And again, if you've got a better idea, lets hear it.

For whoever said that it was obvious that this is not a freedom issue because the NRA and the ISRA are not involved, you betray ignorance of the record of both organizations in Illinois. Both have traditionally written us off as a lost cause. As recently as a couple of years ago, ISRA wanted nothing to do with concealed carry. It wasn't until their upstart local chapter, the Champaign County Rifle Association (now renamed www.gunssavelife.com ) came on the scene and nearly took over from the current ISRA board by running board candidates on a "push CCW NOW" platform, that ISRA decided to jump on the CCW bandwagon.

I'm glad ISRA exists. They do valuable things in this state, including their much-maligned target range and safety programs, plus a lot of unglamorous defensive action behind the scenes. But they are not pro-CCW bulldogs on a par with groups like the TSRA in Texas. That just isn't what ISRA does.


We're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I'm afraid. And it's moot, really, unless somebody figures out a way around Daley. It isn't as if we make or break the cops on this issue. But I'm disturbed at the hatred I'm hearing. I don't like Chicago myself, but you're talking about FOUR THOUSAND police officers who retired honorably--and you think every single one is a crook and an oppressor?
Really?

I don't. Maybe I'm just naive.

 

[Don Gwinn]

And by the way, the personal attacks stop NOW. Next one closes the thread.

 

[scout26]

Why I don't support CCW for Retired Cops in Chicago

I won't do anything to actively prevent them from obtaining it, but I'm not going to lift a finger to help them either.

Why you ask ??? Because the FOP (Remember it's a Union) in this state has been very active in the anti-CCW movement. If they (retired Chicago police) get their CCW do you think they will support us in getting ours ??? I've got some nice ocean-front property for sale downstate if you think so. Heck this will be their arguement, "The regular people don't need CCW, as there are enough retired and off-duty cops already with CCW."

When the FOP, et al, supports CCW for us lesser mortals, then I will support them getting theirs. One hand washes the other.

 

[lostone1413]

I won't do anything to actively prevent them from obtaining it, but I'm not going to lift a finger to help them either.

Why you ask ??? Because the FOP (Remember it's a Union) in this state has been very active in the anti-CCW movement. If they (retired Chicago police) get their CCW do you think they will support us in getting ours ??? I've got some nice ocean-front property for sale downstate if you think so. Heck this will be their arguement, "The regular people don't need CCW, as there are enough retired and off-duty cops already with CCW."

When the FOP, et al, supports CCW for us lesser mortals, then I will support them getting theirs. One hand washes the other.

That was the real reason they passed 218. Watch and see if it don't come back to haunt us other gun owners. The Chicago Police Dept has always been one of the most crooked in the country. The idea of giving a group a special right when most spent a career violating your rights is BS. Look what they did in New Orleans. Any get fired any go to jail. The 2nd was so if need be you could protect yourself from the goverment. All the LE march to the tune of the goverment because they are goverment workers

 

[Don Gwinn]

Sure, because as we all know, the FOP, the NEA and the AFL-CIO are all monolithic organizations with no members who dissent from the official leadership's political line.

Read what you've written. Your entire approach to this problem is rooted in who you don't want to have guns. From your writings, no one need ever know that having MORE decent people carry firearms is part of your agenda at all. Does that seem right to you?

 

[NukemJim]

A minor point of information. I work in Chicago, have discussed/debated this issue numerous times with Chicago LEOs , the majority (>50% ) are not anti gun. Have been advised numerous times by LEOs to carry(I do not carry in my field a conviction means NEVER working in the field again ).

Yes there are many LEOs who are anti.( One of whom along with myself got suckered into a 2 1/2 hr debate regarding gun control, I won when he admitted that he just did not like guns. ) But not all by any means.

NukemJim