stealthmode
Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2004
- Messages
- 459
i would write a complaint
Civility strained to the breaking point by UPS Store
- Thread starter one45auto
- Start date
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Average Guy
Member
I'll play.
I shipped my Mossberg 500 back to the factory via UPS (at Mail Boxes Etc., pre-UPS Store). I put multiple shipping labels on the box, and declared it as "custom motorcycle parts." When Mossberg shipped it back, I had to go to the service center to pick it up.
That story would be better with a car chase and a couple of explosions, don'tcha think?
I shipped my Mossberg 500 back to the factory via UPS (at Mail Boxes Etc., pre-UPS Store). I put multiple shipping labels on the box, and declared it as "custom motorcycle parts." When Mossberg shipped it back, I had to go to the service center to pick it up.
That story would be better with a car chase and a couple of explosions, don'tcha think?
Powderman
Member
Depending on who you talk to, FedEx can be just as frustrating.
When I was in the process of shipping my revolver to S&W for repair and refinishing, the first driver I asked did not speak too much English.
I found a second one, and had this refreshing conversation:
Me: "Where is the nearest Shipping Center, so that I can ship a firearm for repair?"
Her: "Oh, you can't do that. It's illegal."
Me: "Oh, do tell. I always thought that shipping a firearm to a gunsmith or manufacturer for repair was OK. They can even ship it right back to you."
Her: "That's not right." :banghead:
Me: "OK. Well, say that I get my firearm back for repair, and it is shipped back to me via FedEx. Will it be delivered, or will I have to pick it up?"
Her: "I can't deliver firearms to private addresses. It's a crime, and I could be arrested."
Me: "OK. Well, that sure didn't happen the last time a rifle was returned to me from the factory."
Her: "Well, whoever did it really broke the law, and didn't know what they were doing. Who delivered the rifle to you?"
Me: "The US Postal Service."
Her:
I finally took it to a shipping center, where they accepted it without a blink, and got it properly insured. I should get it back in about 3 weeks.
If you're shipping a handgun, go FedEx, from a shipping center.
Shipping a long gun? USPS all the way, folks. Registered Mail rocks!
When I was in the process of shipping my revolver to S&W for repair and refinishing, the first driver I asked did not speak too much English.
I found a second one, and had this refreshing conversation:
Me: "Where is the nearest Shipping Center, so that I can ship a firearm for repair?"
Her: "Oh, you can't do that. It's illegal."
Me: "Oh, do tell. I always thought that shipping a firearm to a gunsmith or manufacturer for repair was OK. They can even ship it right back to you."
Her: "That's not right." :banghead:
Me: "OK. Well, say that I get my firearm back for repair, and it is shipped back to me via FedEx. Will it be delivered, or will I have to pick it up?"
Her: "I can't deliver firearms to private addresses. It's a crime, and I could be arrested."
Me: "OK. Well, that sure didn't happen the last time a rifle was returned to me from the factory."
Her: "Well, whoever did it really broke the law, and didn't know what they were doing. Who delivered the rifle to you?"
Me: "The US Postal Service."
Her:
I finally took it to a shipping center, where they accepted it without a blink, and got it properly insured. I should get it back in about 3 weeks.
If you're shipping a handgun, go FedEx, from a shipping center.
Shipping a long gun? USPS all the way, folks. Registered Mail rocks!
feedthehogs
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2003
- Messages
- 1,801
UPS is an employee owned company.
The employees set the rules.
What does the average employee of a company do?
Everything possible to get out of work, steal everything that's not nailed down and don't give a damn when they foul up.
The employees set the rules.
What does the average employee of a company do?
Everything possible to get out of work, steal everything that's not nailed down and don't give a damn when they foul up.
RavenVT100
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,107
A few questions here. Aren't you supposed to notify the carrier (UPS/Fedex) that it's a handgun you're shipping? And why would they know what was inside the package in order to steal it if you don't tell them what's inside?
TimH
Member
insure it for $5000 or over. anything under $4999.99 gets treated the same.
High Value is considered $1000 or over by UPS at least here in NY. Maybe its different other places.
High Value is considered $1000 or over by UPS at least here in NY. Maybe its different other places.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
While the folks at the store were fairly clueless on gun shipping, no doubt this comment pretty well screwed you over. I don't know why you didn't walk out right then, but instead continued to engage the UPS folks. You obviously were not going to ship a gun through folks about whom you just asked if they were going to commit a felony.
What I don't understand is that folks know there are problems at UPS with shipping guns, and yet they keep posting new incidents as if they never had any idea that UPS was problematic. I don't know if it is still available, but UPS used to have their shipping guidelines/rules online. If you want to ship something via UPS and are fearful that you might run into the idiots who don't know they can ship, then print out a copy of the UPS guidelines and take with you. That goes for FedEx as well.
38SnubFan
Member
Wow! I've yet to need to ship a firearm to an FFL or factory, but this information I'm finding invlauable.
That, right there, has summed up that my business goes to FedEx. I've had some pretty crappy dealings with UPS in the past. (2 days of hassles just to pick up a new badge wallet I ordered from Gall's from a UPS Service Center). FedEx has always been courteous and helpful around here when I've shipped things to them in the past.
Waitone
Member
We as individuals get to experience what a gun shop experiences on a daily basis. They know the drill because the hassle factor is too high to remain stoopid of the best way to ship.
I suggest calling you favorite gunshop (you do support your local gun shop don't you? If you love internet purchases then perhaps now is the time to reconsider) and find out how they deal with ignorance and stupidity. Who knows, your shop may be willing to do the shipping thingy for you for a minimal fee. Opps, maybe only if you bought your firearm from them. You did buy a firearm from your local shop, didn't you??
I suggest calling you favorite gunshop (you do support your local gun shop don't you? If you love internet purchases then perhaps now is the time to reconsider) and find out how they deal with ignorance and stupidity. Who knows, your shop may be willing to do the shipping thingy for you for a minimal fee. Opps, maybe only if you bought your firearm from them. You did buy a firearm from your local shop, didn't you??
Yes, if the gun already belongs to you. You can ship directly to them and they back to you with no FFL involvement.
I agree that was not the right thing to say but I do understand why you said it. Either way, I agree with staying an making them do the right thing but in this case, it was not the right thing. They should not have accepted your shipment at that location. Next time go to an actual UPS location.
I'm sorry but that's horrible advice IMO. It's not like gun shipments are the only ones that get lost\stolen. What are you going to do when your "machine parts" get stolen? And what do you think UPS is going to tell you when you tell them that your machine parts were actually a handgun? They are going to tell you to go fly a kite.
Why did you walk out? By doing so you just confirmed in their heads the "fears" they had. If it was me, I would have loved for them to call 911 just for the enjoyment of seeing the looks on their faces when it finally dawns on them how stupid they were.
Guys - There are perfectly legal ways for shipping firearms though UPS\FedEx. Know their rules and following them and if they give you any grief, stand your ground and make them following them. Lying, playing games and walking out just makes us look bad and puts us at risk.
Here is the links to UPS's and Fedex's Internet pages listing their requirement\rules for shipping firearms. Print them out and bring them with you next time...
UPS: Shipping Firearms
FedEx - Terms and Conditions - Firearms
Here's some good info that Gunbroker put together...
FAQ 1118: Firearms shipping guide
George S.
Member
Hmmm. The CMP uses FedEx Overnight exclusively to deliver their rifles directly to the buyer's door. Just requires a signature at delivery.
It's too bad that companies like UPS and FedEx cannot provide adequate training to their employees or at least provide a clearly written and comprehensive set of shipping rules so they understand what they can and can't do. All of these places have computer terminals or PC's available at the counters and a simple search function that they could use would be a big help.
It depends on the particular employee you deal with at any company and, possibly, the location. I've had great service from both UPS and FedEx locally. Our regular UPS driver has been covering our route for 5 years and knows where I like to have things left for security purposes.
I have no doubt that there have been a lot of bad experiences with both UPS and FedEx but I sure haven't had any. Guess I've been lucky so far.
USPS, on the other hand, is a waste of money. I don't use them for firearms, obviously, but have had too many instances where I paid for next day service and it took 2-3 days. Once it was almost a week. A refund of the shipping charge doesn't begin to cover the frustration and inconvenience.
I have no doubt that there have been a lot of bad experiences with both UPS and FedEx but I sure haven't had any. Guess I've been lucky so far.
USPS, on the other hand, is a waste of money. I don't use them for firearms, obviously, but have had too many instances where I paid for next day service and it took 2-3 days. Once it was almost a week. A refund of the shipping charge doesn't begin to cover the frustration and inconvenience.
Darkmind
Member
I found out that one the hard way.
Bobarino
member
TimH,
you're right in that anything over $1000 is considered a high value package and a high value report is generated when you do "end of day" with WorldShip. that report may or may not be turned into the clerk by the driver at the end of the day but the package itself does not get treated any differently than any other package. its off-laoded, sorted, reloaded and off it goes. if its over $5,000, there is a much more thoroughly documented chain of custody and verification of deleivery. so yes, you are correct that over $1k is high value but as far as safety and security of your UPS package, insuring it for $5k+ is the way to go if you really want to make sure it gets there.
as a side note, yes, UPS sucks sometimes. their employees are sometimes bafoons. but in their defense, i have to say that they are a pretty good company for relatively cost effective shipping. they deliver tens of millions of packages a day. when you consider that, they do a pretty good job of keeping track of their stuff. i've shipped about 75,000 packages through them and they have lost a grand total of two of them. now as far as packages are handled with regards to rough treatment, well, thats a different story. you definately need to pay attention to UPS's packaging guidelines and stick to them and then some.
Bobby
you're right in that anything over $1000 is considered a high value package and a high value report is generated when you do "end of day" with WorldShip. that report may or may not be turned into the clerk by the driver at the end of the day but the package itself does not get treated any differently than any other package. its off-laoded, sorted, reloaded and off it goes. if its over $5,000, there is a much more thoroughly documented chain of custody and verification of deleivery. so yes, you are correct that over $1k is high value but as far as safety and security of your UPS package, insuring it for $5k+ is the way to go if you really want to make sure it gets there.
as a side note, yes, UPS sucks sometimes. their employees are sometimes bafoons. but in their defense, i have to say that they are a pretty good company for relatively cost effective shipping. they deliver tens of millions of packages a day. when you consider that, they do a pretty good job of keeping track of their stuff. i've shipped about 75,000 packages through them and they have lost a grand total of two of them. now as far as packages are handled with regards to rough treatment, well, thats a different story. you definately need to pay attention to UPS's packaging guidelines and stick to them and then some.
Bobby
mmike87
Member
Q: "What's in the package?"
A: "Nothing that is against the law or your company's rules to ship. Thus, it's none of your business."
If they don't like that, remind them that FedEx is usually cheaper these days, anyway.
A: "Nothing that is against the law or your company's rules to ship. Thus, it's none of your business."
If they don't like that, remind them that FedEx is usually cheaper these days, anyway.
Zach S
Member
I actually prefer UPS. All my shipments are on time, and at the right house, wheather I have to sign for it or not. FedEx tends to leve my stuff at a neighbors house, and which neighbor gets it isnt very consistant.
Of course, I've never shipped anything, much less a firearm.
Of course, I've never shipped anything, much less a firearm.
larryf1952
Member
I haven't shipped any firearms by UPS since the Next Day Air requirement was enforced. Last year, I sold a Maverick 88 12 gauge to a buyer in California...first mistake...via Gunsamerica.com. I contacted a local dealer for legality for shipping to CA, and to ship the gun for me, but he said, "Just take it to the USPS and send it by certified mail, it's entirely legal to ship long guns via the Post Office". I carefully wrapped it up in plain brown paper and sealed it with packaging tape, no indication of what was in the box anywhere.
When I arrived at the PO, they asked me if it was a firearm. "Yes", I replied. They then told me that I had to have it sealed with paper tape, it couldn't be plastic packaging tape. They gave me a roll of paper tape and a wet sponge, and I had to go to another area to strip the plastic tape off the package and reseal it with the paper tape.
I go back to the counter, and we're almost done when a supervisor appears from somewhere, notices the package, and asks me if it's a gun. "Yes", I reply yet again. "Are you a dealer? Only dealers can ship a gun." I said, "Not according to the BATF or your own organization's rules." I then produced a printout straight from the BATF's and the USPS website. He then asked if the firing pin had been removed. Seeing where this was going, I just said, "Yes". He looked at my printout a little longer, checked a book that he had under the counter, and said, "Well, I guess you are OK to ship a shotgun." I said, "Thank you very much".
After the gun arrived at the receiving FFL in CA, it took another month for the buyer to take delivery of it, as the dealer there insisted that it must come from a shipping FFL, and wouldn't take my or my dealer's word for it. We finally ended up having to have the BATF and the CA DOJ send a printed statement to the dealer, before he'd release the gun to the customer. What a PITA.
When I arrived at the PO, they asked me if it was a firearm. "Yes", I replied. They then told me that I had to have it sealed with paper tape, it couldn't be plastic packaging tape. They gave me a roll of paper tape and a wet sponge, and I had to go to another area to strip the plastic tape off the package and reseal it with the paper tape.
I go back to the counter, and we're almost done when a supervisor appears from somewhere, notices the package, and asks me if it's a gun. "Yes", I reply yet again. "Are you a dealer? Only dealers can ship a gun." I said, "Not according to the BATF or your own organization's rules." I then produced a printout straight from the BATF's and the USPS website. He then asked if the firing pin had been removed. Seeing where this was going, I just said, "Yes". He looked at my printout a little longer, checked a book that he had under the counter, and said, "Well, I guess you are OK to ship a shotgun." I said, "Thank you very much".
After the gun arrived at the receiving FFL in CA, it took another month for the buyer to take delivery of it, as the dealer there insisted that it must come from a shipping FFL, and wouldn't take my or my dealer's word for it. We finally ended up having to have the BATF and the CA DOJ send a printed statement to the dealer, before he'd release the gun to the customer. What a PITA.
bamawrx
Member
larryf,
Unfortunately, I too have felt the pain of ignorant FFL holder with respect to interstate sales. It was during this time that I also learned to ship all firearms Fedex. I called UPS first, and that didn't go well. Pickup up phone and called Fedex....they came to my house and picked up the gun. I told them it was a firearm and it was going to an FFL holder, no problem. Its Fedex from now on for me due to this one issue.
PS I also had to involve the ATF to get a gun released because my FFL thought we had a waiting period. He was only about two governors behind on that one. I shipped a handgun to New York once, and I included a signed FFL for the comfort of my buyer. You should have heard what he had to go through to get that gun, just amazing. If I even ship to another gun control state I will include an FFL as it seems to make the other FFL feel better. FYI
Unfortunately, I too have felt the pain of ignorant FFL holder with respect to interstate sales. It was during this time that I also learned to ship all firearms Fedex. I called UPS first, and that didn't go well. Pickup up phone and called Fedex....they came to my house and picked up the gun. I told them it was a firearm and it was going to an FFL holder, no problem. Its Fedex from now on for me due to this one issue.
PS I also had to involve the ATF to get a gun released because my FFL thought we had a waiting period. He was only about two governors behind on that one. I shipped a handgun to New York once, and I included a signed FFL for the comfort of my buyer. You should have heard what he had to go through to get that gun, just amazing. If I even ship to another gun control state I will include an FFL as it seems to make the other FFL feel better. FYI
hayseed
Member
I wish people in general could just pull their collective heads out of their collective a**, grow up and stop wetting their pants at the sight or mention of a firearm. I know, yeah right. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I shipped one Fed-Ex from a Fed-Ex office to a FFL/Gunsmith. The counter gal first said I couldn't do it but called someone without protest when I told her that i was positive she could. Then I got the "it has to be disassembled' routine. It's a revolver I'm thinking...what am I going to do, take the grip off? Anyhow, I just smiled and said OK, let me go out to my truck and 'disassemble it". I walked outside, had a smoke, walked back in and said, "OK...all disassembeled" and it was on it's way. Sometimes steping around a barrier is much smarter than barreling through it.
BTW....this is what came back a few weeks later.
BTW....this is what came back a few weeks later.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Well one45auto, I think you were completely wrong and out of line with the UPS store people. Apparently, you don't know their business and rules nearly as good as you think you do. They said you can't ship handguns via UPS. That wasn't fully correct, but it was correct for shipping from their store.
You see, UPS policy specifically states that don't accept firearms for shipment from there UPS Stores.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html
The really funny part is that you got all mad, posted your outrage, and did so without ever verifying your information. The sad part is that the guy who queried you so much about your shipment was trying to make it work out somehow that he could get it shipped for you. Instead, you got PO'd, paranoid, and rude.
You see, UPS policy specifically states that don't accept firearms for shipment from there UPS Stores.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html
The really funny part is that you got all mad, posted your outrage, and did so without ever verifying your information. The sad part is that the guy who queried you so much about your shipment was trying to make it work out somehow that he could get it shipped for you. Instead, you got PO'd, paranoid, and rude.
johnster999
Member
I'm looking to ship my old Security-Six to Ruger for some service. I've never shipped a gun before. Called Ruger and they told me "use UPS or FedEx next day".
Fed Ex policy on their website now says you can't ship unless it's dealer to dealer etc. At least that's how I read it and that's what they told me when I called. That would mean I'd have to pay a dealer their transfer fee to get it done.
Called the local UPS Store and they said you have to ship via dealer "with a gun shipping license". I got the ol' "we're real particular on this stuff because of 9/11" routine. I did not argue with the guy since I didn't think it would help to explain, once again, that 9/11 was carried out with boxcutters and airplanes.
Looked at the UPS website and it's true the UPS Stores won't ship guns at all. The Customer Centers apparently will though. I'm gonna go try it out. I will post my experience. I will take the previous poster's advice and bring a printout of the UPS policy with me.
Fed Ex policy on their website now says you can't ship unless it's dealer to dealer etc. At least that's how I read it and that's what they told me when I called. That would mean I'd have to pay a dealer their transfer fee to get it done.
Called the local UPS Store and they said you have to ship via dealer "with a gun shipping license". I got the ol' "we're real particular on this stuff because of 9/11" routine. I did not argue with the guy since I didn't think it would help to explain, once again, that 9/11 was carried out with boxcutters and airplanes.
Looked at the UPS website and it's true the UPS Stores won't ship guns at all. The Customer Centers apparently will though. I'm gonna go try it out. I will post my experience. I will take the previous poster's advice and bring a printout of the UPS policy with me.
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
I shipped a few handguns to Alaska via Fedex, just last fall. We have one of their distribution centers here though so maybe that was the difference.
Of course, Fedex lost my package for two days.
Everything eventually got to where it was supposed to go, though, and I got a refund on my "Next Day" delivery.
Of course, Fedex lost my package for two days.
Everything eventually got to where it was supposed to go, though, and I got a refund on my "Next Day" delivery.
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