Coated vs non-coated cast lead projectiles (Mo. Bullet Co.)

[D.B. Cooper]

So, the range that runs the league I shoot in just informed me that, after the end of the current season (in two weeks), I will no longer be allowed to compete using cast lead, that, even though it's an outdoor range, I will have to start shooting jacketed lead in the next season. This is, of course, to protect their range officers' health. No word yet on if this is a blanket ban across all aspects of the range, or just the league I compete in.

SO. I'm looking at Missouri Bullet Company's coated cast lead projectiles. (Cowboy #5 200 grn 44 Spl) Does this stuff really prevent exposure to lead? In that matter, is it comparable to a copper jacketed lead projectile? Is there any evidence to that effect? If so, I'm going to try to plead my case and see if I can use these as they're only slightly more expensive than uncoated cast lead.

Also, if anyone has been shooting these, are they essentially interchangeable with their uncoated brethren? Did you have to change your powder charge at all? Was you point of impact altered at all?

 

[troy fairweather]

wow that sucks, does the range now there is still lead in jacted/coated bullets. poa should not change much.

 

[Soupy44]

Just had this exact conversation with a bullseye friend 2 hours ago. He feels safer with the coated bullets. He didn't have any evidence to support it. Just the argument that a coat of paint would successfully separate the lead from your fingers.

As for shooting well, he has had no feed issues, and showed me a test target at 50y with a sub 2in group. Didn't mention any change in load data. I don't think changes can be ruled out, but they can be mitigated through load development.

I'm strongly considering coated bulled for bullseye to separate me from lead. My wife and I had our first child, and she convinced me to change to wet tumbling after seeing the dust from my separator. Coated sounds good to me. I also have heard it helps prevent leading, but again, no evidence was supplied.

 

[dave333]

Seems crazy an outdoor range would want to ban cast lead. But yes, coated lead Bullets are fully encapsulated in a polymer coating and are loaded exactly as lubed lead is. Depending on the coating I have noticed a very slight loss of speed, 5-10 FPS max with some coated bullets. POA should be the same.

I suppose the powers that be know jacketed bullets have an open base that has exposed lead so not understanding where the safety is going to come from for the range staff.

 

[Havok7416]

Here's some evidence for you. The coating on the base of the bullet stays intact. This is where the biggest issue with leading occurs. The fired red bullet (Harbor Freight) came out of a .45 ACP rifle at around 1,050 FPS. The gold bullet (HiTek) was fired from a 10mm pistol and clocked 1,419 FPS with the coating still intact. Properly coated you have more lead exposure from primer dust than anything on the bullets themselves.

 

[troy fairweather]

a good test is to smash the coated bullet it should not crack.

 

[Havok7416]

Like this: (Same .45 SWC type bullet as above)

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm not trying to argue that lead is perfectly hazard-free. I where gloves when reloading. But yeah, I don't understand how the simple act of my firing a lead projectile while a range officer is standing next to me with a timer is somehow a detriment to his (or my) health. The rangemaster did quote some statistics of "x parts per million" more lead is released from unjacketed lead projectiles when they strike the steel targets compared to that of jacketed ammo.

I don't mind be called out when I do something unsafe or against the rules, and that has happened, and I take it like a good sport; I don't like be told what I can or can't do based on someone else's ideas (although, admittedly, I'm somewhat hypocritical here), and I especially don't like being told I have to spend more money because someone doesn't like my equipment.

But at the end of the day, my options are comply or leave. (And I did leave one range in the area over this lead free BS in my shotguns.)

So I'm going to run this by the head honcho, and see what happens. I think he outright demands copper jacketed ammo, I'll be done. That will add another $55 onto every 1k rounds I fire. That increase alone is almost equal to what I pay in league fees each season. Across all 4 seasons for the year, it's more than I pay in range membership.

 

[fxvr5]

I'm not trying to argue that lead is perfectly hazard-free. I where gloves when reloading. But yeah, I don't understand how the simple act of my firing a lead projectile while a range officer is standing next to me with a timer is somehow a detriment to his (or my) health. The rangemaster did quote some statistics of "x parts per million" more lead is released from unjacketed lead projectiles when they strike the steel targets compared to that of jacketed ammo.

I don't mind be called out when I do something unsafe or against the rules, and that has happened, and I take it like a good sport; I don't like be told what I can or can't do based on someone else's ideas (although, admittedly, I'm somewhat hypocritical here), and I especially don't like being told I have to spend more money because someone doesn't like my equipment.

So I'm going to run this by the head honcho, and see what happens. I think he outright demands copper jacketed ammo, I'll be done. That will add another $55 onto every 1k rounds I fire. That increase alone is almost equal to what I pay in league fees each season. Across all 4 seasons for the year, it's more than I pay in range membership.

Airborne lead is a significant health hazard for rangemasters/instructors and there is data behind that, even at an outdoor range, so they are wise to want to reduce it. It's not just someone else's ideas, it based on science and measuring airborne lead. Another source is the lead in the primers. You are exposed to this airborne lead, too, so you can benefit as well.

Ask the folks who make the coated bullets if they are aware of data showing a reduction in airborne lead. They would be in a good position to have that information.

With respect to any difference between the performance of cast lead versus coated lead, this article might be of interest:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

 

[reddog81]

If the bullet striking the metal plate is the cause of lead concern than coated bullets won’t reduce lead exposure as the bullet basically disintegrates upon impact. You’d have to ask the range if coated bullets are OK, but I’d guess they say no.

IMO they are much safer to handle as the lead is completely encapsulated.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

There is always the plated bullets. Not sure if they would hold up well to steel plates without peeling the copper though. Plated are much more affordable than jacketed. Thought I would throw that out there.

 

[rfwobbly]

It sounds to me like the RO is complaining about the cloud of smoke lubed bullets leave hanging in the air after being fired. Although some small quantity is vaporized lead, most of the "cloud" is smoke from lube. As was said, any jacketed ball ammo is going to have the same amount of vaporized lead exposure. So jackets alone won't fix anything.

► Using any of the HiTek coated or powder coated lead bullets are going to control the smoke extremely well. That's what I'd try.

► If you want to cut your own lead exposure, the only way to do that is to shoot JHP or plated bullets exclusively.

 

[Laphroaig]

I was searching for a link posted on this board a while ago that reported lead measurements at an outdoor range when shooting lead vs jacketed bullets, but couldn't find it. The difference was quite large, I can't remember the exact numbers but lead bullets made more than 10x the respirable lead.

 

[edwardware]

So I'm going to run this by the head honcho, and see what happens.

You might point out that most jacketed RN bullets have exposed lead bases, whereas coated bullets have encapsulated bases. I would think HiTek coating is better than RN jacketed for encapsulation, and one step short of plated.

 

[fxvr5]

It sounds to me like the RO is complaining about the cloud of smoke lubed bullets leave hanging in the air after being fired.

Don't know how you came to that conclusion as there are no references to smoke. The only references are about lead.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I was searching for a link posted on this board a while ago that reported lead measurements at an outdoor range when shooting lead vs jacketed bullets, but couldn't find it. The difference was quite large, I can't remember the exact numbers but lead bullets made more than 10x the respirable lead.

You mean when hitting steel as opposed to a berm or backstop? Because lead output is lead output. Indoor range negative exposure to lead from a shooter or worker is much more than outdoors. The lead breathed is the number one way to bring lead levels up.

 

[Laphroaig]

You mean when hitting steel as opposed to a berm or backstop? Because lead output is lead output. Indoor range negative exposure to lead from a shooter or worker is much more than outdoors. The lead breathed is the number one way to bring lead levels up.

No, it was respirable lead in the air at the firing line. You are probably correct, that depending on the ventilation system, indoor ranges have a greater hazard. But outdoor ranges are not immune to lead exposure.

 

[Eddietruett]

There is always the plated bullets. Not sure if they would hold up well to steel plates without peeling the copper though. Plated are much more affordable than jacketed. Thought I would throw that out there.

I shoot a lot of steel plates. At one time I was using Plated from Berrys and Xtreme. Now I use HyTek Coated. From the bullets I have picked up around the targets, I don't think either works any better than the other as far as the coating/plating keeps the lead from being exposed after contact. Of course its all about the velocity that the bullet hits the plate. I've seen some of each fired at low velocity that only had a slight mashed nose and the coating/plating 100% intact, but on the flip side, I've seen some that hit a max velocity that wind up a flat mangled mess and of course the lead exposed. One thing I have noticed is it seems the plated bullets do tend to have tiny fragments more so than the coated lead. I have a large foam board backed in the target stand next to the steel plates and when I was using plated bullets I noticed more tiny fragment holes in the foam board than I did with coated lead.
I'm real interested in what your range people say about coated lead and/or plated. As Edwardware pointed out, a lot of jacketed bullets have exposed lead tips, so what is the real point here? If its the lead in the smoke, I can follow, but if its the lead exposure at the target end, then I can't see where anything is going to be foolproof.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm real interested in what your range people say about coated lead and/or plated. As Edwardware pointed out, a lot of jacketed bullets have exposed lead tips, so what is the real point here? If its the lead in the smoke, I can follow, but if its the lead exposure at the target end, then I can't see where anything is going to be foolproof.

Yeah, I'm real interested, too. That particular rangemaster has ribbed me about shooting "black powder" because of the smoke from my gun, but I switched from Unique to Clays and that resolved much of that.

This is an informative discussion. I would not have thought lead exposure was an issue at an outdoor range. (Lead contamination and reclamation could be whole other issue.)

 

[35 Whelen]

Geez....what is this world coming too. People act as though bare lead bullets are a new thing and that the mere presence of them will kill a human being. I've cast several hundred pounds of bullets in the last few years, and handled each and every one with bare hands during the lubing, sizing and loading process, and have lived to tell about it. We're becoming a shooting society of hand-wringing worry warts.

Ask your genius Range Officer if he's aware of the presence of lead in PRIMERS.

35W

 

[Demi-human]

Having witnessed the sorrow that is acute lead poisioning first hand, I know it is nothing to be cavalier about.

Conversely, It feels strange that a Range Safety Officer would chide you about your handloads. Stranger still to mention to you no more cast. Was it to eveyone else, too? It seems like it would be printed in the information packet for the event. Then reinforced to the entire group. Be sure that everyone else knows, he has to suck fumes for ALL the shooters.
Like was said above, it seems lead AND Full Metal jacketed would be banned, were it about vaporized lead. Primers, too. Especially as the lead compound they contain is more readily absorbed than pure elemental lead.
Still, these are the rules. I commend you for trying to adapt first, rather than being angry and quitting. That is always an option later.

Further, I love the coated bullets. I load nothing else for my Fourty Five Autos. I enjoy the colors, though I usually get red. I enjoy cleaner hands while handloading, really, cleaner everything! I can put my bullets in my pocket if I'd like. Fuzz and grit won't stick to them and go down the bore, either. MBC, Blues, Precision, SNS, Bayou, I like them all. Really liking Acme as of late...

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Info at this site. http://www.westcastings.org/?page_id=60

 

[Tilos]

Yeah, I'm real interested, too. That particular rangemaster has ribbed me about shooting "black powder" because of the smoke from my gun, but I switched from Unique to Clays and that resolved much of that.

This is an informative discussion. I would not have thought lead exposure was an issue at an outdoor range. (Lead contamination and reclamation could be whole other issue.)

Why not offer to buy the rangemaster a high quality respirator...after you mention that primers contain lead too.
Get him a respirator that's a Darth Vader or Storm Trooper helmet with an built-in megaphone and he could call the match in his best James Earl Jones voice

 

[AZAndy]

Ask your genius Range Officer if he's aware of the presence of lead in PRIMERS.

35W

Okay, you can do that, but be prepared to switch to slingshots.

 

[35 Whelen]

Why not offer to buy the rangemaster a high quality respirator...after you mention that primers contain lead too.
Get him a respirator that's a Darth Vader or Storm Trooper helmet with an built-in megaphone and he could call the match in his best James Earl Jones voice

Oh man, what GREAT idea!! The smart@$$ in me would gleefully present him with a respirator, and probably some yarn and crocheting hooks, so he can have a less hazardous hobby.

35W