someguy2800
Member
I started a thread on Saturday with some chronograph testing comparing a few of my loads worked up in warm weather and shot in the cold. Well today I did some more extensive testing and I decided to roll the two threads into one.
First the results from Saturday. The thermometer read -1 F when I did this testing. I set my 357 magnum and my 300 blackout AR and ammo outside for an hour while I did other things and then shot them over the chrono.
Unfortunately it was early morning and I did not have the angle right on the chrono to get some sun and none of the 300 blackout rounds picked up.
Next the 4.2" 357 mag with a 125 grain Xtp, 21.5 gr of H110 (actually 296), federal sp magnum match primer. In 60 degree weather this averages right at 1500 fps.
1507
1475
1488
158 prvi HP with 15.4 gr 2400, S&B sp primer. This averages 1260 fps at 60 degrees.
1221
1241
1189
38 special target load, 125 berrys fp, 4 gr 700x, S&B primer. This averages 820 fps.
750
825
605 (felt noticeably softer)
Now for the next round of tests I loaded up a variety of experiment loads and also selected 3 of my hunting rifles to test with there standard loads. I picked this morning as the testing day because the weather channel said it would be the coldest morning this week and no wind. When I went to bed last night it was 27 below zero F but unfortunatly it warmed up overnight and was only -18 when I headed out to start testing. By the end of my testing it was about -10. I was hoping it would be colder than that but we get what we get. I left the guns and the ammo outside overnight so they were all fully temp stabilized by the time I shot. For the revolver, Marlin, and my AR I shot each group in about a minute or two and then switched to testing another gun with the action open to allow them to cool fully before the next group. With my Tikka and 444 I was walking to the target between each shot with the action left open so shots were at about 5 minute intervals.
This is not the order the groups were shot in, this is just how I'm organizing the data.
Ruger SP101 4.2" 357/38
357 magnum 125 gr Zero FP, 21.5 gr Win 296, S&B small pistol primer. I have not shot this load in warmer temps.
1397
error
1380
1329
1392
there was unburned powder left in all the cases which is unusual for 296
Same load with Federal small pistol magnum match primer. This load shoots right around 1500 at 60 degrees. No change in point of impact was noticed and they were very accurate.
1450
1435
1417
1395
1435
357 magnum 158 gr Prvi hp, 15.4 gr 2400, S&B small pistol primer. This load averages 1260 at normal temps. Very accurate
1184
1187
1187
1174
1240
Same load with Federal small pistol magnum match primer. This load averages 1320 at normal temps. This is a hot load and results in stiffer extraction than I like.
1284
1321
1312
1346
1331
38 Special 125 gr Berry's fp, 4.0 gr 700x, S&B small pistol primer. This load averages 820 fps at normal temps.
695
775
765
769
783
Same load with Federal small pistol magnum match primer. Never shot this at normal temps. These were notably louder and harder kicking.
810
785
801
764
787
All loads shot were just as accurate as normal. About 2" groups for all loads at 15 yards shot from a rest. I was not concentrating on maximum accuracy but did not notice any difference in accuracy. There was some POI shift due to the velocity changes. The 158 loads with 2400 were the most accurate today.
45-70 guide gun
Next up to test was my Marlin 1895 45-70 guide gun. My normal load with this gun is a 350 gr Oregon Trail hard cast bullet over 19 gr of Trailboss with an old lot of CCI LR magnum primer. In normal temps this load averages 1250 FPS.
1242
1262
1260
Same load with a Winchester large rifle standard primer, averages 1200 fps at normal temps.
1235
1244
1258
As you can see I only shot 3 of each in this gun. I learned something here, I am just about immune to cold and even for me it was very painful to hold the steel lever on the gun with my bare hand when it is 110 degrees below my body temperature. It was very unpleasant. Both loads grouped 1-1/2 at 50 yards with peep sights and no noticeable change in POI.
300 Blackout
Here is where things get really interesting. I worked up these loads in my 16" blackout AR in november so they were loaded in a 60 degree shed and walked outside and shot when it was about 20-30 degrees. I have also shot both of the non magnum primer loads at an indoor range at 70 degrees with very mild pressure.
125 gr hornady pulled bullets, loaded to cannelure, 20 gr Hodgdon Lil Gun, S&B small rifle primer. This load averages 2464 in normal temps. I shot up to 21 grains with no pressure signs which is as much as I could stuff in the case but velocity did not increase.
NA (lost it in the snow)
2450 (brass not recovered)
2506 (flattened primer)
2529 (flattened primer small ejector mark)
2556 (blown primer)
Same load with CCI 41 mil spec magnum primer. I can't find my notes on it but I believe this averaged 2500 in normal temps. I should not have shot these given the results from the standard primer batch but I was curious
2568 (blown primer severe pressure signs, I dropped this piece of brass out of the action and later found it in my coat pocket)
2543 (blown primer severe pressure signs)
At this point I did not shoot any more of the Lil Gun loads. It appears this powder becomes very volatile at low temperatures. These loads did not show any pressure signs whatsoever at normal temps. I would advise using extreme caution when using Lil Gun at low temps.
125 gr hornady pulled bullets, loaded to cannelure, 19 gr Win 296, S&B small rifle primer. This load averages 2300 in normal temps
error
error
2292
2304
2267
Same load with CCI 41 mil spec magnum primer. This load at normal temps averages 2350 or so
2332
2328
2313
2384
2280
Takeaways on this rifle. 296 showed very little change from warm to cold. I will do some more accuracy testing with magnum primers for this setup since they get a bit more velocity with no more apparent pressure. 19 gr is about as much as I can get in the case. The bolt failed to go into battery on the first round of each group and I had to drop it a second time to get over the extractor. Worked fine after that. I will need to look at different lube and the extractor for winter usage. The 296 loads shot 1 moa. Beware of Lil Gun, its reputation as a crazy ex girlfriend powder are warranted.
444 Marlin
Next up my 444 Marlin Handi Rifle. This is a 22" barrel that I reamed the throat on for longer bullets. I shoot a Montana Bullet works 320 gr gas checked hard cast long flat nose sized to .432". I tested this load extensively this summer and fall.
320 gr cast bullet, 45 gr Reloader 7, S&B Large Rifle primer, loaded in crimp groove. This load shoots 2200 FPS at 70 degrees and 2100 at about 25 degrees.
1930 (shot 1" higher than normal at 100 yards)
1854 (shot about 2-1/2" higher than normal at 100)
1804 (Shot at least 6" lower than normal at 200 yards)
1842 (Held 6" higher than normal POA at 200 yards and hit my gong)
This rifle will get to stay home when the temp goes below 20 degrees. This much temp sensitivity could be enough to completely miss your game at 200 or more yards. I will be working with this to see if a magnum primer helps.
25-06 Tikka
Tikka T3 lite 22". These are my deer load and coyote load.
120 gr Federal Fusion pulled bullets, 53 gr RL19, Winchester large rifle primer. This load at normal temps shoots 3006 fps average.
2969
2951
2928
2965
2912
I was re sighting the scope with the first 4 shots shots since I had removed and reinstalled it since the last time I shot it. At 100 yards the 4th shot was an inch high at 100. 5th shot was at my 200 yard plates and hit 2" low.
87 gr Speer TNT hp, 57 gr H4831sc, Winchester Large rifle primer. This load at normal temps shoots about 3300 fps.
2921
2951
3033
These hit POA at 100 and 3" low at 200. These would normally be zero'd at 200. I am very surprised that H4831 turns out to be more temp sensitive than RL19. I was initially reluctant to use RL19 in my hunting load as I have heard it is very temp sensitive. Well turns out its more stable than H4831! I have checked the zero on the 87 gr loads in cold temps and they usually do go lower by mabey 3/4" at 100 but I never chronographed them in the cold. Very suprizing.
All of these results are very interesting to me and not at all what I expected.
First the results from Saturday. The thermometer read -1 F when I did this testing. I set my 357 magnum and my 300 blackout AR and ammo outside for an hour while I did other things and then shot them over the chrono.
Unfortunately it was early morning and I did not have the angle right on the chrono to get some sun and none of the 300 blackout rounds picked up.
Next the 4.2" 357 mag with a 125 grain Xtp, 21.5 gr of H110 (actually 296), federal sp magnum match primer. In 60 degree weather this averages right at 1500 fps.
1507
1475
1488
158 prvi HP with 15.4 gr 2400, S&B sp primer. This averages 1260 fps at 60 degrees.
1221
1241
1189
38 special target load, 125 berrys fp, 4 gr 700x, S&B primer. This averages 820 fps.
750
825
605 (felt noticeably softer)
Now for the next round of tests I loaded up a variety of experiment loads and also selected 3 of my hunting rifles to test with there standard loads. I picked this morning as the testing day because the weather channel said it would be the coldest morning this week and no wind. When I went to bed last night it was 27 below zero F but unfortunatly it warmed up overnight and was only -18 when I headed out to start testing. By the end of my testing it was about -10. I was hoping it would be colder than that but we get what we get. I left the guns and the ammo outside overnight so they were all fully temp stabilized by the time I shot. For the revolver, Marlin, and my AR I shot each group in about a minute or two and then switched to testing another gun with the action open to allow them to cool fully before the next group. With my Tikka and 444 I was walking to the target between each shot with the action left open so shots were at about 5 minute intervals.
This is not the order the groups were shot in, this is just how I'm organizing the data.
Ruger SP101 4.2" 357/38
357 magnum 125 gr Zero FP, 21.5 gr Win 296, S&B small pistol primer. I have not shot this load in warmer temps.
1397
error
1380
1329
1392
there was unburned powder left in all the cases which is unusual for 296
Same load with Federal small pistol magnum match primer. This load shoots right around 1500 at 60 degrees. No change in point of impact was noticed and they were very accurate.
1450
1435
1417
1395
1435
357 magnum 158 gr Prvi hp, 15.4 gr 2400, S&B small pistol primer. This load averages 1260 at normal temps. Very accurate
1184
1187
1187
1174
1240
Same load with Federal small pistol magnum match primer. This load averages 1320 at normal temps. This is a hot load and results in stiffer extraction than I like.
1284
1321
1312
1346
1331
38 Special 125 gr Berry's fp, 4.0 gr 700x, S&B small pistol primer. This load averages 820 fps at normal temps.
695
775
765
769
783
Same load with Federal small pistol magnum match primer. Never shot this at normal temps. These were notably louder and harder kicking.
810
785
801
764
787
All loads shot were just as accurate as normal. About 2" groups for all loads at 15 yards shot from a rest. I was not concentrating on maximum accuracy but did not notice any difference in accuracy. There was some POI shift due to the velocity changes. The 158 loads with 2400 were the most accurate today.
45-70 guide gun
Next up to test was my Marlin 1895 45-70 guide gun. My normal load with this gun is a 350 gr Oregon Trail hard cast bullet over 19 gr of Trailboss with an old lot of CCI LR magnum primer. In normal temps this load averages 1250 FPS.
1242
1262
1260
Same load with a Winchester large rifle standard primer, averages 1200 fps at normal temps.
1235
1244
1258
As you can see I only shot 3 of each in this gun. I learned something here, I am just about immune to cold and even for me it was very painful to hold the steel lever on the gun with my bare hand when it is 110 degrees below my body temperature. It was very unpleasant. Both loads grouped 1-1/2 at 50 yards with peep sights and no noticeable change in POI.
300 Blackout
Here is where things get really interesting. I worked up these loads in my 16" blackout AR in november so they were loaded in a 60 degree shed and walked outside and shot when it was about 20-30 degrees. I have also shot both of the non magnum primer loads at an indoor range at 70 degrees with very mild pressure.
125 gr hornady pulled bullets, loaded to cannelure, 20 gr Hodgdon Lil Gun, S&B small rifle primer. This load averages 2464 in normal temps. I shot up to 21 grains with no pressure signs which is as much as I could stuff in the case but velocity did not increase.
NA (lost it in the snow)
2450 (brass not recovered)
2506 (flattened primer)
2529 (flattened primer small ejector mark)
2556 (blown primer)
Same load with CCI 41 mil spec magnum primer. I can't find my notes on it but I believe this averaged 2500 in normal temps. I should not have shot these given the results from the standard primer batch but I was curious
2568 (blown primer severe pressure signs, I dropped this piece of brass out of the action and later found it in my coat pocket)
2543 (blown primer severe pressure signs)
At this point I did not shoot any more of the Lil Gun loads. It appears this powder becomes very volatile at low temperatures. These loads did not show any pressure signs whatsoever at normal temps. I would advise using extreme caution when using Lil Gun at low temps.
125 gr hornady pulled bullets, loaded to cannelure, 19 gr Win 296, S&B small rifle primer. This load averages 2300 in normal temps
error
error
2292
2304
2267
Same load with CCI 41 mil spec magnum primer. This load at normal temps averages 2350 or so
2332
2328
2313
2384
2280
Takeaways on this rifle. 296 showed very little change from warm to cold. I will do some more accuracy testing with magnum primers for this setup since they get a bit more velocity with no more apparent pressure. 19 gr is about as much as I can get in the case. The bolt failed to go into battery on the first round of each group and I had to drop it a second time to get over the extractor. Worked fine after that. I will need to look at different lube and the extractor for winter usage. The 296 loads shot 1 moa. Beware of Lil Gun, its reputation as a crazy ex girlfriend powder are warranted.
444 Marlin
Next up my 444 Marlin Handi Rifle. This is a 22" barrel that I reamed the throat on for longer bullets. I shoot a Montana Bullet works 320 gr gas checked hard cast long flat nose sized to .432". I tested this load extensively this summer and fall.
320 gr cast bullet, 45 gr Reloader 7, S&B Large Rifle primer, loaded in crimp groove. This load shoots 2200 FPS at 70 degrees and 2100 at about 25 degrees.
1930 (shot 1" higher than normal at 100 yards)
1854 (shot about 2-1/2" higher than normal at 100)
1804 (Shot at least 6" lower than normal at 200 yards)
1842 (Held 6" higher than normal POA at 200 yards and hit my gong)
This rifle will get to stay home when the temp goes below 20 degrees. This much temp sensitivity could be enough to completely miss your game at 200 or more yards. I will be working with this to see if a magnum primer helps.
25-06 Tikka
Tikka T3 lite 22". These are my deer load and coyote load.
120 gr Federal Fusion pulled bullets, 53 gr RL19, Winchester large rifle primer. This load at normal temps shoots 3006 fps average.
2969
2951
2928
2965
2912
I was re sighting the scope with the first 4 shots shots since I had removed and reinstalled it since the last time I shot it. At 100 yards the 4th shot was an inch high at 100. 5th shot was at my 200 yard plates and hit 2" low.
87 gr Speer TNT hp, 57 gr H4831sc, Winchester Large rifle primer. This load at normal temps shoots about 3300 fps.
2921
2951
3033
These hit POA at 100 and 3" low at 200. These would normally be zero'd at 200. I am very surprised that H4831 turns out to be more temp sensitive than RL19. I was initially reluctant to use RL19 in my hunting load as I have heard it is very temp sensitive. Well turns out its more stable than H4831! I have checked the zero on the 87 gr loads in cold temps and they usually do go lower by mabey 3/4" at 100 but I never chronographed them in the cold. Very suprizing.
All of these results are very interesting to me and not at all what I expected.
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