Colt 1851 vs 1860

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BullRunBear

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Hi Folks,

I had a chance to handle an 1851 Navy the other day and really enjoyed the feel. I didn't get to fire it but it pointed beautifully. My only cap and ball is an older Ruger Old Army stainless, 7 1/2 inch barrel and adjustable sights. Being restricted to the ROA is no hardship. But, dang, that Colt felt good!

Is there any advantage or difference in feel between the 1851 Navy and 1860 Army? This would be for casual targets and plinking and caliber doesn't matter. I'm sure I could get used to the notch in the hammer nose sighting setup, although it looked strange at first. I've read that Pietta is now on a par with Uberti for quality and they usually seem to be less expensive than Uberti. I would be looking for a steel frame.

I find I'm spending more and more of my shooting time with black powder guns of all types. Whether I'm getting older or wiser, the black powder pace is increasingly appealing. Plus I may be getting addicted to the smell of the smoke. :D

Thanks for any suggestions. With Christmas coming up, it would be nice to break in a new gun as a winter project. (Any excuse, right?)

Regards, Jeff
 
Howdy Jeff,

As to Navy vs Army, I would say find a shop where you can handle both and buy the one that feels better in your hand since they have very different grips.

I don’t think accuracy is going to be any different betwixt the two. Obviously the Army is going to punch a bigger hole.

I chose the Navy. It felt better in my hand and I like the octagonal barrel. Also the Navy has unique place in the development of the revolver- the first practical belt model. Of course the Army is no slouch in the historical department either.

I further refined my choice to Uberti’s London Navy since that had a steel back strap and trigger guard as opposed to brass. Strictly a personal choice.

Uberti or Pietta? Like I said, I chose Uberti and got a good one. Both companies can produce lemons so buy from an outfit that has a good return or exchange policy. (I got mine on sale from Midway) I like that Uberti is more discreet about stamping the various warnings and such.

Have fun with whichever you pick. Then buy the other too!

LG Roy
 
The larger grip of the 1860 was more for use with the thick bulky Calvaryman's gauntlets of the day.
Its very useful if you have large hands or doing your shooting in cold weather while wearing gloves.
Its good for a two handed hold, and I suppose its a better choice if a shoulder stock is to be fitted. The Navy never had a shoulderstock as a standard accesory, though there are a few custom ordered Navy pistols with a variety of stock mounting systems.
The Peacemaker went back to the Navy sized grip.

I've always prefered the 51 Navy, if I get a .44 I'll go with a Dragoon. I've shot the Walker many times, it has an attraction all its own.
 
Sounds like you might have been bit by the Colt bug. I have both guns, I like the 1860 Army grip better than the Navy. I like both guns and don't want to choose between the two as a favorite. You will probally own both before it is over, so you can't go wrong with either one. Then you will have to get a Walker too!

I don't know how much you want to spend, but there is a lot of real "Colt" pistols on auction at GunBroker.Com. I think the fit and finish is top of the line.
 
K.A.T.'s advice is right on the mark; I, too, own both guns and would find it hard to choose between them. They are not the same - each has it's personality, but as to 'favorite', well, that's hard to say.

I would not say Pietta and Uberti are equal in terms of quality. Pietta has significantly improved their quality in the past few years, so I'd feel comfortable buying one. Both companies can still produce a lemon every now and then, and the odds of getting one are about the same. However, Ubertis are still a notch higher (in my opinion) in finish details, in general (one can find examples of each to refute that, but I think they're rare).

The Second Generation Colts are, of course, well beyond either company, as the prices would imply.
 
Guys,

Thanks so much for the information. I found a gun shop not too far away that has several cap and ball revolvers to handle including a Uberti 1851 Navy for $289.00, which seems to be in the ballpark for price. I plan to get there tomorrow or Saturday. (Got to get some other supplies there anyway.) I hope they have some Pietta pieces as well for comparison. It seems that there is an advantage in being able to examine the specific guns.

Based on your comments I will probably like the grip on the 1851 better than the 1860. Despite having very large hands, I prefer smaller grips on revolvers. They are just more comfortable for me and I shoot them a bit better. I like the grip on the New Vacquero and 50th Anniversary Blackhawk 357 much better than the standard Blackhawk grip. Having said that, I don't doubt I'll eventually end up with both. I have to save up anyhow. The real Colts are WAY out of my price range. In the meantime, I'll just have to "suffer" along with the Old Army. (Yeah, right!)

Hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving. After the turkey is in the oven, I'll be assembling the gear for a good black powder shooting session with my wife this weekend. And I'm very thankful for that.

Regards, Jeff
 
There is without question a huge advantage in being able to handle a gun before buying it. Never, ever buy a gun (even a brand new one) sight unseen without a written guarantee of the right to return it after a suitable inspection period.
 
I own several models of the Colt second generation and the Signature Series. My favorites, and the ones I cowboy shoot with is a pair of '61 Navies.

Best of luck to you.
 
Hi,

Following the good advice in this thread, I got to handle several Uberti Colts. To my VAST surprise, the 1860 Army was the most comfortable and balanced in my hand. Even my wife, with her small hands, agreed. (What a different feel from the ROA!) The finish is excellent and the action feels smooth. It came home with us and will be cleaned tonight. Hope to get out to the range tomorrow.

I appreciate the help. Not only do I have a new toy, I can share another part of shooting with my wife. The ROA is simply too heavy for her without a rest but the 1860 was very comfortable and steady. She has an old Dixie Cub 40 cal. rifle that she shoots well and now she can add a revolver to her fun.

I'll post a range report once I get out there.

Regards, Jeff
 
Sixgun MAK,

This Dixie Cub is a 40 cal. percussion. The stock and barrel weight/length was designed for youngsters and small adults. The 40 caliber is no longer offered by Dixie but they still have it in 32, 36, and 45. I'm the third or fourth owner; got it from another shooter at our local gun club. It shows its years but still shoots like a champ. (Meaning it shoots better than I can shoot it.) It only weighs 5 pounds and has great balance. My wife is 5 feet tall (I am 6' 5") and my other blackpowder rifles are just too heavy and awkward for her but this rifle fits her very well.

Oddly, it shoots best with a .400 round ball and a .010 patch. When I used it at a local muzzleloader silhoette (sp?) match, it knocked over steel targets at a hundred meters with a 30 grain charge of FFFG. Not bad for such a little gun. And recoil is minimal. At closer ranges, I can get by with a 15 or 20 grain load which turns it into a true powder puff rifle.

If the current crop of Cubs is as good, they should be sweet guns. If I still hunted (no time) I would love to get one in 32 cal. for squirrel hunting.

Regards, Jeff
 
Of the two Italian made revolvers, I would prefer the Uberti; Pietta has had spotty quality control at times and unless you know how to check out a percussion revolver, stick to Uberti.

Jim
 
Folks,

WOW!! (details follow):

Just tried the Uberti 1860 Army at the range yesterday. It was just above freezing, windy, and in the shade so my fingers got a bit cold. 20 grs. FFFg powder, wonder wad, .454 ball, CCI #10 caps (#11's are too big), 25 yds off-hand. The gun is dead on for windage but shot about 10" high. To say I'm pleased is a vast understatement.

Observations (which are totally subjective):

recoil is minimal (comfortable for my wife and almost unfelt by me)

the "boom" is louder than expected especially for the amount of recoil, but I like the noise

best balance in a revolver I've ever felt; the only thing close is my 50th Anniversary .357 Blackhawk

shot it better one handed than with my usual two handed stance (unheard of for me)

had a 3 shot group that touched; lots of luck involved since I'm not a great marksman but it shows the superb accuracy inherent in this gun

VERY different feel from the ROA (no surprise) and shot it as well as the ROA with its adjustable sights although I like both

next time out I will try it with .457 balls; the .454 left only a barest hint of shaved lead; if it prefers the .457s, which I use in the ROA, it will be convenient and one less thing to carry

the caps split and fell off as the next shot was lined up; none fell into the innards

have to be sure the caps are seated tightly

the cyclinder/barrel gap is very tight and things got stiff after about 18 shots; one wet patch down the barrel, one dry patch, and it was ready to go

cleaned up easily after 48 rounds with hot soapy water followed by a wipe down, inside and out, with T/C Bore Butter (thank God for that stuff)

a Ted Cash goose neck capper (from Track of the Wolf) fits perfectly; I use one, in german silver, for the ROA; I plan to get another in brass for the different size caps for the 1860 (I have never liked straight-line cappers)

This gun is so comforatble and points so well, I can see how it helped usher in the era of the gunfighter; in a cross draw holster it would be especially fast and deadly.

The Future:

Now comes more fun as I play with different powder loads/filler, etc to find out what the gun prefers. I have the 1860, the ROA and a CVA Kentucky pistol (my first BP gun, built many years ago from a kit when I didn't know if I was making a pistol or a hand grenade), so I'm going to put up a BP handgun box with the items needed for a good long range session. If I don't have to spend an hour assembling the gear, I'm more likely to get to the range with time to shoot.

Sorry to be so long-winded but, as you can tell, I'm pretty hyped up about the new toy.

Regards, Jeff

PS: I just recently got digital camera so I'll try to get a photo of the Dixie Cub to post.
 
Blackpowder Box

Go to Wal-Mart and buy you a Plano 8600 tackle box. Don't buy a smaller one, you will probably buy more pistols and add more gadgets as you go along. I've allready filled mine up. It has room in the bottom for powder and balls and tools, you can put all the little stuff in the fold out trays.

Sounds like the 1860 was a lot of fun.
 
Hi, been off here for a couple of days. Just reading up on here a little. You know, I had no idea there would be so many people on here who own or like Walkers. As ya'll know if you'vd ever been unfortunate enough to stumble across any of my posts, I am a Walker man. God, I love that piece of iron! Well, I knew within reason that I wasn't the only person who had one; surely other people were buying them to, but I never met many Walker people at all until I started reading this site. I was going to be back out in the morning but I think it's gonna rain all night so I guess the deer won't be moving around much. In Feb (about 3 months) I'm gonna get that Third Model Dragoon. That's a good looking revolver. It won't ever hold a place in my heart like the Walker does, but I really like the way it looks. When I get off of here I'm going to get on Cabela's site and look at the Navies and the Armies. I know within reason I'll never buy one but I have heard a lot of people speak about how well balanced and all they are.Well, anyway...Okay...
 
My forbearers carried the first Colts - first Patersons, then Walkers, then Army's and Peacemakers, and finally New Army 1917's and 1911's. I don't see a problem with progress - today that's Ruger and my choice is the Old Army.

Army/Navy will settle in a few hours for the year, then SMU gets Navy's coach. Navy and NT were a perfect example of two objects thoroughly out of balance in a weird sort of synchronicity that made for anomaly. The mustangs (colts if you will) can be expected to be equally out of balance.

Issues of Army/Navy discussion are best confined to football and Colts. Serious BP revolver shooting begins/ends today with the Ruger Old Army. If you can't find your needs met out of the box, try us. If it's more extreme, go to David Clements. This goes for hunting, bullseye, silhouette, and action. You'll note that cabinet appeal is not in the list, but cabinet guns never carried the mail.

Wisent
Classicballistx
[email protected]
 
I have a sample of every Colt model from 1837 to 1862 except a Dragoon and a Root Sidehammer. I also have a Kentucky pistol, a Remington, Spiller & Burr and a Griswold & Gunnison. I just got a Ruger.

The Ruger is the best made, most convenient, probably the most accurate, but there's something about the feel and history of a Paterson, the incredible boom of the Walker, the balance of the 1851 Navy, the beauty of the 1860 Army. The Remington is actually easier to use than the Ruger and very accurate. The smaller Colts, the 1849 Pocket .31, and the 1862 Pocket Police .36, are not as convenient to shoot, but they are fun.

My favorite gun? The one I'm shooting that day.
 
My first C&B pistol was my walker then I bought a 51 navy,I have a friend that has a ruger not sure what model and a Remmy i belive that one is a 58not sure. I have fired both his and still perfer my Colts actually so does he. He has just ordered a Walker from Dixie because I refuse to sell him mine.(When I die it is going with me). Not putting down the Ruger or the Remmies I just like the feel of a colt they feel right in my hands. AND the cost of a Ruger is out of sight just way to much money. Remmies are a little better but still not cost effective. For the money you cant beat a Colt.(But I am bias)
 
The Ruger that I recently bought was made in 1973. I bought it on Auction Arms or Gunbroker (can't remember which). It came with a holster. Price? $285. It's an oldie but a goodie. They're so well made, you can buy an older one and know it'll still be a shooter.
I bought the Pietta Remington at a store in Maine for $200.00. It came with two extra cylinders and a pouch to hold them in, and a holster. I sold the two cylinders, which really brought the price of the gun way down.
My point is that there are still good deals out there. These guns are like the old Lays potato chip ad - "bet you can't shoot just one."

The gun that gets handled the most, but will never be fired, is an old dug-up A.S.T.C. HERO that I bought for $35 at an antique shop. The barrel unscrews.

S4020046-2.gif
 
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