Patrick Henry said;
Ordinarily you don't. However you just stated you have more knowledge about criminals then someone who has 22 years experience dealing with them. So it's only fair to ask you where you gained your knowledge. Come on Patrick, where did you get your knowledge of criminals? Have you ever even met one?
All a permit means is that the person didn't have a record when he or she was issued the permit. I'll base my assessment on how dangerous a person might be on a lot of factors, but the fact that he passed a cursory records check isn't one of them.
CHP holders are NOT violent people.
I'm sure that officer Miktarian's wife and his three month old daughter are comforted by that every day.
The day an officer becomes complacent enough to let his guard down around a person simply because that person belongs to any group is the day he needs to find a new job.
It only took one CCW holder to murder an officer. Out of all those other permits out there nationwide, you expect me to believe that he was the one and only permit holder who shouldn't have had one? Are you in a position to personally guarantee the conduct of every other CCW holder in the country? I think you are only in a position to guarantee your conduct.
Who said that you get to remain in your car for the duration of the stop? You would most likely be in the backseat of the squad behind the cage. This eliminates the danger of you accessing other weapons that might be in the car.
When I stop you for a violation I have probable cause that a violation has occurred or you wouldn't be stopped. I suppose you are you're just a suspected speeder. Everyone is treated with caution.
I certainly wouldn't advise making that argument on the street. Or in court for that matter. There are all kinds of precedents giving the police the ok to disarm for officer safety. I think you'd lose.
Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff White
What do you personally know about people who commit crimes? How many years experience do you have in LE or corrections? Are you a criminologist? Sociologist? Time to put up or shut up Patrick. Let's see the creds that give you more of an understanding of the people who commit crimes then me.
I wasn't aware I needed to give credentials to express an opinion here.
Ordinarily you don't. However you just stated you have more knowledge about criminals then someone who has 22 years experience dealing with them. So it's only fair to ask you where you gained your knowledge. Come on Patrick, where did you get your knowledge of criminals? Have you ever even met one?
What I am saying is confirming somebody has a permit ought to markedly reduce that suspicion in your mind, at least insofar as fear of a violent confrontation.
All a permit means is that the person didn't have a record when he or she was issued the permit. I'll base my assessment on how dangerous a person might be on a lot of factors, but the fact that he passed a cursory records check isn't one of them.
CHP holders are NOT violent people.
I'm sure that officer Miktarian's wife and his three month old daughter are comforted by that every day.
The day an officer becomes complacent enough to let his guard down around a person simply because that person belongs to any group is the day he needs to find a new job.
And if you want statistics to prove that, I say just count the number of permit holders in this country. There's your statistic. You can have neither violence, alcohol, nor mental health history and get these permits.
It only took one CCW holder to murder an officer. Out of all those other permits out there nationwide, you expect me to believe that he was the one and only permit holder who shouldn't have had one? Are you in a position to personally guarantee the conduct of every other CCW holder in the country? I think you are only in a position to guarantee your conduct.
Even if you take the weapon I'm carrying, InTune is absolutely right, what if the guy has another gun in the car? In fact, I personally often do carry a second gun in the car simply because my carry piece is not easily reachable sitting down. My understanding is, in a simple traffic stop, you do not automatically have cause to search my person or my vehicle.
Who said that you get to remain in your car for the duration of the stop? You would most likely be in the backseat of the squad behind the cage. This eliminates the danger of you accessing other weapons that might be in the car.
Except that you don't ultimately decide whether I broke the law, but a court.
That's why I would be referred to as a "suspect." Until then I am no criminal. You have to respect people even if you don't trust them. I'm sure you do, but I'm just saying it.
When I stop you for a violation I have probable cause that a violation has occurred or you wouldn't be stopped. I suppose you are you're just a suspected speeder. Everyone is treated with caution.
Of course if police ask me if I am armed, I guess I would answer truthfully. But honestly -- and I address this not just to Officer White but to everybody -- I don't see that in a simple traffic stop, where I am otherwise compliant, the police have the right to disarm me. Imagine this: I'm not in my car but walking down the street and I'm jaywalking, so a cop stops me and starts writing a citation. I'm fully cooperative. Does he have the right to disarm me? Strictly speaking, I would think not. He cannot search or seize at that point. Now if I'm held at gunpoint and ordered to disarm, I guess I won't have a choice will I? Whether I will in fact disarm if requested is another matter...but I do not believe I am required to.
I certainly wouldn't advise making that argument on the street. Or in court for that matter. There are all kinds of precedents giving the police the ok to disarm for officer safety. I think you'd lose.
Jeff