Concentricity; THR cost me $130!

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Once upon a time, I was a new reloader, turning out ammo and just happy when it went bang. The I discovered THR Handloading and Reloading and I began to worry about powder temperature stability, and wet tumbling versus dry tumbling, and optimal OAL, and whether a small SD or small ES was more important in a load. And finally, recently, wondering if my runout was up to par.

So I just this week purchased a Hornady L-N-L Concentricity Gauge and found time today to check a bunch of ammo. And every rifle caliber I reload, 223, 224, 243, 308, 300 B/O, my already reloaded ammo was all within 0.001-0.002, sometimes not even twitching the needle.:what: The only exception was the 6.5 Creedmore, which had 4 rounds out of 20 that were between 0.003 and 0.004 runout. What a waste of time and money when I don't have a range nearby over 100 yards!

Any ideas why my previously untested runout is so decent? Is it simply because I use almost all Hornady ELD's or Match rounds to load rifle and Hornady is just so darned consistent in ogive? (I have some 90 grain Berger rounds in 224Valk, but those are the only non-Hornady round I've loaded recently).

Just for the record, all those loads are loaded with Lee Pacesetter die sets on a Lee Breechlock Single Stage.:neener: So much for precision dies at 3-4X the prices and all the red vs. green vs. blue battles. And I have yet to try the recommended "trick" of seating a bullet and then rotating the cartridge and seating it again.

Someday, I'm going to have to find a 1000yd range to shoot at and try that concentricity gauge again. But until then, it's going onto the shelf. My $130 bought me peace of mind, I guess.

And you guys need to stop leading me towards the bottomless pit of reloading perfection!
 
Once upon a time, I was a new reloader, turning out ammo and just happy when it went bang. The I discovered THR Handloading and Reloading and I began to worry about powder temperature stability, and wet tumbling versus dry tumbling, and optimal OAL, and whether a small SD or small ES was more important in a load. And finally, recently, wondering if my runout was up to par.

So I just this week purchased a Hornady L-N-L Concentricity Gauge and found time today to check a bunch of ammo. And every rifle caliber I reload, 223, 224, 243, 308, 300 B/O, my already reloaded ammo was all within 0.001-0.002, sometimes not even twitching the needle.:what: The only exception was the 6.5 Creedmore, which had 4 rounds out of 20 that were between 0.003 and 0.004 runout. What a waste of time and money when I don't have a range nearby over 100 yards!

Any ideas why my previously untested runout is so decent? Is it simply because I use almost all Hornady ELD's or Match rounds to load rifle and Hornady is just so darned consistent in ogive? (I have some 90 grain Berger rounds in 224Valk, but those are the only non-Hornady round I've loaded recently).

Just for the record, all those loads are loaded with Lee Pacesetter die sets on a Lee Breechlock Single Stage.:neener: So much for precision dies at 3-4X the prices and all the red vs. green vs. blue battles. And I have yet to try the recommended "trick" of seating a bullet and then rotating the cartridge and seating it again.

Someday, I'm going to have to find a 1000yd range to shoot at and try that concentricity gauge again. But until then, it's going onto the shelf. My $130 bought me peace of mind, I guess.

And you guys need to stop leading me towards the bottomless pit of reloading perfection!
Now that you have one , test the best against the worst on paper at the greatest distance you can find , then you could sell it and get most of your money back.
 
I literally just dropped another $570.00 on a Blackhawk .41... I haven’t even had time to pay for it yet and I’m already perusing Chigs grips for blanks... THR is not the place for savers or the strong willed. :)

But there’s no place I’d rather go for good info about my favorite hobby.

Shhhhh! Black Friday sales are coming soon... that’ll surely put a dent in your wallet. ;)

Stay safe.
 
If $130 is all THR has cost you, you've done well. Seriously.
That's right, and can't promise.

Bottomless pit? Hmmmm

Well, precision reloading for rifles is all about knowing how each cartridge component custom fits the chamber of your rifle. Concentricity is but one part of the whole. If you're happy with the accuracy of your reloads, congratulations!

If you're trying to hit prairie dogs at 300-yards or ring plates at 600+ yards and having problems, then hitch up your pants and start studying. Going sub-MOA is a whole 'nother world, and the cost of a concentricity gauge is going to be the least of your problems. Headspace and OAL gauges, shoulder bump methods, the art of bullet seating, neck tension and on, and on. Oh, and scopes and getting them mounted up solid, good triggers, stock bedding/pilar bedding, let's see ........ Ladder testing or Overall Capacity Testing .......

More like down a rabbit hole with Alice!

At least with the Hornady LNL concentricity gauge, you can adjust the runout should you need to. It's not money down the tube.
 
I blame my Bevy of BM's and Gang of Garand's on the High Road. My wanna-bee mentality has cost me thousands in piles of pistols so far. Thanks THR! :)
Now my wife can't spend the money of stupid stuff!
 
Get in with the 1,000 yard benchrest shooting guys and see what you spend on reloading equipment and the time to go through all the steps to come up with a set of match rounds.

Bob
 
$130....?...grins. You got off easy. It would take a while to go through all of the receipts to come up with a figure. I suspect for 2020 somewhere in the neighborhood of $3500 - $4000.

Why? Because this makes an indelible grin.

Stats - Average 2939.51 fps
Stats - Highest 2947.21 fps
Stats - Lowest 2931.19 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 16.02 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 7.2 fps

IMG_0401 (1).jpeg

.40
 
I would have added an AMP Annealing machine to your wish list

If I shot more, it would be very tempting. At present, others complain about the primer pockets on 224Valk getting loose. I'm losing brass after 3-5 reloads with split necks.

Get in with the 1,000 yard benchrest shooting guys and see what you spend on reloading equipment

When I retire rkittine.....although I'll probably be shaky enough by then that any hits will be best labeled as "accidental."
 
I didn’t spend any money but did spend some time making a couple of them for testing. Total indicated runout will depend on the type of gauge, point of measurement and or point of contact.

The rim/tip style like the Hornady are the fastest to use but are not as versatile as far as information one can get from them.

B83F86B4-2D76-4EEA-AA6F-2D709859753E.jpeg

I tend to use this one more as I can measure just the case (inside or outside the neck), loaded rounds from pretty much any point. Like below the shoulder.

C0E667AA-4D44-4E2B-9FE1-16A8344758BA.jpeg
At the shoulder.
AE90FD0B-309C-4047-92AF-6D1E8E98371B.jpeg
Even inside wall thickness.

899B99EA-FA06-45F0-9DDE-3069597A2DE3.jpeg 544F150F-501F-40F9-9B31-99E480FCD368.jpeg



To further your experiment, take your 6.5 loads that have a TIR of .004, and mark have of them cases on the high side, and chambered them all with the mark at 12:00 and see how they group vs the same amount of runout ammunition that is randomly chambered.
 
@jmorris
A couple questions if I may;
What would hope to learn regarding consentricity with the inside the case wall tool measuring at the .200 line ?

While indexing rounds to 12:00 are you testing for or suggesting there is in bore Yaw ?
J
 
Learn more information about the case and process. With a micrometer we can measure case wall thickness but we can’t measure the runout of a fired case (where I like to start) to get an idea of the chamber. We can measure the OD/ID of a sized case too, with and without expanders (both pull out and push in types) as well as lubes and methods of lubing, and see the difference quantitatively.

If we had rounds with a TIR of .004 that is over 360 degrees, if we zeroed in the middle that would be +/- .002. If we then marked the + .002 at the top and chambered them all the same, we would cut the error in half vs randomly chambering them.
 
People used to index cases to try to increase accuracy, so if we measure them we have a better way to index.

Not feasible for some types of shooting.
 
People used to index cases to try to increase accuracy, so if we measure them we have a better way to index.

Some even rotate the cases incrementally as they seat the bullet in steps.

These tools are a great way to know if you are making a better end product vs just think you are because it's a more laborious and time consuming process.
 
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