considering a full size revolver

[The Alaskan]

I agree. Once you get past about 6" and definitely once you hit 8" in a revolver, you may as well dump the revolver and go to a trapper carbine length lever gun in the same caliber.

In my view, and 8" barrel handgun is just dumb. If for no other reason, the increased difficulty in drawing and presenting it to a target (e.g. a bear).

 

[justin22885]

yup, i see no point going over 5 inches for any handgun.. so what are your thoughts on the old new service colts, and their rival smith and wesson revolvers of the era?.. colt doesnt make any anymore and the new smiths are... well.. trigger locks.. so vintage colt or a vintage smith

:-o do i want a revolver that turns clockwise, or counterclockwise, so hard to decide.. but sarcasm aside, i think the pull release on the colts looks pretty counter-intuitive in my opinion, but the impression with smiths is theyre so tightly put together that they maybe wont handle dirty conditions as well

__

so what do i want a revolver for?.. to basically fill in an all purpose role my everyday carry pistol cant.. for full size, open carry, to be able to deliver more power further down range and with better accuracy.. an all purpose pistol that can handle any situation, be it home defense, self defense (OC style) hunting various wildlife to fend off starvation, save my brass since i do handload for just about everything.. it just seems to me all those needs are best served with a revolver than an automatic.. i would like a 45 colt that can handle higher pressured loads, or an 8 shot 357, but for reasons previously stated i fully intend to avoid new revolvers

and although im not really thinking about single actions, im not entirely opposed to it for obvious reasons of added simplicity in the lockwork

 

[tomrkba]

THE LOCK will only come into play with hot rounds with heavy bullets. In 357, that means hot 180's or 200 grain bulletin . THE LOCK can be removed and a guy on the S&W Forum sells a plug. I had it self-lock once on my 625. Just pull it out. Any defensive arguements are satisfied by stating it is a STORAGE device, not a safety.

 

[huntsman]

i would like a 45 colt that can handle higher pressured loads

and although im not really thinking about single actions, im not entirely opposed to it for obvious reasons of added simplicity in the lockwork

Ruger Blackhawk .45 convertible

 

[Jim Watson]

what are your thoughts on the old new service colts, and their rival smith and wesson revolvers of the era?..

i would like a 45 colt that can handle higher pressured loads,


You can't have it both ways.
A New Service is a big stout gun but it does not have the quality of steel to hold up to modern overloads.
Smith & Wesson did not make .45 Colts until up in the 1970s and even then is a pretty slender gun.

Your best bet would be a Redhawk.

 

[justin22885]

i believe i said hot 45 colts, or 357 mag and the NSR is available in 357 mag if im not mistaken.. though, im not sure how many rounds are in the 357 version, my measures are you could fit about 8 into the same size cylinder with more than enough "meat" between each chamber, but im guessing its only a 6-shot

 

[Jim Watson]

Depends on what you mean by "available."
Colt hasn't made a New Service in 75 years and a good one is a high priced collector's item.
They didn't make a whole lot of the "modern" large frame Anacondas, either; and the speculators are jacking the prices up on them, too.

 

[justin22885]

what are the pressure limitations of the 45 colt in the NSR?.. i know theyre chambered in 45acp at 21000+ PSI with a similar internal diameter, if you could bump 45 colt pressures up to 45acp pressures, youd have a pretty big boost in muzzle energy.. theoretically if it can handle the ACPs, it should be able to handle hotter colts too, right?.. maybe not 44 mag levels of pressure, but surely 45acp levels?

 

[gbran]

S&W Mod 627 (N-Frame), 8 round, 357/38 snubbie



Believe it or not, I can and do carry this concealed using pancake holster.

 

[IWAC]

Look at S&W L frames or Ruger GP100's. Primarily 38 Special/357 Magnum...QUOTE]

I do love revolvers!
Also, Smith and Ruger offer .44 Mag. revolvers, which shoot .44 Special cartridges, too.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Brett Byers AKA Slow]

Have you considered a Ruger Redhawk 45 Colt/45 Auto 4"? A good pancake holster with a gun belt open or concealed carry. Either round for defense and Colt for however hot you want to shoot.

 

[justin22885]

ive considered the colt new service, redhawk, super redhawk, and N frame smith... in order of which i like more so far

a cool think about the super redhawk is how much pressure it can take.. 50,000 PSI + so if im making rimless cartridges on old 308 brass i can pretty much load them as hot as i feel like, but whats also cool about the super redhawk is how i can hack off the front couple inches of the barrel for a 5=5-1/2 inch barrel then press and pin on a new component thatll give me an underbarrel rail for a light, a new front sight base, and i could leave enough of the muzzle exposed to thread it for compensators, muzzle brakes, etc

so, i think the super redhawk could be a very versatile weapon.. and when it runs out of ammo it can be used as a sledgehammer

and considering for the cost of once-fired .308 brass, cast bullets, rifle primers, i can make .454 casull about as cheap as you could buy 45acp

 

[justin22885]

hmm.. so the ruger redhawk 45 colt / 45acp convertible has the cut for moon clips, so if i wanted to load up some really hot 45 colt loads using .308 brass, this would be the revolver to go with.. moon clips would allow me to use the rimless brass cut down from .308, better option than the super redhawk, so i'll eliminate the super redhawk, narrow my choices down to a new service revolver in standard pressure 45 colt, a smith 627 8-shot 357 revolver, or the ruger redhawk 45c/45acp

 

[The Alaskan]

so what are your thoughts on the old new service colts, and their rival smith and wesson revolvers of the era?.. colt doesnt make any anymore and the new smiths are... well.. trigger locks.. so vintage colt or a vintage smith

A few of the guys here have already beat me to is, so some of this will just echo them.

I really enjoy the old Colts, but the steel is softer than in modern guns. (Made up for, in my opinion by superior craftsmanship from a bygone era.)

Being from Alaska, bears are first and foremost in my mind (even though bear encounters are actually quite rare) so to me, that means heavy handloads or HSM Bear loads in hard cast lead wide flat nose projectiles. That pretty much rules out the vintage guns, other than the Colt "snake" guns, and as someone already mentioned, the collector value has made them very high dollar. Could you imagine dropping a python or cobra into a creek?

For the kind of work you are looking to do (open carry/field revolver), if it were me in my northern environment, I'd go with a stainless steel Ruger revolver of some sort. Which one can almost be a personal preference. If you're going with 357 (versatile and capable, a little lightweight on bears but better than nothing) then the GP100 or Security Six will serve you well and your son and your grandson. (One of the things I like about the Rugers and the vintage Colts is their durability.) If you're going to go with a 44 then one of the "hawk" type Rugers is your game. You could save 50 and by blued, but the higher maintenance of the blued gun, in a constant outdoor environment, warrants stainless.

I don't consider modern Smith & Wessons anymore, and even the vintage 29's won't hold up to the pounding of heavy handloads.

But like I said, my open carry field gun is my Colt PPS in 32-20, built in 1930, but it is not intended for anything other than small game. I have another gun for bears.

 

[The Alaskan]

hmm.. so the ruger redhawk 45 colt / 45acp convertible has the cut for moon clips, so if i wanted to load up some really hot 45 colt loads using .308 brass, this would be the revolver to go with.. moon clips would allow me to use the rimless brass cut down from .308, better option than the super redhawk, so i'll eliminate the super redhawk, narrow my choices down to a new service revolver in standard pressure 45 colt, a smith 627 8-shot 357 revolver, or the ruger redhawk 45c/45acp

I know some guys up here who are handloading 45 LC to what approaches the lower end of 454 casull statistics. Just a thought.

 

[justin22885]

I know some guys up here who are handloading 45 LC to what approaches the lower end of 454 casull statistics. Just a thought.

do you know what pressures theyre loading them to?.. would one handle .460 rowland?

 

[justin22885]

first and foremost, i want durability, reliability.. something that is very unlikely to ever break down.. i dont need the tightest tolerances, but i want strength and longevity, and the simplicity to know parts will probably not break but if they do, theyre relatively easy to replace.. even if i have to make some of them myself

with this in mind.. lets stick to rugers for one moment as i ask one question.. fire rate aside, which revolver is the most "rugged", reliable, and durable, the redhawk, or the single action blackhawk?.. i do understand a blackhawk cannot be used with moon clips.. though, why hasnt anyone ever fitted their cartridges with e-clips/c-clips for headspacing rimless cases?

 

[Jim Watson]

A friend wore out a Blackhawk but it took a LOT of shooting with HEAVY loads and Ruger overhauled it for a very reasonable cost.

I don't know if anybody has hammered a Redhawk as hard as Larry did.

Theoretically the coil spring single action of the Blackhawk should be sturdier, but the Redhawk has a larger barrel shank which will let it handle heavier .45 loads. They have only recently offered the Super Blackhawk in .454 Casull.

 

[justin22885]

so what exactly is the "ruger load" pressure limits for the colt?.. one really unreliable source (seen someone mention it on a forum) but the claim was about 32,000 PSI?.. if thats true, then that is PLENTY of power.. about 1000ft/lbs worth... im just looking for a leg-up on anything youre going to safely get in an automatic to compensate for the low capacity

and i may be moving to more bear and moose populated areas, so having more power for a go-to weapon should i run into a problem with either of these will be nice

 

[The Alaskan]

Just looking at your last few posts without re quoting them here...

I don't know what the CUP on their hot handloaded 45LC is, and to be honest, if I did, I don't think I would post them on the web. If that is something you are interested in, I recommend you study several good relaoding manuals and work up your own load very carefully, starting low and slowly increasing.

If durability and reliability are your priority, as it is with me, as it should be with all shooters, then Ruger is your definite go to gun and then you just have to decide which one, but any of the full size Ruger revolvers are going to out live you.

If you think you want a revolver to fend off bears, you need to be looking at 44 magnum as opposed 357. A 357 in a rifle might suffice for smaller black bears but that's the reasonable limit. I would only use a 357 on a large bear if it was all I had. (And for a few years, I carried a 357 rifle because it was all I had.0

SO...if you're going to go 44, you should be looking at any of the "Hawk" guns in either SA or DA. The Super Redhawk is probably the strongest of them all. For bears, you need to be shooting the hard cast WFN type bullets, regardless of caliber. Penetration is the name of the game. PD rounds and JHP type ammo dumps all its energy quickly and never penetrates enough to actually hit any vital organs. For commercial stuff, look at the HSM bear loads in 180 grn for 357 and 305 grn in 44 magnum.

One final remark, the Ruger Redhawk and Super Redhawk are perennial favorites up here and for a good reason. They get the job done, last forever with zero maintenance other than cleaning, are dependable to the bitter end, and don't cost an arm and a leg. (So I don't cry if I drop it in the creek.)

 

[Teachu2]

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstor...038 - Model 688 Plus with full moon clips.pdf

Factory cut with moon clips. Should be a piece of cake to make rimless-ready moon clips.

BTW, I own one of these. Best balanced revolver I've ever shot - and I've shot quite a few. That's why it's the only full size revolver in my current collection.

 

[justin22885]

Just looking at your last few posts without re quoting them here...

I don't know what the CUP on their hot handloaded 45LC is, and to be honest, if I did, I don't think I would post them on the web. If that is something you are interested in, I recommend you study several good relaoding manuals and work up your own load very carefully, starting low and slowly increasing.

If durability and reliability are your priority, as it is with me, as it should be with all shooters, then Ruger is your definite go to gun and then you just have to decide which one, but any of the full size Ruger revolvers are going to out live you.

If you think you want a revolver to fend off bears, you need to be looking at 44 magnum as opposed 357. A 357 in a rifle might suffice for smaller black bears but that's the reasonable limit. I would only use a 357 on a large bear if it was all I had. (And for a few years, I carried a 357 rifle because it was all I had.0

SO...if you're going to go 44, you should be looking at any of the "Hawk" guns in either SA or DA. The Super Redhawk is probably the strongest of them all. For bears, you need to be shooting the hard cast WFN type bullets, regardless of caliber. Penetration is the name of the game. PD rounds and JHP type ammo dumps all its energy quickly and never penetrates enough to actually hit any vital organs. For commercial stuff, look at the HSM bear loads in 180 grn for 357 and 305 grn in 44 magnum.

One final remark, the Ruger Redhawk and Super Redhawk are perennial favorites up here and for a good reason. They get the job done, last forever with zero maintenance other than cleaning, are dependable to the bitter end, and don't cost an arm and a leg. (So I don't cry if I drop it in the creek.)

i think im leaning 45 colt though over the 44 mag, especially if it can be loaded as hot and i can use moon clips to feed handloads made from recycled .308 brass, the 45 colt model seems to be the more versatile choice for me... rhw casull too maybe, but it seems like its only a small step down between the 454 casull and hot 45 colts

 

[justin22885]

im going to check out some disassembly videos later.. see the internals and which ones look simplest, i already seen one for the redhawk and noticed it has a number of small bits and a couple springloaded detents.. features i dont like because its too easy to look small parts that could render the gun useless

 

[Jim Watson]

Hodgdon's "Ruger loads" in .45 Colt top out at 30,000 CUP.

 

[justin22885]

so then.. no reaming a 45acp cylinder out to 45 win mag

inside the 45 colt cylinder.. is there still a ring in front of the case mouth i can use to headspace rimless variants of the cartridge?

from what ive gathered, the max pressure in psi for the blackhawk is 32,000 PSI.. its able to achieve .454 casull pressures in the redhawk.. i noticed one of the "dealer exclusives" super blackhawks is chambered in .454.. what exactly is the difference between the regular, and super blackhawks?.. in my research it seems like the difference is merely a difference in a couple extra components to make heavier recoil more comfortable.. that said, it seems like whether you go blackhawk or redhawk, recoil is going to become very uncomfortable well before you reach the pressure limits