considering a full size revolver

[justin22885]

i also looked at the police positive a bit more.. because theyre really small and lightweight.. dimensionally speaking theyre not much different in size, weight, or capacity of a .380 pistol, but the 38 special loaded up to pressure with a good modern powder will easily surpass the 380 acp.. while looking for something simple, brutally reliable, and accurate for everyday carry i may have to consider compact .380s as a viable option

still though, this has no bearing on the full size revolver, which i have narrowed down to the new service revolver.. which if it can handle standard pressure .45acp, it should be able to handle 45 colt loaded up to those same pressures... as well as the redhawk and blackhawk revolvers for something more modern with more power

 

[susieqz]

you might be surprised at how fail safe the colt peacemaker is.
it will shoot every time.
semi autos are prone to failure. their only saving grace is lots of rounds for those who don't wanna practice.
if you can hit what you aim at, 5 shots is plenty.

 

[The Alaskan]

you might be surprised at how fail safe the colt peacemaker is.
it will shoot every time.
semi autos are prone to failure. their only saving grace is lots of rounds for those who don't wanna practice.
if you can hit what you aim at, 5 shots is plenty.

here here!

But I wouldn't load up a PPS with hot loads.

 

[justin22885]

well, im still stuck considering the three ive narrowed it down to, the colt new service, ruger blackhawk, ruger redhawk.. however, since non of these are available in an 8 shot 357, i'll be going with 45 colt for either of them

even though the new service is old, out of production, and the pull to release the cylinder thing kind of irks me, i still like them, i guess im attracted to old military stuff and the new service (because of the M1917) certainly has that old military appeal to it and quite frankly i find them to be gorgeous revolvers

i have a single action colt clone already.. not much power in them, but i dont see them as durable, reliable or as long lived as say the blackhawk.. i mean, it didnt take me more than a couple weaks before i busted the bolt spring and made the whole damn thing inoperable while waiting for a replacement spring.. im not sure if either of the three revolvers im considering are going to be less likely to have an event like that, but its turned me off of direct SAA clones

 

[justin22885]

here here!

But I wouldn't load up a PPS with hot loads.

PPS?.. if youre referring to my mention of the police positive special, the energy potential i spoke of was with standard pressure 38 supers, not +P.. staying within the limitations of the standard pressures, a good handload can get within the range of 9x19mm of similar barrel lengths which is certainly a step above .380 in a similarly sized blowback pistol

 

[susieqz]

clones are clones.
not colts.

 

[justin22885]

clones are clones.
not colts.

clones are reasonably priced, not double priced for a brand name, not colts.. besides, standard pressured 45 colt rounds are roughly on par with 45acp, if im going to be restricted to only 6 rounds in a cylinder, i want more energy than im going to get out of an automatic

im willing to consider the colt new service as it can be emptied and reloaded much quicker than an SAA with a double action trigger for more rapid followup shots.. but for 6 rounds, slower rate of fire, i want something thatll hit harder, so no SAA, no SAA clones, the blackhawk is different though and one im willing to consider

 

[justin22885]

ok.. so, make your best efforts to try to convince me on one of the three revolvers listed (colt new service, ruger redhawk, ruger blackhawk).. one in your opinion makes one a more solid, more reliable, better all around go-to revolver than the other two?.. i think i got an idea of which way i want to go, but id like to hear final arguments first

 

[IWAC]

as im sort of losing faith in automatics (primarily recoil operated automatics) as a go-to all purpose pistol id bet my life on, it has me considering giving those roles to straight blowbacks (9x18 caliber CZ-82 for CCW) and revolvers (for full-size open carry)

besides a charter arms bulldog in .44 special i do not have any other revolvers.. not even sure which caliber im interested in, heck, not even certain if i would discount single actions for that matter for their added simplicity

so at this point im pretty open to options, though id prefer a rimless cartridge i can make from more commonly available brass i may already have on hand (like making rimless .357 mag out of .223 brass, or rimless .45 colt / 454 casull from 308 brass).. and i dont even care at this point if its single action or double
any ideas?

First of all, exactly why is it you are losing confidence in Semi-auto pistols? Manufacturers have spent MILLIONS of dollars developing semi autos that approach the reliability,effectiveness and simplicity of revolvers, and have succeeded to a great extent! And, what might be wrong with your Bulldog! Good gun, good caliber.
First of all, you need to make up your mind what you really want/need/can use!. A new gun is always a good thing!
If you can find one that has revolvers, a gun range with rental weapons where you can use and compare different guns will give you hands-on experience. Most ranges don't have many revolvers, only the latest whiz-bang semiautos, tho. Semi-autos are cheaper than revolvers....$4-500 against $7-900.

I presume you reload, or you would not be theorizing about"making" brass. But...if you enjoy that sort of thing...wellll...O.K.:banghead: Better to buy, IMO.

The age-old controversy about foot pounds this, and "effectiveness" that, is fine for ballistic proctologists, but reality is that accurate placement of a properly-designed bullet trumps all. "Only a .380? Stand there and let me shoot you a little bit!

A revolver the size of the S&W 686 can be concealed readily, although not as easily as a semi-auto.

The pure-D fact is; It is possible to learn to shoot the .44 Magnum or .357 Magnum "Blue Whistler" loads well, but few do, because of the noise and recoil. That's why A LOT of people shoot only .44 Special-level ammo in their revolvers, and the long-departed Remington .357 "Medium Magnum" 125gr load at ~1200 fps was so popular. The current 125 gr Golden Saber 357 Magnum load is rated at ~1200 fps. .38 Special +P loads have proven quite as effective as the older high-intensity loads. Why? You shoot best with what kicks you least, and shot placement is the key.

The old adage about the fellow who only has one gun is true. Learn to use whatever you have, and carry it however you wish. When you learn it well, it will save the slight confusion of adapting to different systems, which can be a disadvantage under pressure.

 

[JC111]

I own a Colt Model 1917 Army and it's a great revolver, but it's part of my collection. Colt stopped making revolvers many years ago and it stopped making the New Service in the 1940's. Parts are expensive and there are not many gunsmiths who know how to work on the old Colt DA's anymore. If you're going to carry a revolver for CCW I suggest you go with a new S&W J frame or a Ruger SP 101.

 

[justin22885]

well ive narroed it down to 3 so smith and wesson of any frame is off the radar.. i may add a chiappa rhino to the list for its... different.. factor

 

[justin22885]

the direction im beginning to lean is for the blachhawk, a bit simpler and seemingly more solidly built on the inside, more customization options (though i wish i could find a thunderer style grip for one), but with the more energetic cartridges like 44 mag, hot 45 colt you're typically not going to gain anything in fire rate over a double action simply because the time it takes to recover from the muzzle flip, you can easily re-cock that hammer with the weak hand thumb

one more advantages to the blackhawk is it really allows you to work on the trigger without having to worry about weakening the DA pull to the point of resulting in light primer strikes.. id suffer on reload speeds, but thats about it.. its not my everyday carry pistol so its not really important

 

[Crawfish1]

Anything less than a Ruger Alaskan chambered for .454 Casull is .... well, less.
Seriously though two fun revolvers I have are chambered for 460 /454/45 and 454/45. I enjoy shooting both with trail boss light loads and 240 Grain RNFP.

But .357/38 choices will be much less to reload for. Probably save $50.00 a thousand going .357 if you plan to shoot a lot.

BTW no rattle snake I have ever shot "only one" has lived through the Buffalo Bore .454 rounds.

Full disclaimer: Thought I had two rounds of .45 snake shot only to find out there was only one and full house .454 out of a two inch barrel is awfully loud without hearing protection.

Scared both me and the rattle snake.

 

[Jim Watson]

(though i wish i could find a thunderer style grip for one),

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/82...ingle-six-vaquero-large-frame-stainless-steel

Gotta worry about you, Justin. That was the third hit on Google.

Most Internet and Gunzine Experts agree that the Ruger Bisley grip is best for heavy recoil.

 

[Malamute]

I think youre way overthinking all of this, especially the brass issue, and very especially seriously considering an OLD Colt DA and being dismissive of other guns because of perceived reliability issues.

I'd suggest getting some more hands on, real life experience with more guns.

What exactly is the perceived issue with self loaders? I may have missed it if you mentioned it. An awful lot of people with extensive real life experience with them and other guns seem to think they are OK.

 

[justin22885]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/82...ingle-six-vaquero-large-frame-stainless-steel

Gotta worry about you, Justin. That was the third hit on Google.

Most Internet and Gunzine Experts agree that the Ruger Bisley grip is best for heavy recoil.

except thats a birdshead grip, not a thunderer.. but i guess it doesnt matter, doubt either one would be a good idea for magnum size calibers on a full size pistol.. i may have to give the bisley grip a try, ive only ever used standard SAA style grips on single actions before, never a bisley.. might be worth checking out of i go the route of the blackhawk which im leaning towards

i think i can eliminate the colt new service revolver at this point, i may get an M1917 later just to add to the collection, but for now, redhawk or blackhawk, double action or single, swing out cylinder or fixed

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't know about Rugers, but the Ubertis faked up to look like Thunderers or birdsheads are very small, suitable for a Cowgirl firing light loads
I'd rather the regular plow handle.

What Ruger calls a Bisley is more like a Keith No 5 but bigger.

 

[justin22885]

I don't know about Rugers, but the Ubertis faked up to look like Thunderers or birdsheads are very small, suitable for a Cowgirl firing light loads
I'd rather the regular plow handle.

What Ruger calls a Bisley is more like a Keith No 5 but bigger.

i have a regular SAA grip that i find seems to point more naturally than anything else.. problem is the pinky finger rolls up underneath the grip.. is essentially a two-finger grip a good idea for what could likely end up kicking more than a 44 mag?

 

[justin22885]

i guess another advantage to the redhawk is that with moon clips (which the blackhawk cant really use), you can load all sorts of rimless cartridges too.. 45 colt, 45 super, 460 rowland, 45 gap, 45 win mag... as well as rimmed cartridges like 45 colt, 45 schoffield, 455 webley..

downside to the swing out cylinder though is the star extractor.. i rarely see revolvers fail, but when i do its because a piece of lint, or chunk of unburn powder, or something else gets under the extractor and the cylinder wont lock with it protruding.. or if you have a stuck case (seems to be especially possible with the very small rim of the 45 colt) you can get the extractor to miss the rim and get a cartridge stuck underneath it.. which will put you out of commission

so... do you take the flexibility and versatility of the swing out cylinder that can take moon clips and fire many more cartridges, while reloading faster but with the increased chances of a malfunction due to the ejection system, or do you go for the brutal reliability and at least the ability to fire similar rimmed cartridges with a more reliable means of ejection and go with the blackhawk?

 

[CraigC]

I don't understand this fascination with cutting down .308 brass. You'll have to explain that to me. Any of these cartridges has readily available, high quality brass on the market that will withstand a great many firings without issue. I've got a batch of .44Mag brass that I've been reloading for 10yrs and have only split a small handful. Also, a rim allows a firm roll crimp and with all this discussion of powerful, heavy recoiling loads, a taper crimp in a rimless case is going to present problems. So it seems to me to be a wiser investment to buy 500-1000rds of Starline brass lieu of cutting down .308 cases.

i noticed one of the "dealer exclusives" super blackhawks is chambered in .454.. what exactly is the difference between the regular, and super blackhawks?.. in my research it seems like the difference is merely a difference in a couple extra components to make heavier recoil more comfortable.. that said, it seems like whether you go blackhawk or redhawk, recoil is going to become very uncomfortable well before you reach the pressure limits

They're five-shot as opposed to six and the cylinder is constructed of a tougher alloy, Carpenter Custom 465 stainless. The barrel is also a stronger steel. The frame is the same as the rest of the lineup.

... but it seems like its only a small step down between the 454 casull and hot 45 colts

Double the pressure is a "small step"???

What Ruger calls a Bisley is more like a Keith No 5 but bigger.

I think the Ruger Bisley, Colt Bisley and #5 grip frames are all too distinct to make any direct comparisons. I will say that the Ruger Bisley is the most comfortable and controllable under heavy recoil that I've ever used.

.. problem is the pinky finger rolls up underneath the grip.. is essentially a two-finger grip a good idea for what could likely end up kicking more than a 44 mag?

The pinky still serves a purpose so it's not really a two finger grip. You have much more control with the pinky tucked under than you would without it at all.

you can get the extractor to miss the rim and get a cartridge stuck underneath it..

Not really an issue with the Redhawk.

 

[justin22885]

why isnt cartridges getting stuck under an extractor an issue on the redhawk? is there something special about its extractor?.. though i cant imagine it actually being a problem anyway since i'll likely load up with moon clips anyway for faster reloading if i go with the redhawk

to explain the .308 brass, its not going to be my primary source of brass, but i will be stockpiling a lot of .308 brass to make a couple thousand rounds of inexpensive, yet capable .308 ammo, anywhere i can use the brass though will allow me to save more, so the .308 chopped 45 colt brass will be used just to build a stock of usable ammo for cheap ($0.09/each for .308 brass vs $0.24/each for 45 colt) so if making 1,000 rounds of the stuff i'll save enough money to buy the powder too.. so its just for an extra option for a source of ammo, and a means to save money stockpiling it

as for the standard grip vs the bisley, i like standard grip feel, i like the pointability, so first i will probably fine tune my own hand load to get the performance where i want it, and if the recoil gets to be a bit much, then i'll try out the bisley grip IF i go for the blackhawk

as of right now, i use aliant power pistol for all handgun cartridges i load, im hoping this will work well for the 45 colt too because its a really good, very versatile powder, i dont want to have to look for another

 

[RealGun]

ok.. so, make your best efforts to try to convince me on one of the three revolvers listed (colt new service, ruger redhawk, ruger blackhawk).. one in your opinion makes one a more solid, more reliable, better all around go-to revolver than the other two?.. i think i got an idea of which way i want to go, but id like to hear final arguments first

I think the effort is better spent convincing you to just buy the right brass.

BTW barrel length choices are few in 45 Colt unless finding the older 5.5" Redhawk. Also note that two of my SAA clones are 44 Magnum. I think I would caution against losing a cylinder pin under recoil. The 45 convertible, suggested to you earlier, is one I have in the 6 1/2" NMBH. That gun will handle the full range of 45 Colt. The extra cylinder is 45 ACP, headspacing on the case mouth like a semi-auto.

Reading through all this, I was thinking that a Ruger Alaskan 454 that could shoot 45 Colt would be a good candidate for you.

 

[CraigC]

The Redhawk extractor encloses more of the cartridge case than a S&W.

1000rds of .44Mag Starline brass is $200, or 20 cents apiece. Figuring on at least 20 firings from each case, that's 1 cent per round fired. Do you know how much work you're going to go through to save a penny per round fired? How much do you value your time?

How long do you figure to fire 20,000rds of .44Mag?

 

[Jim Watson]

A Ruger Convertible has cylinders for .45 Colt and .45 ACP.
You could scrounge an extra .45 ACP cylinder and have it rechambered for .45 Win Mag or .460 Rowland or .451 D-Mag or .45 Super or Something Else. You would have to keep them straight, because an ACP wouldn't headspace in the Win Mag cylinder. Can't put a moon clip in a single action (unless you have H Bowen convert it to the Sedgley drop out cylinder) and there is not enough room for the E-clip kludge mentioned earlier.

If you got real lucky you might could find a Phillips & Rogers cylinder with their trick design to shoot different length cartridges in the same gun. They made a few for S&Ws before coming out with their own Medusa gun, fewer for Ruger .357s, and very few for Ruger .45s.

 

[sonofagun]

Looking for info from those who own a Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Spl. My father-in-law just gave my wife his Bulldog. It has a 3 in barrel and the push rod for empty casings is exposed not enclosed. Also it has a (not sure what to call it) concealed hammer? It is a double action but she can't pull back the partially hidden hammer. Anyone know where I could find information on this pistol? Thanks.