Constructing indoor shooting range: question

[1KPerDay]

Hi,
A rich guy I know is constructing a single-lane indoor shooting lane, 50 yds long with a professional backstop/sand trap. The alley will be concrete all around, with steel plate on the ceiling (there's a building above but nothing to the sides/below). There is also a concrete step/lip in front of the shooter's legs.

His question: the people designing/building it are recommending that he put steel louvers along the sides of the lane to trap/deflect any ricochets. This will add about 30 or 40 grand to the cost. My thoughts are, with an angled, properly hardened steel professional backstop/trap, the chances of anything coming back with any damaging force are remote. The possibility is always there, of course, but IMO it would be like the odds of winning the lottery. And even with the steel louvers, if something comes STRAIGHT back, the louvers aren't going to do anything to prevent it anyway.

What say the experts here?

 

[BullfrogKen]

Sandtraps are pretty old technology.

Who designed the plan and spec'd a sand trap?

 

[1KPerDay]

No idea. It was either sand or water and of the two he wanted sand.

it's a hardened steel angled backstop that drops/reflects rounds into sand... it's not just a big hill of sand, in case I was unclear.

 

[9mmepiphany]

the people designing/building it are recommending that he put steel louvers along the sides of the lane to trap/deflect any ricochets

I'm not weighing in on the advisability of the issue, as I'm not paying for the construction. While I have looked into this from an intellectual/engineering level, I would usually defer to a professional designer/builder.

However, I will say that the single lane design of this proposed shooting setup increases the danger of ricochets above that of a more open setup

 

[1KPerDay]

Yes, that he had considered. However, his point was that in more open setups, there's no louvers along the far left or far right walls, right next to the rightmost or leftmost lanes.

But I agree that the one-lane setup would tend to funnel anything back more readily than an open room. However I personally feel the chances are very slim.

I'd of course want it to be safe. But is that extra 2% of safety worth another 40 large? That's the question I suppose.

Thanks for your input; keep it coming.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I understand the sand trap system well, and my input would be not to use a sand trap.

Spec something else.

 

[earplug]

Wood baffles

I'm guessing the designer is worried about bullets bouncing back and traveling along the wall. Objects tend to travel along a wall after they hit it at a shallow angle.
A simple wood baffle would stop a spent bullet or jacket.

 

[1KPerDay]

I understand the sand trap system well, and my input would be not to use a sand trap.

Spec something else.

what would you recommend? You obviously know more than I do.

 

[rscalzo]

I'd get a copy of the NRA Range Source manual available on line.

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/sourcebook.asp
They also offer range development services.

I was tasked with looking into building a range for our department. along with some long time friends from my former gun club and town organization, we started researching. I was amazed what was required to meet codes for what we thought would be a simple outdoor facility. In the end the idea was dropped but the requirements were beyond what I first thought.

When we looked at a indoor facility, the requirements for filters and air circulation were outside the allotted budget.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Tell your wealthy friend to have a conversation with someone who actually constructs ranges for a living. Action Target comes to mind.


Sand traps majorly suck when it comes time to clean one out.

 

[oneounceload]

Sand traps majorly suck when it comes time to clean one out.

Interesting comment - my friend who put one inn his house's lower level went with the sand trap because a simple sifting cleans it out

The main issue is ventilation, followed by ricochets

 

[9mmepiphany]

The main issue is ventilation, followed by ricochets

Ventilation and the associated climate control (temp and re-cir) always seemed like the big problems. In an urban environment, the other biggie is noise control

 

[brboyer]

I've been in many indoor shooting ranges and have never seen one with baffles on the side walls.

 

[9mmepiphany]

never seen one with baffles on the side walls

I'll refer you to post #4.

I was in a Federal LE range once that did have side baffles and I believe the indoor range at the Sig Academy has them too. The issue of bullet bounce back is compounded by the fact that this is a single lane range...a narrow concrete alley, with multiple deflection angles possible

 

[1KPerDay]

Tell your wealthy friend to have a conversation with someone who actually constructs ranges for a living.

These guys supposedly do.

Again, what would you recommend in place of a sand trap?

 

[brboyer]

I'll refer you to post #4.

I was in a Federal LE range once that did have side baffles and I believe the indoor range at the Sig Academy has them too. The issue of bullet bounce back is compounded by the fact that this is a single lane range...a narrow concrete alley, with multiple deflection angles possible

I interpreted the OP to mean a single wide open range for use by several shooters simultaneously, rather than a range with individual concrete walls separating shooters (a type I've never seen.)

But I've been wrong before.

Like this:

 

[ants]

I'm not getting prefessionally involved with you, but I've been there before.

So I'll share three points.

What would you recommend in place of sand trap?
Snail Trap by Savage Range Systems. Yes, same Savage as the rifle. http://www.snailtraps.com/

Baffles, lanes, and all the other range specialties?
Same Savage Range Systems. Not only all the right equipment, but they have true experts ready to help you.

Range design
NRA guidelines as linked by rscalzo in Post #9 above. Thank you, rscalzo.



I don't mean to be mean, but here it is: If your friend hasn't referenced the NRA design guidelines, and neither he nor his 'expert' don't know about Savage Range Systems, I just don't know what to say. Every design professional I know goes straight to those resources. I just don't know what else to say.

I'm also worried about well-intentioned advice from good people who mean well. Range design and safety are specialties that take TRULY expert participation, not just common sense, intuition, a contractor who claims to have expertise, and things that sound like good ideas.

 

[ants]

By the way, in addition to ventilation, acoustical control is also critical. It's not just a convenience or a courtesy to others in the house. It's not just 'something you do at a commercial range to make it more comfortable for the people there'. It is truly part of the range design programming.

I suspect someone will say, "But it has concrete walls and steel ceiling, that should be good enough". That's exactly why you need to reference the NRA monograph and contact Savage.

 

[hso]

I agree that sand isn't the best available backstop material any more since granulated rubber came along. Also, if the facility hasn't been built yet ask the out of the box question of why a single lane is being constructed instead of a wider range.

http://www.nssf.org/ranges/resource...ign/baffles_berms.htm&CAT=Facility Management

http://www.wbdg.org/design/firing_range.php

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/sourcebook.asp

http://www.deq.state.ok.us/lpdnew/s...ustrial Hygiene guide/tm6290.99-10Rev1[1].pdf

http://www.nssf.org/ranges/PDF/CreatingaSuccessfulShootingRange.pdf

 

[Vector]

Hi,
This will add about 30 or 40 grand to the cost.

If it costs that much just for one feature how much does it cost to build a typical indoor range these days? How can someone make money with all the up front costs and other things like insurance, disposal/cleanup/EPA requirements, etc.?

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks for the info guys. It is indeed only one lane, for personal use. Ventilation/filtration/whatever are ostensibly taken care of. I'll forward this info to him.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I interpreted the OP to mean a single wide open range for use by several shooters simultaneously, rather than a range with individual concrete walls separating shooters (a type I've never seen.)

I didn't mean to sound curt and I'm glad to OP came back to clarify.

I did read it the way he meant...a single firing point for his personal use. My insight of his meaning might be because I have also considered building a buried partially below level one in the back yard and I've also seen ones built in basements

 

[brboyer]

I didn't mean to sound curt and I'm glad to OP came back to clarify.

I did read it the way he meant...a single firing point for his personal use. My insight of his meaning might be because I have also considered building a buried partially below level one in the back yard and I've also seen ones built in basements

No problem...now that is a horse of a different color...yeah a blank concrete square relatively small HxW dimensioned tunnel....I'd have to do something else as well.