Contraceptives for deer, not enough hunters? Or trying to reduce avenues for RKBA?

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Zoogster

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After seeing a comment by Jay Leno a few nights back about shooting deer with contraceptive darts I went and researched it.

It turns out it is far from a joke and is actualy in place many places.

Here is a paragraph I ran across:

"The goal is a one-shot deer contraceptive that would offer those in charge of managing deer populations a realistic alternative to killing.

Deer populations have boomed in the past century, causing communities across the country to find ways to shrink the size of herds. In most cases, officials have used hunters or sharpshooters to cull deer, but animal rights activists and others have called for the development of a deer contraceptive."
Wow.
"It's kind of the Holy Grail of [deer contraception]: to come up with something that you could inject once and have it work for five years or so," said Michael E. Newman, a spokesman for the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

I also read about how the number of women using contraceptives in the United States has been having an effect on some wildlife down stream from sewage.
The contraceptives are passed in the urine and are essentialy putting some animals on birth control unintentionaly.

So I imagine that could be an unintended effect this program could have as well with some contraceptives. Putting animals other than the deer in the environment of the deer on contraceptives. Since the deer urinate, live and die in the environment, many animals would come into contact with both thier urine and thier carcasses.



Some people are so opposed to hunting that they wish to use contraceptives to reduce the number of animals rather than issue more tags or reduce the price of tags so more can afford to hunt.
This is not just firearms, they are opposed to bow hunting as well. It is weapons or killing they are opposed to which of course has an anti gun sentiment attached. I wonder how many of them support slaughterhouses by purchasing meat?


I think this is important to all gun owners as hunting is still an important way of bringing some people into the RKBA fight. This program will reduce that avenue by reducing hunting opportunities.
Hunting also seems to be the purpose anti gunners feel is legitimate as you see some like John Kerry hunting for the camera, and hear many comments about "you don't need _____ or ______ guns to hunt." While that has nothing to do with the 2nd which protects gun rights for use as weapons against people, I mention it because it shows even they acknowledge hunting is acceptable.

This seems like a new and indirect attack on firearm traditions in America, and effects us all, not just hunters.

Here is a few year old article when it was in the trial stages:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13311-2004Aug18.html

Here is one from the viewpoint of hunting opponents:
http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/newshound/2007/08/deer-contracept.html

A notable paragraph:
"DiNicola’s company now charges up to $300 to dart a single deer with a contraceptive cocktail. He estimated that to locate, mark and inoculate free-ranging deer on an annual basis would cost municipalities up to $1,000 per animal."

So rather than create revenue through hunting permits, or even reducing the price of deer tags or bag limits they charge the tax payers to dart deer. A source of revenue turns into a financial burden.

A further concern is these are serious long lasting contraceptives that are not subject to the type of quality control and study of those used by people. Yet it is imaginable that they could be abused for that use.

That vaccine uses a protein from pigs to generate antibodies that render the eggs of the female deer impervious to sperm. One disadvantage is that the vaccine requires annual booster shots.
Turning the immune system against part of the reproductive system sounds like a very bad idea. Some immunities are passed from mother to offspring. The potential for new auto immune diseases stemming from this is pretty big.
I have little doubt some of these drugs will make it to human women. Controlling fertility with hormones like currently done is much safer than turning the playing with the immune system. I wonder what the long term effects could be.
 
Very creepy. Maybe I should be more wary about my venison.

You'd think the price of the contraceptives would outweigh giving hunters a crisp 20 for every doe they kill.

I was really counting on deer as a main dietary staple post SHTF. Seems like I'm going to have to become a cannibal more and more every day.
 
[MEDIUM LEVEL RANT]

There's no question that "they" have been using every avenue to limit RKBA, including hunting. They are trying to counter the overpopulation effect since farmers, ranchers, and pelt-hunters have removed all the predators except man. You will also note that re-introduction of the wolves programs will also reduce the game populations in the name of "re-establishing the balance."

I suspect that even some members of the various State Wildlife agencies are "in" on it, consciously or not ...but that supposition is going to be met by vociferous denials --"it's for the animals." I, for the life of me, cannot understand why, here in Colorado, you buy your license, and then you have to call in and identify yourself further, to "validate" the license. They say it enhances game management, but I say it de-enhances the opportunities to hunt. Frankly, between things like that and the Hunter Safety Class requirement, the net effect is to supress the desire to hunt... it's become such a pain in the tuchas that no wonder the number of hunters is going down.

When I first hunted deer in Colorado, the brochure was two legal sized pages folded over, which included a map of areas, season opening and closings, and some common-sense cautions about safety and a few of the pertinent regulations.

Nowadays you have to be a lawyer to decipher the brochure and I haven't looked at one in the last couple of years, but I would not be surprised if it were the size of a phone book. (That's an exageration for the sake of humor, but there's a germ of truth there.)

And you have so many closed areas, now.... monuments, parks, primitive areas, and my perception is that many of these closed areas were introduced for the simple reason of limiting hunting.

And then there's the endangered species ploy. "They" were appalled at the number of prairie dogs shot, so, again, in my perception, they attempted to get the prairie rat on the endangered species list. I think they are off the endangered species candidate list now, but in the interim, most prairie dog hunters were pretty frustrated. Me, too.

Well, I decided a couple of years ago to face the fact that the "antis," with their burning dedication and passion, are much smarter than we are about strategies, tactics, ploys, and counter ploys.

Like reducing game populations with contraceptives instead of by hunting.

[/MEDIUM LEVEL RANT]
 
Maybe this will get the hunters to join in the RKBA fight. I know plenty of people that wouldn't lift a finger to help if it's pistols being banned, but would get all up in arms over not being able to go hunting each year.
 
First they pump fluoride into our water without our consent and now they shoot our food source up with something that, it seems to me and my reproductive system, I surely do not want to eat.
 
This isn't really a large scale thing for the most part, though some animal rights people would like it to be. It's too expensive, requires too much manpower, and isn't worth it in most cases. I feel like some of you guys are trying to attribute everything to the antis, which isn't always the case.

I go to one of the best schools in the country for environmental science, and we ARE here for the animals, and the people as well. Reintroducing wolves isn't some scam to take your guns away. Deer contraceptives have their place, near me they're used on Fire Island where the deer population is out of control but the area is too densely populated to allow hunting. That's generally the situation that they're used for, when deer become a nuisance in residential areas.

I think you'll all be glad to know that at least at my school, we are taught that hunters are the driving force behind the conservation movement. We read the works of all the great naturalists most of whom portray hunting in the best light possible. We are taught to manage for sustainable harvesting and rely on hunters in our management plans. I believe the block where my fellow students and I live has the highest concentration of guns in the whole city. Most of the guys I know spend a good deal of their time hunting, and between them and my professors I've been persuaded to try it myself.

It's important to differentiate between professional (and I don't just mean that in the sense that it's their job) scientists and "environmentalists". I can't stand most of that hippy nonsense myself, but I do understand that there are legitimate threats facing the environment that need to be solved.
 
That vaccine uses a protein from pigs to generate antibodies that render the eggs of the female deer impervious to sperm.
Do they kill the pigs before harvesting their protein?
 
<raises hand>
Do these here darts come in common calibers?
I am not suggesting or implying anything you understand, just, well since habitat can only support so much before disease spreads and weakens greater populations...

Are these darts OTC in the drug store, near the condoms, or have they put them in them machines in bathrooms and it take three quarters...
Anyone have a quarter for two dimes and a nickel?

Tyranny-X, to enhance pleasure for both men and women and to decrease the likelihood spreading tyranny-itis, and other freedom erosion societal diseases
 
sm:

Do these here darts come in common calibers?
I am not suggesting or implying anything you understand, just, well, since habitat can only support so much before disease spreads and weakens greater populations...

Are these darts OTC in the drug store, near the condoms, or have they put them in them machines in bathrooms and it take three quarters... Anyone have a quarter for two dimes and a nickel?

Say, you lookin' fer a non-lethal way to supplement the Darwinian culling process? You, know, like instead of the Darwin Awards, we give out sm Awards, administered by commonly available dart projectors like I have on my belt most days?

But then again, you said you weren't implying anything... sorry if I took it "wrong." :)
 
"First they pump fluoride into our water without our consent..."

Not true, I have seen plenty of localities remove the fluoride because citizens wanted to get rid of it. Of course, the flip side of that one is that dentists do better business. Me, I'm happy to be 35 with no cavities.

Ash
 
but animal rights activists and others have called for the development of a deer contraceptive."
Animal rights activists never have any degrees or background in biology or any other sciene for that matter. If they did, they would know that contraceptives will not be effective in controlling populations and that certain animals are food for other animals. Somewhere along the way they must have slept through class when their gradeschool science teacher was talking about food chains. Then again I wouldn't expect a trust fund urban environmentalist to have any clue as to where their food comes from other than a grocery store.
 
"First they pump fluoride into our water without our consent..."

Not true, I have seen plenty of localities remove the fluoride because citizens wanted to get rid of it. Of course, the flip side of that one is that dentists do better business. Me, I'm happy to be 35 with no cavities.

Ditto that. The whole wild-eyed-fluoride-in-the-water-government-conspiracy-mind-control-rays sentiment is exactly what it is. At least these people haven't figured out about the big conspiracy with the table salt makers poisoning the consumers with iodine yet (iodine is in the same chemical group as Fluoride on the periodic chart).

I'll take my cavity-free and goiter-free lifestyle over the alternative.
 
Not true, I have seen plenty of localities remove the fluoride because citizens wanted to get rid of it. Of course, the flip side of that one is that dentists do better business. Me, I'm happy to be 35 with no cavities.

Just brush and floss at least once daily.

Far be it from me to encourage you to research 'dental fluorosis'. Nor where many municipalities get their sources of fluorine.
 
I know this is a thread drift but..

Far be it from me to encourage you to research 'dental fluorosis'. Nor where many municipalities get their sources of fluorine.

Almost all of fluoride overdose damage to teeth is caused by kids swallowing fluoride toothpaste. I'd love to see proof that drinking water causes it.
 
Far be it from me to encourage you to research 'dental fluorosis'. Nor where many municipalities get their sources of fluorine.
Anyone care to guess what the by product of termite fumigation is
 
Around here I would have no problem with anyone giving birth control to the deer. There is a 4 mile stretch near my parents house that seems to average 3 hit deer a week. That's a wasted deer, a wrecked car, possibly a wrecked person, and a city employee driving out to pick up the dead deer 3 times a week. They are a nuisance species around here, and since there is food nearly all winter long it doesn't show any sign of slowing down.

There is a pipeline/protected wooded area that runs right through the middle of the subdivision where they live. I suspect some folks in the neighborhood are bow hunting from tree stands (I've seen stands but never heard a shot), which is certainly against the HOA policy but if they are getting rid of deer I'm all for it.
 
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This could kill off top predators in one or two generations. Predators eat many deer, and therefore would accumulate very high concentrations of contraceptives through biomagnification (same process that leads to high levels of DDT in predatory birds, when environmental levels of DDT were quite low). Ironically, that could mean even more deer.

Note also that humans are top predators. Someone who eats a lot of venison might become sterile.

How about longer hunting seasons, cheaper tags?

As far as animal rights idiots are concerned, these people are pretty bad at math. Every deer hunted means less commercial meat eaten. Most commercial meat is raised in environments that should raise "animal-rights" ire a lot more than harvesting true "free range" deer. I find it FAR more palatable to shoot an animal for food than to even give too much thought to where my commercial meat comes from. I eat commercial meat, too, but I don't like to think too much about it.
 
Seems like I'm going to have to become a cannibal more and more every day.

Well all the treehuggers are eating granola and tofu so it should make for some nicely marbled flank steak I'd think.

I mean, we are paying extra for grain fed beef.....
 
I suspect some folks in the neighborhood are bow hunting from tree stands (I've seen stands but never heard a shot), which is certainly against the HOA policy but if I'm all for it.

Problem is all levels of government down to HOAs are full of do-gooder idiots looking for another service to provide for their subjects. If anyone with a shred of intelligence were at the helm, they would be selling permits to bowhunters to hunt prime deer areas instead of taxing the people to pay high fees to 'sharpshooters*' to either kill or sterilize deer.

*'sharpshooter' is a politically correct term to describe one of the local game warden's drinking buddy who will be given the proper permits and reccomendations by said warden.
 
I dunno... it seems like straightup gunshot would be far cheaper and simpler, as well as much more effective at avoiding unintended consequences than this complicated and very expensive dart. I mean, you shoot a deer and kill it, and it's not going to bear any more offspring. Why complicate things?
 
I remember hearing about this more than once. In fact a few years back I was erading the local newspaper (star and tribune, aka star and sickle) and page one had an article about a rutgers report stating that with current technology the concept was flawed, there was no way to make sure you got all the deer medicated, and no way to tell which deer were already medicated, so there was a big risk of a doe getting a double or triple dosage.

Anyways, a bit further on there was an article about how teen pregnancy as a whole was dropping, in low income urban female subpopulation, it was increasing.

I pointed these articles out to a buddy and said "they should combine these two articles. Get some of those birth control darts, get one of those vietnam era hueys with a M-60 door gunner, and go buzz some of the urban middleschool" and I started making machinegun sounds. My buddies were all laughing and adding "hell, people would probably pay to do that, that might end up being an actual revenue generator!"

This one PC moron a table away turned to us and said "That's the dumbest idea I ever heard, someone could get hurt!" We all paused for a second and then busted a gut laughing at him
 
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