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Who claims the deer?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by wombat13, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. TikkaShooter

    TikkaShooter Member

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    I've always heard that and didn't know if it was true or not.

    Some sites say no; however this one said yes.
    https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-scared-animals-taste-worse
     
  2. Bandit67

    Bandit67 Member

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    Of course we all try for a one shot kill but if you've never had to shoot twice you're a lucky man. The biggest factor regarding taste for me is where the deer came from. The deer I shoot in southern MI that have been eating corn and beans all summer taste better than deer from Northern MI that live in the forest with no agriculture around
     
  3. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    I do get what you mean. Just for the sake of discussion, I don't recognize a "killing shot". ;)

    Either the shot was an incapacitating fatal wound, which I define as the deer is down when hit, or collapses at 50 yards or less, OR it's not such a hit. If it's not, the shot that does put the deer down is the one that has the valid claim.

    The other problem is the second hunter in most cases doesn't have the good fortune that your FIL had, and doesn't see the first hunter trying to track the deer. The second hunter sees a deer moving through the second hunter's area. IF it's sprinting, hunter-two likely isn't going to crack-off a round. IF the deer is moving at a slow pace, it's likely looking for a place to lie down and hide, and so..., hunter-two likely isn't going to see the deer is hit and will take a shot. Normally hunter-two doesn't realize the deer has been shot until hunter-two walks up to the animal and sees the second wound...maybe hunter-two remember hearing a previous shot from another hunter. Hunter-one often arrives shortly thereafter IF hunter-one is trying to track the deer he shot....

    ...which brings us to what is hunter-two to do if he finds "his" deer has been shot prior to his harvesting the animal, and the other deer hunter never arrives? o_O There are guys out there who give a half-arsed look around for blood, and seeing none say, "I missed", and go back to their stand or go home.

    It used to be you had to have permission to collect your game on private property in my state. IF the landowner on the property where your deer went says you can't enter, it was then the landowner's deer. The law was changed a few years back, and the hunter may collect the deer without the landowner's permission, but is not supposed to carry a weapon onto the land. Normally the hunter when faced with a negative landowner simply calls the Game Warden and accompanies the Game Warden in collection of the deer. IF the deer is "gone", by the time they get to the deer, oh well...

    Which is the other consideration.;) A deer that has been hit and doesn't go down, or moves more than a short distance, lays down and doesn't pass, is likely to be full of adrenalin when hunter-two takes that shot, and harvests that deer. So good that hunter-two put the animal out of pain, but bad as the venison is going to be some of the toughest, oddest tasting stuff that hunter-two has had. :barf: Even if you follow standard procedures and hang the animal until rigor subsides..., that adrenalin over all that time between first and second shot, with the pursuit in between, you don't want that meat.

    OH and I was taught that if it was me who was hunter-one, then it's hunter-two's deer, and I should offer to split the cost of butchering for a half of the deer (assuming hunter-two uses a deer cutter) , and not to be angry if hunter-two declines.

    LD
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019 at 8:36 AM
  4. stillquietvoice

    stillquietvoice Member

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    I've o KY had a few move after the first shot. 2 were with 12ga shotgun and Forester slugs, one with m1 garand running double lung and one I knocked out stone cold. My only case of buck fever. Hit the base of his antler, found the 30 cal hole after drinking to save the skull for a mount.

    I've never really noticed a difference in taste due to adrenalin. Swollen from hormones yes.
     
  5. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    I think the "gamey" taste sometimes attributed to a wounded/stressed animal is dependent on the wound and how much time has elapsed. Take a deer who's front leg has been broken and put it down within an hour or two and I doubt if there will be much difference in the taste of the meat. Let that buck lay overnight and jump him the next day after he's had time to get fevered up and the meat will be sour/tainted. Gut shot and poorly shot deer leak fluids into the body cavity that when left for a while before the deer expires(such as how one delays trailing a gut shot deer) those fluids being in contact with the body cavity can also taint the meat. With the stomach/intestines/bladder ruptured due to the gunshot, during field dressing or even improper field dressing, those fluid can get on more exposed meat and taint it. Sometimes that old smelly buck and been peeing on it's hind legs for a week and then we as hunters grab that buck by those same back legs to field dress it. Then we proceed to field dress it with those same hands. Being a bow hunter, I, like many others have let a deer go overnight because of conditions or because I was unsure of the hit. Even in the coldest of weather, the innards keep working on a dead deer and will keep the body cavity warm. Blood and other body fluids in the cavity can actually ferment in the cavity of a dead deer and produce heat along with a sour mixture of blood, That sitting in the body cavity can taint/sour the meat. As for adrenaline and hormones, they too could change the flavor of the meat, but I'd guess to a lesser degree. Proper field dressing, ambient temperatures and proper processing and care once the deer is out of the field, probably much more. One reason I process my own is so that any type of contamination from the shot or any of those other things mentioned can be removed before they can contaminate all of the meat. Most processors don't do that and it gets mixed in the whole batch of hamburger.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019 at 11:56 AM
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  6. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Tricky situation with a chance of violence. Two hunters with adrenaline flowing and guns in their hands. Rules and politeness can disappear in an instance. Hopefully cool heads on both sides to come to a reasonable outcome. Offer to share some meat might be helpful.
     
  7. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    Interesting anecdote and one that may be valid to my situation as this is my practice as well.
     
  8. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    Indiana.

    I'd be beyond surprised if ANY STATE said anything other than the person who tags it, owns the deer. Use the internet to check your game laws instead of the gossip forums.
     
  9. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    It is a fact.
     
  10. wankerjake

    wankerjake Member

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    I’d say it’s complete bunk, myself. Adrenalin is released every time animals get shot and die, even with a good shot. Not once has having to track and finish an animal affected the quality of the meat for me.
     
  11. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Kinda the just of this thread is not about ownership after someone tags it, but who really deserves the right to tag it. This is what I was referring to in an earlier post about folks racing to a downed deer to get their tag on first, even when they knew they were not the one to put the deer down for good. The linked article by the OP shows us that the law really doesn't care who "tagged" the deer first, but tries to determine who legitimately killed the deer, not just because they ran up to it, tagged it and yelled "mine"! Unfortunately folks believed that tagging it automatically gave them irrevocable ownership. Nowadays......most states, mine and your(Indiana) have kinda done away with "tagging". My states make you have a tag, but it does no longer have to be attached to the deer before you can field dress it or transport it. That tag now just has a number that you give when you electronically register the deer. I believe Indiana no longer has Carcass tags either, just what they call a temporary transportation tag. Doesn't give you ownership, just means you can legally transport the carcass till it is registered. Maybe I'm mistaken?

    Deer registration and tagging has changed a lot in my state since I started deer hunting 50 some years ago. Used to be you got one tag and you had to shoot the deer that you used it on. Tagging a deer someone else shot, or letting someone else use your tag was a big no-no. No group hunting allowed at all(where anyone in the party could use anyone's tag, now legal here). Even with a 4 person group antler-less tag, the shooter had to be wearing a armband when the shot was taken, or else it was a deer illegally shot. Deer had to be tagged before you touched the deer for any other purpose but to tag it. Many stories back in those days about folks who put their tag thru a deer's gambrel, only to have the deer jump up and run away with their tag. If you did not have a tag, you were not allowed to be in the woods during gun deer season with a firearm appropriate for taking deer. Nowadays it seems the DNR just wants them dead and tagging and registration is a thing of the past.

    Like a lot of other things about hunting this comes down to ethics. Ethics doesn't necessarily mean legal or not. Ethics is about doing the right thing. Until ethics crosses that line to illegal, there's not a lot a person can do about what other folk's ethics are. Back when I was a kid, deer were scarce around here. Even a spike was a big deal and the meat from a deer might mean whether or not a family had meat to eat. So one could see why folks might argue. Nowadays it has nuttin' to do with meat for the most part, but the horn and the stigma that goes along with gettin' the biggest buck. IME, those folks that steal another man's deer have a completely different story to tell once they get to the bar, as compared to what really happened in the woods.
     
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  12. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    If it is just purely a who deserves it and nothing else in the thread considered, I say the bullet closest to the heart gets it, or gets the RIGHT TO IT. A couple of times I've plain as day killed deer and "given" it to someone else who shot it, shot at it or just thought they had. One was a kid on public ground and he hadn't even hit it far as I could tell before he ran up on me.

    If a lame one walks by me, I'll knock it down, and I've given it to people who were looking for one they lost. Once even after I'd already gutted it. I really don't even want it but I'd put it down rather than watch it drag a leg.

    Machine Gun Matt as I like to describe the shoot every bullet in their gun and reload again crowd who chases all over every blade of grass by 9am opening day, they DESERVE a rifle butt in the teeth from every person they cross looking for it. That is ALL they deserve. They don't know good venison from swamp guts because every deer they ever killed was shot through the guts, neck and head, then dragged a mile through the creek, cow pasture and woods. Don't mean you can give 'em what they deserve, but I don't have to do 'em any favor and I won't.

    That is the "deserve" of it IMHO.
     
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  13. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    May be yours do.

    Mine don't.
     
  14. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Me neither, but I've never had to "finish off" any of the deer that I harvested as the first shot has always been all that was needed. o_O



    The point was two parts...first it was a deer that was hotly pursued in the OP's opening of the thread which puts a lot more adrenalin into the animal than other conditions, and second was that the large amount of adrenalin will make the deer meat very tough (even if the taste isn't noticed). ;)

    LD
     
  15. Highland Lofts

    Highland Lofts Member

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    I recently worked at a friends 550 cow dairy farm for a couple of years and got most of the cull cows to butcher. The cows that did the hind leg split on the concrete floor and damaged the muslesbetween their legs and or the ball socket definetly had an off flavor. I use to slaughter the cows and sell them for a $1 a pound hsnging weight.
    It would take me three hours from when I shot the cow to when I dropped the quarters off at the butcher shop.
    I would get between $550 to $750 a cow. One cow did the split and the ball socket pulled out and tore a bunch of musle. I had to return the cash back for the cow. I sold the two haves to two different people.
    Serious injuries does affect meat quality.
    Go ask at a full time butcher service.
     
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  16. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Never could bring myself to fuss over ownership of a deer. In about 1966 in southern MD i shot a nice buck in Doncaster WMA. Deer took off at the shot, couple minutes later i heard a shot. Followed the blood trail to the downed deer. There stood a father with his 15 year old son. The buck had been hit twice in the chest with shotgun slugs. We chatted, i congratulated the young man on his buck and departed.

    In my 80 years i have killed four really nice bucks: But antlers mean little to me. Many years ago a i bought three deer heads at an early morning garage sale for $60. The smallest scored 178 B&C points.

    After the great white hunter croaks the heads are the first things to go.
     
  17. Highland Lofts

    Highland Lofts Member

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    I set up a table a year ago September at our local gun show. I was talking to the guy set up next to me and he was at a garage sale and seen a handle for a Dillion reloading press sticking out of a plastic tote under a plastic fold up table.
    He asked the old lady "how much for the reloading press under the table?"
    She told him $25. It was pretty much covered so all he knew it was a dillion. He paid her and pulled it out and it was a progressive press that looked like new. He went to walk away and she yold him tslk all the other stuff in the two totes down there.
    She said her husband died and she hated the guns and everything that has anything to do with them.
    Twice I seen old ladies take in shopping carts full of guns to Cabelas to get rid of them after the husband died.

    ALASGR hit it right on the head, when the old man croaks, all his hunting stuff gets thrown out.

    My oldest sone bought some cheap mounts at a garage sale. A few nice whitetail bucks and a proghorn. Less then $100 for for all four or give mounts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019 at 9:39 AM
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  18. wankerjake

    wankerjake Member

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    Actually it was taste bad, but you hear tough a lot too. Hand in hand. I’m very familiar with the argument, having grown up with it all my life as well as the rest of us. It’s perhaps the most believed old hunters tale. I’ll start a topic perhaps to hash that out by itself, should be fun:D

    To get back on topic, who gets the deer, I find the specifics of the situation interesting on many levels. It’s an interesting web of ethics, popular beliefs, falsehoods, honor, misinterpretations and pride. This thread is a good example. Look at all the responses. Varying degrees of agreement and dissent. Which is why it’s a problem when two people have shot or think they have shot the same deer. It can be a mess and I’m glad I’ve never had to deal with an argument. There shouldn’t usually be a problem if both parties are good hunters and reasonable people. But alas ;)
     
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  19. wankerjake

    wankerjake Member

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    This is one of the dynamics that make it interesting to me. On one hand, we’ve got people who say: I’ll kill that wounded deer, but I don’t want it. I don’t want the meat because it’s been tainted, by adrenaline and by dishonor. I will dump a wounded buck as a favor to the jack wagon hunter and to the poor deer. But eating it is not on my to do list. I only want to eat an animal that was healthy before I found it, and killed honorably by me. The trophy lies not in the antlers but in the honor of a clean hunt, clean meat, and me doing my best. Antlers matter not, after the hunter is gone. Dust to dust.

    Also me: I want the large, cheap deer mounts at a yard sale
     
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  20. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Kansas law is “first blood.”
     
  21. Boattale

    Boattale Member

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    Worst thread ever.
     
  22. wombat13

    wombat13 Member

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    Thanks for your insight.
     
  23. stillquietvoice

    stillquietvoice Member

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    That is dependent on your perspective.
     
  24. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Meh.

    Situational.

    Always keep in mind that these are potentially dangerous encounters between strangers who are armed.

    If I take down a wounded animal being pursued, I'll shrug my shoulders and let them have it.

    It I take down a wounded animal with no apparent pursuers, it's mine.
     
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  25. Boattale

    Boattale Member

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    Who in their right mind is that concerned about a deer is my perspective.
     
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