Correia at SHOT show
- Thread starter Correia
- Start date
- Status
Zen21Tao
Member
Am I the only one that thinks Kel Tec would me making a business strategy mistake trying to push $1500-$2000 firearms? They have positioned themselves as an industry leader in the low cost niche of the firearms industry. By trying to differentiate their product line with higher dollar items they risk loosing part of that marketshare to other companies dealing in the low cost quality firearms. To be sucessful they would have to make up for this loss by gaining ground in the higher priced market segments. I simply see the current competition in $1500+ military sporting rifles too much for Kel Tec to compete without completely revamping their brand image.
I think price is only part of kel-tec's success, I think the rest of the story is told in them doing something different. How many people buy the sub2000 because it looks neat, or the plr16 because of the same reason? Is the p3at a success because its cheap or because its the only super lightweight polymer locked breech .380 in existence? If they can put their engineering skills to use making some equally innovative higher end weapons I think it might open up a new market to them and improve their image.
Dionysusigma
Member
And if they transfer ownership of the company, the price of their CC line will go up. Heck, with the advent of these bullpups, I can see that happening anyway.
Introduce with a low price, get people hooked, then up the price gradually like a frog in boiling water until they're the same price as Kahr. The SU line'll be as costly (if not moreso) than the Armalite AR-180B and Mini-14.
I hope to God Himself (actually prayed) it doesn't happen, as Kel-Tec is a great manufacturer who respects their customers (unlike most others).
Introduce with a low price, get people hooked, then up the price gradually like a frog in boiling water until they're the same price as Kahr. The SU line'll be as costly (if not moreso) than the Armalite AR-180B and Mini-14.
I hope to God Himself (actually prayed) it doesn't happen, as Kel-Tec is a great manufacturer who respects their customers (unlike most others).
JohnBT
Member
"What is the point of that Kel-Tec at $1500-$2000?"
Urban renewal. I really do need a small rifle.
John
Urban renewal. I really do need a small rifle.
John
Wes Janson
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2006
- Messages
- 1,962
My impression isn't that Kel-Tec has aimed for the el-cheapo market like Hi-Point, but rather that the things they've made have not been particularly elaborate or expensive firearms. Glocks aren't very pricey, but they are pretty good quality. It's just that Kel-Tec has finally come up with something more elaborate, and so the price reflects it.
redneck2
Member
OK, so I'm missing something here...
the sign says "7.62 NATO". On the propoganda part, it says "superior to .300 Win Magnum and close to .338 Lapua". I don't care if the barrel is 6 feet long. How is a .308 gonna match a .338 Lapua?? Does going from a 22-24" to a 30" make that much difference??
the sign says "7.62 NATO". On the propoganda part, it says "superior to .300 Win Magnum and close to .338 Lapua". I don't care if the barrel is 6 feet long. How is a .308 gonna match a .338 Lapua?? Does going from a 22-24" to a 30" make that much difference??
the 30-32 inch barrel model, to me that screams to be chambered in a real hum-dinger of a round. I am thinking that woud work well with the 300 remington short ultra mag or whatever it is called, probably easier to do that than strech her out to take 300 win mag.
Sox
Member
Correia,
How soon should we see the FNP45? Also, do you know if they plan to bring the FNP series out in subcompacts?
Thanks,
Dave
How soon should we see the FNP45? Also, do you know if they plan to bring the FNP series out in subcompacts?
Thanks,
Dave
Zen21Tao
Member
I was able to check out the Kel Tec .308 Bullpup in person today at SHOT. My initial impressions are that they look pretty nice, I especially like it with the rail system and bipod, but I just can't see myself shelling out $2000+ on one yet. Especially when Century has a Galil for around $800 and an semi-autoMG42 for around $2000.
The Kel Tec and I
The Kel Tec and I
redneck2
Member
Hey, you need to get your camera fixed. Part of the picture didn't print.
I still wanna know how Kel-Tec gets as much power out of a .308 as a .338 Lapua has
I still wanna know how Kel-Tec gets as much power out of a .308 as a .338 Lapua has
Declaration Day
Member
That Kel-Tec looks sweet! Unfortunately, I'm not paying $2000 for it. Not because it's "just a Kel-Tec" but because I've already invested that much in a tried-and-true M1a.
biere
Member
There is a 7+ page thread on the bull pup on the kel tec site.
There is an adjustable trigger for the longest version of the bull pup and it should drop into the other 2, lots of people are saying it is a great trigger for a bull pup but I want to see production triggers in person first.
Everyone who has held the bulpup or seen it up close has said this is a very well made rifle and if someone else had made it and put their name on it you would be looking at something in that price range or even higher.
I want to see one in person once they have been out for a bit and price has stabalized. I want to see how well a fal mag works in bullpup for changing mags, some people say it won't work well but I think this is just one of those things where I have to see it in person to make my own opinion.
I personally am only interested in the smallest version and price is a consideration to some extent, but if it comes in at 2k after taxes I think I will pick one up simply because I like 308 and have a mess of fal mags around here.
Since they made a target version of this rifle I am expecting accuracy to be pretty impressive.
As far as where kel tec places itself in the market place, I think they have shown they have good customer support and now they are trying to show what they can do from the get go instead of an owner needing to do a fluff and buff or send the gun back to kel tec for some work.
Lots of great info is in the thread at the keltec site, someone already put a link up in this thread, first page I think.
There is an adjustable trigger for the longest version of the bull pup and it should drop into the other 2, lots of people are saying it is a great trigger for a bull pup but I want to see production triggers in person first.
Everyone who has held the bulpup or seen it up close has said this is a very well made rifle and if someone else had made it and put their name on it you would be looking at something in that price range or even higher.
I want to see one in person once they have been out for a bit and price has stabalized. I want to see how well a fal mag works in bullpup for changing mags, some people say it won't work well but I think this is just one of those things where I have to see it in person to make my own opinion.
I personally am only interested in the smallest version and price is a consideration to some extent, but if it comes in at 2k after taxes I think I will pick one up simply because I like 308 and have a mess of fal mags around here.
Since they made a target version of this rifle I am expecting accuracy to be pretty impressive.
As far as where kel tec places itself in the market place, I think they have shown they have good customer support and now they are trying to show what they can do from the get go instead of an owner needing to do a fluff and buff or send the gun back to kel tec for some work.
Lots of great info is in the thread at the keltec site, someone already put a link up in this thread, first page I think.
possum
Member
Correia,
thanks for the report, i would really like to know more about some of the guns you mentioned, i can't wait till you can tell us all about them later!
thanks for the report, i would really like to know more about some of the guns you mentioned, i can't wait till you can tell us all about them later!
these are the two that i am most interested in right now! thanks again! man i wish i could have been there.
Whats the deal w/ the Masada rifle, any price hints or availability news or anything? Looks awesome in the pics I saw on AR15.com, don't know if they got posted here (down the thread just a bit: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=1&t=532712 ), but I figure it's $1000+ if not $1500 which dampens my excitement...
ETA: Dug around on those links from ARFCOM, $1400ish for the Masada. Hope there are non-Leo/mil sales.
Thread here on THR too: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=247377
ETA: Dug around on those links from ARFCOM, $1400ish for the Masada. Hope there are non-Leo/mil sales.
Thread here on THR too: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=247377
Last edited:
Seancass
Member
someone post the link to gunblast's coverage of the show.
rockstar.esq
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2004
- Messages
- 1,475
So here are the questions that nobodys asked about the Kel Tec rifle.
Does the thing have a last shot bolt hold open?
Call me crazy if you want but the FN FS2000 was as good as sold until I found out it didn't hold the friggen bolt open. I simply can not stand a NEW gun not having such a hugely convieninent feature.
Second question, does the magazine drop free or does it require the tilt lock like standard FALs?
Third question, why are people crapping on the most innovative product displayed?
Does the thing have a last shot bolt hold open?
Call me crazy if you want but the FN FS2000 was as good as sold until I found out it didn't hold the friggen bolt open. I simply can not stand a NEW gun not having such a hugely convieninent feature.
Second question, does the magazine drop free or does it require the tilt lock like standard FALs?
Third question, why are people crapping on the most innovative product displayed?
Geronimo45
Member
"someone post the link to gunblast's coverage of the show."
http://www.gunblast.com/SHOT_Show_2007.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/SHOT_Show_2007.htm
wacki
Member
That is one odd ejection mechanism. Why would they do that?
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Ejection
Well, they're not the first to do this. Someone else does one that ejects through a similar tube beneath the barrel. I'll have to ask Paul at work.
The short answer is AMBIDEXTROUS.
Bull-pups are notoriously right-handed. Lefties pick them up and discover the ejection port is just about perfect for brass in the cheek (or even the eye).
You could, of course, just make some lefty-friendly versions, but now you're into the "economies of scale" thing.
If I were building one of these for some kind of military application, I'd try to find a way to make exactly one version of the action and not have to care whether a righty or lefty was the operator.
I hope they've tested the hell out of that exit tube. No fun if that gets fouled and binds up.
Well, they're not the first to do this. Someone else does one that ejects through a similar tube beneath the barrel. I'll have to ask Paul at work.
The short answer is AMBIDEXTROUS.
Bull-pups are notoriously right-handed. Lefties pick them up and discover the ejection port is just about perfect for brass in the cheek (or even the eye).
You could, of course, just make some lefty-friendly versions, but now you're into the "economies of scale" thing.
If I were building one of these for some kind of military application, I'd try to find a way to make exactly one version of the action and not have to care whether a righty or lefty was the operator.
I hope they've tested the hell out of that exit tube. No fun if that gets fouled and binds up.
Dave Markowitz
Member
There's another good reason for making the ejection system of a bullpup ambidextrous. If it's being used as a serious rifle, the shooter may need to mount it on his weak side, e.g., to shoot around a corner while minimizing his exposure. This is normally not a problem with a conventional rifle but it is with most bullpups.
feedthehogs
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2003
- Messages
- 1,801
Spent Sunday at the show.
While I share the enthusiasm of some of the new products, my thought on any firearm is does it shoot well?
Until some range reports from those other than manufacturer or paid advertiser come out on said mentioned products and others I wouldn't be so quick to jump.
So much cool looking stuff has been out in the past only to produce sub par results at the range.
Finaly got a Beretta service guy to admit the Tomcat is junk and not designed to go shooting at the range. Only designed as a backup, not really to shoot. Have 4 students who bought them and all the frames broke.
Manufacturing quality on some items has gone up, while others has gone down. It seems they try to pass off the items with glitz, glitter and smoke and mirrors.
Ask hard questions and they stumble.
Tactical, spec ops and desert camo was represented in force. War is good for sales.
Knives were represented in good force and Cold Steel has some new stuff thats very well made. Al Mar stuff stills not as good as the old stuff.
Being a retailer, I tend to look at these trade shows with mixed feelings until all new products are "field" tested by consumers. All in all it was a good show and couldn't think of anything better to do for the day but will wait for those range reports to come out.
While I share the enthusiasm of some of the new products, my thought on any firearm is does it shoot well?
Until some range reports from those other than manufacturer or paid advertiser come out on said mentioned products and others I wouldn't be so quick to jump.
So much cool looking stuff has been out in the past only to produce sub par results at the range.
Finaly got a Beretta service guy to admit the Tomcat is junk and not designed to go shooting at the range. Only designed as a backup, not really to shoot. Have 4 students who bought them and all the frames broke.
Manufacturing quality on some items has gone up, while others has gone down. It seems they try to pass off the items with glitz, glitter and smoke and mirrors.
Ask hard questions and they stumble.
Tactical, spec ops and desert camo was represented in force. War is good for sales.
Knives were represented in good force and Cold Steel has some new stuff thats very well made. Al Mar stuff stills not as good as the old stuff.
Being a retailer, I tend to look at these trade shows with mixed feelings until all new products are "field" tested by consumers. All in all it was a good show and couldn't think of anything better to do for the day but will wait for those range reports to come out.
- Status
