Cross draw/Calvary draw

[jeepnik]

I've posted before that done properly a cross draw is no more "dangerous" than strong side. Speed, if you ever need that extra bit of speed, things have gone terribly wrong, or you just weren't paying attention.

And here's my challenge to strong side folks. We'll have a speed contest. You draw with your off hand from your strong side, and I will execute a "cavalry" draw with my off hand. Assuming you can even get the darned thing out, you are going to be very very slow.

As a little side note, I was in a gun shop a while back. I was talking to a young officer and he commented on my cross. I ask him if he ever tried to draw his service weapon with his off hand. Retention holsters may be a good idea to prevent snatches, but they really suck when your strong hand is out of commission and you really really need that handgun.

 

[Billy Shears]

I've posted before that done properly a cross draw is no more "dangerous" than strong side. Speed, if you ever need that extra bit of speed, things have gone terribly wrong, or you just weren't paying attention.

And here's my challenge to strong side folks. We'll have a speed contest. You draw with your off hand from your strong side, and I will execute a "cavalry" draw with my off hand. Assuming you can even get the darned thing out, you are going to be very very slow.

As a little side note, I was in a gun shop a while back. I was talking to a young officer and he commented on my cross. I ask him if he ever tried to draw his service weapon with his off hand. Retention holsters may be a good idea to prevent snatches, but they really suck when your strong hand is out of commission and you really really need that handgun.

There's a problem with this line of thinking: you are planning around a less likely event, rather than the more likely scenario. It is always possible, of course, that should the time come that you ever need to draw your weapon in self defense, it will occur at a time when your strong hand has been somehow disabled. Yet it is also true that the vast majority of self defense shootings do not go down that way. In other words, if you do, God forbid, ever need to defend yourself with your weapon, you are almost certainly going to do so by executing the draw with your strong hand. I do not want a method of draw that makes me slower using my strong hand,in order to make me faster with my support hand, not when the chances of my actually having to use my support hand pale in comparison to the chances of my using my strong hand.

I would only prefer cross draw if my situation made it more likely to deploy my weapon in a situation where the cross draw offered a clear advantage over strong side carry -- for example, if I were a cab driver, or someone else who spent a lot of time driving, where the cross draw would make it much easier to draw while seated behind the wheel than strong side carry would.

 

[jeepnik]

There's a problem with this line of thinking: you are planning around a less likely event, rather than the more likely scenario. It is always possible, of course, that should the time come that you ever need to draw your weapon in self defense, it will occur at a time when your strong hand has been somehow disabled. Yet it is also true that the vast majority of self defense shootings do not go down that way. In other words, if you do, God forbid, ever need to defend yourself with your weapon, you are almost certainly going to do so by executing the draw with your strong hand. I do not want a method of draw that makes me slower using my strong hand,in order to make me faster with my support hand, not when the chances of my actually having to use my support hand pale in comparison to the chances of my using my strong hand.

I would only prefer cross draw if my situation made it more likely to deploy my weapon in a situation where the cross draw offered a clear advantage over strong side carry -- for example, if I were a cab driver, or someone else who spent a lot of time driving, where the cross draw would make it much easier to draw while seated behind the wheel than strong side carry would.

So, have you tried to draw with your off hand yet? And since Murphy always seems to pop his ugly head up at the worst time, what's wrong with being prepared for the less likely event.

 

[royal barnes]

I carry iwb at 4:00. I'm 69 with enough arthritis to keep me from accessing my carry with my weak hand. I spend my time practicing with my strong hand. If it is disabled and I can't kick, gouge, scratch or bite my way out then I just lose the fight.

P.S. to the OP. Calvary is a place of reverence for many. Cavalry is a mounted military unit.

 

[Billy Shears]

So, have you tried to draw with your off hand yet? And since Murphy always seems to pop his ugly head up at the worst time, what's wrong with being prepared for the less likely event.

If you have to draw in self defense, Murphy has already reared his head. Yes, I have. I can manage it, though it is much slower. And there's nothing wrong with being prepared for the less likely event. However when that preparation negatively impacts your preparedness for the hugely more likely event...

Well, there are no perfect solutions in life; everything is a tradeoff. On the whole, it seems to me that the better tradeoff is to maximize my speed for the hugely more likely event. I am vastly more likely to have to draw in self defense standing up, with an assailant at bad breath distance. In that much more likely scenario, not only is the cross draw marginally slower, it also greatly increases the ability of the assailant to snatch my weapon or block my draw. If the less likely event occurs, I'll have to cope as best I can.

 

[Sam1911]

On the whole, it seems to me that the better tradeoff is to maximize my speed for the hugely more likely event. I am vastly more likely to have to draw in self defense standing up, with an assailant at bad breath distance. In that much more likely scenario, not only is the cross draw marginally slower, it also greatly increases the ability of the assailant to snatch my weapon or block my draw. If the less likely event occurs, I'll have to cope as best I can.

The second part there is probably even more important than the pure speed aspect. Cross draw presents serious deficits when in a grappling situation, ambushed, jumped, knocked down, or otherwise restricted in movement.

Those issues MIGHT not come into play. But then again, the disabled strong hand might not come into play, either. Generally we choose the option with the greatest number of positive aspects, not the one that might be good in one specific way but bad in others.

 

[CA Raider]

"The young Naval Officer that was conceal carrying in the Los Vagas Costco was printing and it did not end will for his family."

not sure that's a fair comparison though. The ending for that incident was entirely due to communications and actions ... between the guy and police. it wasn't a "gun draw" kinda thing, at least from the reports I read.

Best thing for the OP to do is to go to a range or store and try on holsters.
CA R

 

[9mmepiphany]

"The young Naval Officer that was conceal carrying in the Los Vagas Costco was printing and it did not end will for his family."

not sure that's a fair comparison though. The ending for that incident was entirely due to communications and actions ... between the guy and police. it wasn't a "gun draw" kinda thing, at least from the reports I read.

Best thing for the OP to do is to go to a range or store and try on holsters.
CA R

It really isn't a good comparison. The reason he came to the attention of the store staff wasn't his "printing", it was his erratic behavior while shopping. His gun coming into view did result in LE being called.

BTW: he wasn't a Naval Officer, he'd been discharged

 

[NewGuy1911]

Thanks for the correction, thought he was a West Point guy. Believe your correct. What happened to him just hit me hard

 

[farm23]

Cross draw does have its place. I find it more convenient when on the tractor or horseback. I don't find it good when in town or walking.

 

[HammsBeer]

What about strong side carry with a primary gun, and a weak side pocket carry of a backup gun?

 

[Billy Shears]

What about strong side carry with a primary gun, and a weak side pocket carry of a backup gun?

When I am in uniform, that is almost precisely the method of carry I use -- my backup is not in a pocket, but it's on the right side of my ballistic vest, accessible most easily to the left hand. I have done it this way, because I believe the most likely scenario wherein I might need a small, backup handgun, is when I am struggling to retain control of my primary weapon, which is, of course, carried on the belt on the strong (right) side. If I am trying to retain control of the primary weapon, I can -- hopefully -- deploy the backup with my left hand.

I suggest that whatever method of carry is used, for both primary and backup (if any) weapon, it should be based on the likeliest threat. There is a literally endless variety of possible threats. But since we can't predict the future, the wisest course, the one which maximizes our chances of survival, given all the probabilities, is to focus on the likeliest threat, and the best weapon, and method of carry, which answers that scenario. That will vary a bit for each of us, based on our profession, location, lifestyle, frequented areas, et al.

 

[crazyjz]

Crossdraw carry has it's place.

I could not help but comment when I ran across this thread. I am no expert but have more than 30 years of carrying concealed weapons under my belt. I absolutely do claim to have spent tens of thousands of dollars on guns and holsters in my day and think I am qualified to say what works for ME and why.

Shoulder Holsters:
- an awesome way to get through a day working out of a car or behind a desk with a need to carry

- an awesome way to carry if you are in a climate where a coat or jacket is the norm

- nearly as fast as strong side carry with a bit of practice. Yeah yeah, slow is not good but generally, we're talking fractions of a second.

Cross Draw Holsters:

- perhaps the very best mode of carry for ops spending large amounts of time behind the wheel, handlebars or reins

- fairly quick with a bit of practice

- a few concerns pertaining to weapon retention when carried outside the vehicle

Point being, these two types of holsters could be considered the very best choice under certain conditions. That is why many of us have dozens of holsters and guns. We pick the tool for the task at hand.

If I lived in Alaska and had an outdoorsy job, I would carry shoulder holster every day-period.

If I was a cab driver in a slightly warmer climate, you would not catch me without my cross-draw holster!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Shoulder Holsters:
- nearly as fast as strong side carry with a bit of practice. Yeah yeah, slow is not good but generally, we're talking fractions of a second.

Cross Draw Holsters:
- fairly quick with a bit of practice

I found this contrast a bit interesting. In your experience, why would cross draw carry, be slower than that from a shoulder holster.

I consider that how one defines cross draw plays into this. If driving, I'd think that you'd carry the holster just to the side of your belt buckle

 

[crazyjz]

Crossdraw and Shoulderholster

No, I meant that crossdraw is generally a bit slower than strong side, not slower than shoulder holster.

For me, and ONLY me, I am just about as quick cross draw as I am strong side. I mean really close. It definately takes me longer to get on target with a shoulder holster draw than with a strong side or appendix carry.


I have three or four shoulder rigs but generally use my Alessi pull through or my Galco Jackass rig. Both are very comfortable and if you have to carry a gun for 12 or 14 hours a day, it is a nice option.

My cross draw rigs are mostly custom and all for 1911 and full size sig saurs. They are almost totally relegated to long days behind the wheel where a loose fitting shirt covers everything up.

Again, these would not be my first, second or third choices if I was going to serve a warrant, expected trouble or was largely going to be on my feet.

Crossdraw holsters whether belt worn or in a shoulder rig are excellent holsters for specific jobs, good holsters for some jobs and terrible holsters for all the rest!