CZ - which one?

[I6turbo]

Who cares? I'm comparing the two rifles I own.

My reply was to your incorrect comparison of the finish on your FS to the American finish. That, and in case someone wanted some factual information on the differences in the finishes.

Here's a thought, someone might like a CZ rimfire model as a trainer for their dangerous game rifle. Doesn't really work when the safeties operate in opposite directions. Ever think of that?

As I said earlier, it doesn't matter to me what kind of safety some other gun that isn't in my hand has. I use the safety on the gun in my hand. For people who can't do that, I'd rather they not be around me with a loaded weapon.

 

[CraigC]

My reply was to your incorrect comparison of the finish on your FS to the American finish. That, and in case someone wanted some factual information on the differences in the finishes.

Looks the same to me. Or close enough that the difference is immaterial. Besides, I was stating my preference, not providing a comprehensive rundown of CZ finish options.

As I said earlier, it doesn't matter to me what kind of safety some other gun that isn't in my hand has. I use the safety on the gun in my hand. For people who can't do that, I'd rather they not be around me with a loaded weapon.

That's a cute defensive reaction and attempt to insult. Muscle memory is a thing and when it comes to firearm safety mechanisms, it's kinda important. One that operates intuitively is MUCH preferable over one that does not. One that is used as a trainer (maybe you don't know what that means?) should operate just like whatever you're using it as an understudy for. You shouldn't have to engage your brain to think about how to operate it. Again, CZ changed it for a reason. So you can stop getting defensive because I don't share your opinion and haven't drank the Kool Aid. The whole reasoning behind my response is that CZ fans always tout their favorite play pretty as the answer to every question, even if it is tangential to the discussion. Their flaws and foibles are never mentioned. The safety and bolt interference issues are only brought up occasionally. Relax, I have four CZ's and am only partly dissatisfied with one of them.

 

[Picher]

I’m definitely putting on a scope, so iron sights add no value to me, and I like the aesthetics of the American model. Both options I’m looking at are the American. If I get the 457, I’m leaning toward the 17 HMR for its extended distance, and accuracy. Any reason I shouldn’t? Does anyone here have experience hunting squirrels with a 17 hmr?

I haven't hunted squirrels with the .17, and would try head shots, or a lot of meat could be wasted.

The best thing about the .17 HMR is that the bullet path can be very close to the scope crosshairs out to 140 yards, when sighted-in 3/4" high at 100 yards. That puts the bullet path within 1" of crosshairs from 50 yards to 140 yards. I don't know about your average shot distances, but if under 75 yards, receiver sights might be a better choice, for that cartridge's lazer-like trajectory.

 

[CraigC]

Officially kicked my 452FS down the road this afternoon. Traded it for two 10/22's.

 

[d2wing]

I can't help you choose between CZ models. I can tell you that I have a beautiful CZ 452 American , highly polished deep blue metal and very nice wood that is pretty darn accurate. They haven't made them that pretty in years that I can tell. It is beautiful and a consistent match winner. I also have a newer 452 Lux, a matte finish and average wood but is still as accurate as the American and also a match winner.
That said, a new 457 should be accurate as well, and you have the option of changing barrels to aftermarket if you choose. I don't think there is a definitive answer as to which is best but lots of folks really like the new 457 including some 452 owners. The scope position or different safety has never been an issue for me but it is to a few. I would also consider a new Tikka or Bergera rimfire as well.
I have thought about trying a new model but there isn't much point in a sport model other than what I have unless one wants to go to an Annie, or if I lose to tighter groups. I also have a 540 XR Remington, a full fledged target rifle that outshoots the CZ's anyway.

 

[Edcnh]

I have a CZ 452 that is a tack driver with “good” ammo. Mine likes Wolf Match Target which is not cheap, but then I don’t use the good ammo when plinking.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Well, I won the auction on the CZ 452 American 17HMR. Now I'm wondering if I made the right choice. I didn't win the 452 scout for my boy, so I bought him the new 457 scout. Now I'm having buyers remorse. I guess if it doesn't shoot well, I can trade it in at the local gun shop and get a 457 American? I bought a new scope for each. Got the Leupold Freedom Rimfire 3-9x40, and the Alumina cover kit for both. I would have bought the 2-7x33, but couldn't find any Alumina kits for a 33. Went with the Warne 7.3 rings for him, and mine comes with rings, and 1 5 round magazine, and 2 10 round magazines, so I didn't need rings. I guess I'll see how it shoots, and go from there. I guess my concern is the fact that it has opposite safety, and with the guns so similar, my boy may mix it up sometime??? IDK... I'm probably just being dumb.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

 

[HoosierHunter128]

It looks to me like it’s in pretty good shape. Hope she’s a shooter.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Hopefully I can clean this up. Anyone see any issues?

 

[HoosierHunter128]

also, you guys know much more about wood on these than i do... what do you think? You're not going to hurt my feelings. If you cant tell, this is my first used purchase online...

 

[redneck2]

I have a 453, which I think is a 452 with a set trigger. Wood on mine is about the same as yours.

Before you get too excited about getting rid of it, shoot off a really (and I mean really) good rest. Understand that brand new CZ’s have some type of coating in the bore which absolutely kills initial accuracy. My 453 was awful, as was my 527 until I got maybe a hundred rounds thru each. I wouldn’t even bother shooting for groups before that.

My 527 is .204 and initial hand loads were 5-6” range. Now it shoots .5’s

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I have a 453, which I think is a 452 with a set trigger. Wood on mine is about the same as yours.

Before you get too excited about getting rid of it, shoot off a really (and I mean really) good rest. Understand that brand new CZ’s have some type of coating in the bore which absolutely kills initial accuracy. My 453 was awful, as was my 527 until I got maybe a hundred rounds thru each. I wouldn’t even bother shooting for groups before that.

great advise for my boy's new 457. Thanks. Surely whoever owned the used 452 has shot at least that many rounds through it. Hopefully they cleaned it some too...

 

[redneck2]

Once you get it broken in, try some Wolf Match Extra. It seems to do universally well in CZ’s. Yeah, it’s more expensive. For a reason.

Don’t waste your money until it’s broken in

 

[CraigC]

also, you guys know much more about wood on these than i do... what do you think? You're not going to hurt my feelings. If you cant tell, this is my first used purchase online...

It's got some life in it. Definitely better than average wood, even for CZ.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

It's got some life in it. Definitely better than average wood, even for CZ.

Awesome to hear...thanks

 

[HoosierHunter128]

It's got some life in it. Definitely better than average wood, even for CZ.

I definitely stepped out of my comfort zone buying this...but I wanted accurate and all metal...

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I was raised in a shotgun only deer state, and still have my old 870 express from the 80’s. I can shoot 2- 3” groups with cheap Remington sluggers at 75-100 yards. All wood and metal. Old school. It looks like hell, but I’ll never get rid of that gun, even though we’re now a rifle state. I guess I’m old fashioned...

 

[HoosierHunter128]

My model 70 westerner in .270 makes its way into the woods now mostly, unless it’s snowing or raining, then I bring my weatherby weatherguard 30/06, but maybe this year I’ll take that old 12 ga Remington out of the gun safe for old times...why not...it’s never let me down...

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Any other thoughts on the wood or chamber of that CZ?

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Man...I was really hoping for some comments on the wood and that chamber...good or bad

 

[CraigC]

The .17HMR tends to be EXTREMELY accurate. My Savage shoots half inch groups at 100yds. It also shoots very flat, I've popped crows at 250yds with it. On edible small game, you just want to use FMJ's or make only head shots, as the expanding bullets are rather explosive.

 

[I6turbo]

Man...I was really hoping for some comments on the wood and that chamber...good or bad

Based upon those photos, that's about average wood for a walnut-stocked CZ. As I said earlier, the finish that they put on the 452 and 455 Americans was nicer than on the non-American models. The end result is that you've bought a gun there with nice-looking wood.

All that said, you need to get the gun into your possession so you can see it with the naked eye. CZ finishes photograph differently under different lighting (this is true with all of them, but even more so with the non-American models). Wood grain features come through differently depending upon the camera and the light angle, so you can't always tell from a photo how it'll look in person. It's probably going to be a very nice looking gun.

That's not a picture of a chamber that you posted. Those are just some chatter marks in the bolt guide insert that the magazine seats up into. As long as the magazine inserts and removes normally the chatter marks won't impact functionality. The more important surfaces are the top rails of that insert where the bottom of the bolt slides fore and aft. If you want, you can remove that piece and inspect it more thoroughly after you remove the magazine well. Here's the part: https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/513002918820_Bolt-Guide-452-Wmrhmr

As for the barrel, just clean it and start fresh. Be aware that the bluing salts that remain in the barrel post-manufacturing are kind of tenacious, so if it hasn't been shot much or at all, it'll take several patches and probably some brushing to get the barrel to the point that the patches stop coming up with a lot of brown stains. In my experience (with more than 20 CZ rifles) they don't need nearly as much break-in as internet lore claims in order to start shooting close to their best. Also be aware that you can play around with the torque settings on the action screws and it can impact accuracy. And as with most guns, wood-to-metal contact can be a factor. Best approach is to clean it, shoot it, and go from there. Chances are that it'll shoot very well for you. If not, or if you want to make it as good as it can be, you can start systematically working though the usual points to find what it needs to improve shooting performance.

If you want to learn more the 452 and how to get the most out of it, go here for a pre-assembled set of sticky threads:
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234957

For other other discussions on the 452, 455 and 457, go here:
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Based upon those photos, that's about average wood for a walnut-stocked CZ. As I said earlier, the finish that they put on the 452 and 455 Americans was nicer than on the non-American models. The end result is that you've bought a gun there with nice-looking wood.

All that said, you need to get the gun into your possession so you can see it with the naked eye. CZ finishes photograph differently under different lighting (this is true with all of them, but even more so with the non-American models). Wood grain features come through differently depending upon the camera and the light angle, so you can't always tell from a photo how it'll look in person. It's probably going to be a very nice looking gun.

That's not a picture of a chamber that you posted. Those are just some chatter marks in the bolt guide insert that the magazine seats up into. As long as the magazine inserts and removes normally the chatter marks won't impact functionality. The more important surfaces are the top rails of that insert where the bottom of the bolt slides fore and aft. If you want, you can remove that piece and inspect it more thoroughly after you remove the magazine well. Here's the part: https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/513002918820_Bolt-Guide-452-Wmrhmr

As for the barrel, just clean it and start fresh. Be aware that the bluing salts that remain in the barrel post-manufacturing are kind of tenacious, so if it hasn't been shot much or at all, it'll take several patches and probably some brushing to get the barrel to the point that the patches stop coming up with a lot of brown stains. In my experience (with more than 20 CZ rifles) they don't need nearly as much break-in as internet lore claims in order to start shooting close to their best. Also be aware that you can play around with the torque settings on the action screws and it can impact accuracy. And as with most guns, wood-to-metal contact can be a factor. Best approach is to clean it, shoot it, and go from there. Chances are that it'll shoot very well for you. If not, or if you want to make it as good as it can be, you can start systematically working though the usual points to find what it needs to improve shooting performance.

If you want to learn more the 452 and how to get the most out of it, go here for a pre-assembled set of sticky threads:
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234957

For other other discussions on the 452, 455 and 457, go here:
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

Thanks for all the info. Will do!

 

[redneck2]

Dude....IMO you’re obsessing WAY too much. The wood on CZ’s is typically never really good or bad.

Buy it, use it. You will very most likely be highly impressed