Daggers, Boot Knives & SD Folders

[AStone]

Thanks very much for your Spyderco recs and links.
I'm eager to check them out, and no doubt will over or after dinner tonight.

Well, I've done my homework.

I not only checked them out, I studied them in detail.

The three that really stuck out: Chinook 3, Para-military & Manix 2.

Suffice to say for now - because it's late and I'm tired, ready to sleep -
the Manix 2 has my vote.

In getting to that conclusion, I read and watched youtube reviews,
learned about different knife grinds (FFG, hollow, etc), finally understood
the concept of Bowie (Chinook is a modification), and some other stuff.

But given the price, the size, the quality, the steel,
the shape of the blade - point, slash potential
(even if hollow, but my Sog SPE is hollow) -
the wide positive grips and gimps -
the Manix 2 gets the call.

 

[conw]

even if hollow

FYI Nema, hollow works great for slicing and slashing. I've noticed a lot of strange hype lately about different grinds. Spyderco fans in particular seem to have taken to acting like anything other than a full flat grind isn't worth carrying. Personally I find hollow grind, saber grind (w/ flat or hollow primary bevel), full flat grind, or shallow convex edge all have their advantages, but barely. Certainly not to the degree people on message boards are focusing on it this year. If anything HG should have a slight advantage over FFG of the same thickness for cutting, or a slight strength advantage over FFG of equal cutting ability. Saber grind is just a good all-around versatile choice that's nice and sturdy. And assuming we aren't discussing some kind of wacky unusual design, thickness (thinness) is still the most important factor in ease of slicing/cutting. Probably lots of people forget that FFGs are usually (not always) thinner overall, which alone could create the illusion that it is the FFG (rather than different/more optimal blade thickness) that is creating the advantage.

I do commend spyderco for having the best edges and angles out of the box in my somewhat limited experience. However, all the major formats are proven and all are fairly suitable for most tasks. Anyone who advises others to steer clear of a specific type of grind/format based on his own prejudice is just being ignorant and overly general.

 

[hso]

Nem,

You're not looking for an ax or bush knife so what's the concern about hollow grind?

 

[AStone]

Ah, good. Thanks for the education about grinds.
Yes, I fell for the diatribes about HG that I was reading last weekend.
(Yes, yes, it's the Internet, so read with a large block of salt, etc.)

 

[proud2deviate]

Spyderco comparison shots.



Top to bottom, Manix (discontinued,) Police 3, SS Police, SS Rookie (discontinued.)

The Manix is a chunk!

 

[AStone]

Interesting. Nice to see side by side comparison of different grinds.

Thanks.

I'll confess I've never paid much attention to them, until now.

(Yes, I'm a grasshoppa ... )

 

[proud2deviate]

The grind is of little importance, IMOHO. The general user will find little difference between flat and spear/hollow grounds. In general, flat ground slices a little better, and looks a little prettier. The advantages of a hollow grind should not be discounted, though.

 

[AStone]

I went to the main knife shop here today looking for Spydercos, hoping to see the Manix 2.
No luck. They've handled it before, but no longer.

I did get to handle a delica [sp?].

But they had a Benchmade Griptilian 550HG with the spyder hole.
Felt pretty good, appeals to me because of the axis lock
(which my Osborne has, so familiar feel) even if the handle feels a bit ...well, cheap.

Can any of you officiandos contrast it with the Manix 2?
(John, I'm looking in your general direction.)

Thanks.

Nem

 

[JShirley]

I had a Griptillian once. I "sold" it to a fellow squadmate, who has yet to pay me.

It's not a Spyderco, but it's a pretty good knife. I would expect it to be plenty strong, if not practically indestructible like the Manix series.

 

[hso]

Grippy is a tool primarily. You're looking for a weapon, primarily.

 

[AStone]

That's interesting, Hso.

I don't doubt your characterization, but can you help me understand your reasoning?

Why is the "grippy" a tool and not a weapon. What is it lacking to be a weapon?

And do you see the Manix 2 the same way?

 

[conw]

I can't speak for HSO but I agree with him and my reasoning is that the griptilian is just not big enough or heavy enough to offer a particular advantage as a weapon. It's really not that large a knife. Smaller and way less hefty than the manix 2, since you asked.

 

[The Highlander]

The benchmade is a bit thin, the blade is on the small side, and I'd rather have a different handle material, or at least some additional means of retention (ie- finger grooves, thumb ramp, etc.) For a cheap sd blade I recommend the Spyderco Tenacious. While their blade lengths are similar, the Tenacious has a deeper, beefier blade, with moderately grippy G10 scales and large al beit light (due to skeletonizing) stainless steel liners. I've driven one of mine through some thick drywall and in spite of some serious abuse, none of mine had seen any tip/edge damage. The steel is pretty average (I'd put it around a good AUS-8 or 440C) but it takes a decent edge. There are superior offerings, but nothing close to it in terms of price. I wouldn't quite call it disposable per se, but at around $25-40, you get a great blade which can be replaced much more readily than a Sebenza or a Microtech. (or a grip)

 

[hso]

The modified sheepsfoot of the Griptilian puts the point out of line with the axis of the grip and therefore reduces the thrusting potential slightly. The straighter edge makes slashing less efficient than one with more curvature along entire edge.


The point is more in line with the center line of the grip and the curvature of the edge makes slashing more efficient without the curvature being so great that the edge skates off of surfaces.

 

[AStone]

Great explanations, guys. Thanks.

 

[AStone]

Highlander, that Tenacious indeed gets good reviews for a knife in its price range.

 

[Boomm]

I've been into knives, in general, for years.

Here is the conclusion that I have come to as far as self defense goes: If you stab somebody with a 4in blade, they are going to just as messed up as if you stab them with ANY other 4in blade. Doesn't matter if it is a tanto, dagger, bowie, drop point, screw driver, etc. The end result is the same. Regardless of the type of knife, they now have a 4in piece of steel slicing through their body.

Same thing goes for the type of steel. The exact same thing is going to happen of you stab them with a piece of S30V, 440C, VG-10, SK-5, scrap metal etc. No matter what you use, they are going to have a sharp piece of steel embedded in their body.

And price? You guessed it. A $50 blade will open a person up just like a $2000 blade will.

That being said, go with whatever you want! Get whatever appeals to you the most. If you like one style in particular, go for it!

 

[AStone]

That being said, go with whatever you want!
Get whatever appeals to you the most.

Thanks, Boomm.

I'm leaning towards the Manix 2.

I've learned from the posts above
what separates a tool from a weapon.

I've watched more videos about it.

One. [FG]

Two. [HG]

More $?
Yep.

Worth it?
We'll see.

 

[conw]

I think you knife knuts sold *me* on a manix II, but I wanted to pass on a cool deal I found on this guy to you, Nematocyst:



This is the Junkyard Dog 2 I mentioned before, a version with a CPM-D2 edge. The G10 scales are well-executed and I would put it in the same class as the Manix 2. They have a lot of similarities. The JYD2 is 5/8" longer overall with about the same length blade as the Manix 2.

Anyway I don't stand to profit from this, but I thought you might be interested in this thread I found on Kershaw factory blemishes; a guy on bladeforums is selling the above knife for $45 shipped as opposed to the usual price of $80 plus once shipping is factored in.. According to reviews the blemishes are hardly noticeable or not at all noticeable in most cases...usually amounting to a scratch or nick.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602230

If this is in violation of any forum rules, please accept my apologies.

 

[JShirley]

Not a bad knife, but that's a liner lock, right? The Manix has a locking system several times as strong.

 

[conw]

Yeah, I have to say that the Manix probably takes the cake dollar for dollar due to the locking system (otherwise they are pretty much even, or down to preference e.g. in the case of the ergos).

Like I said you make a good point JS, but I'm not sure what you might have to do to get the JYD2 liner lock to fail. It is the thickest liner lock I've ever seen, with perfect fit. Someone who wants to try out different knives might really appreciate the $40ish savings over the Manix if they went with a blemished JYD2...heck, get both, you'd be right at $130 Nematocyst

EDIT:

This is just pedantry on my part really, but can anyone show me tests demonstrating where a well-executed liner lock failed? I'm genuinely interested. The reason I ask is not because I think you're wrong, John, but because I really am wondering if this is a realistic concern. The only liner lock I have is the JYD2, but I've never felt it was anything less than sturdy. What types of scenarios cause this locking mechanism to fail? Are any of them realistic use scenarios? Thanks...no need to indulge me unless you have extra time on your hands

 

[JShirley]

Hey, it's a good price on what seems like a pretty decent knife. I've even considered getting one myself.



But then, I think, why? I'll just end up carrying a Spyderco again, eventually.

 

[conw]

Hah.

While I'm asking random questions, I keep seeing/hearing knife reviewers say "This G10 is really well executed, it shouldn't hurt your hands like most G10."


Seriously? Does anyone who carries big beefy knives trimmed in G10 have hands that are that girly?

Where are these people?
Psst...John...let's steal their knives!

 

[AStone]

This is such a great discussion.

I appreciate the cordiality of the conversation.

I'm learning so much.

heck, get both, you'd be right at $130 Nematocyst

Conwict, if that was an option, I would.

But I've got huge expenses coming up. (Closing my business, redesigning it for the road, changing the base of my operations this summer, etc.) So, I'll just be buying one ... at least for now.

I'm not really much of a "collector". As most will tell you, my goal is a minimalist toolkit (in part because I'm semi-nomadic and just don't want to haul a lot of stuff around).

But thanks for the thought!

Nem

 

[JShirley]

My concern is more about tearing up pants and having a slowed presentation. Definitely a trade-off, and one of the reasons I prefer canvas micarta to G10.

But G10 is definitely strong and lightweight.