Daggers, Boot Knives & SD Folders

[harmon rabb]

your state laws on knives suck in florida, with a concealed weapons permit, you can carry any damn knife you want. switchblade, sword cane, dagger, doesn't matter.

 

[hso]

harmon rabb,

You don't need a CCW to carry a switchblade in FL. State law considers it a "common pocketknife".

 

[hso]

John,

There are no knives especially useful for taking on someone else armed with a knife.

Perhaps a bit of an overstatement since there are many knives especially made for taking on someone else armed with a knife. Not the best choice when stick, short sword, sword, spear of guns are available, sure, but they do exist and are highly developed for that purpose. The long daggers being the prime example.

 

[JShirley]

I didn't say that none have been designed for such a purpose.

 

[hso]

No, but there are plenty that are useful by comparison to the others that aren't designed for the purpose.

If I were using a knife against someone wielding a knife because that's what I had expediently at hand, there are some at my place that you've handled that are intended for that purpose and they would be far better than those you've handled here that are designed as tools instead of weapons. The stag Breed bowie comes immediately to mind vs the snakewood Galagher. Kim made that knife to be a fighter and put everything he knew about that purpose into it. Same for the one Gary made.

 

[glockdriver]

find yourself a Blackie Collins Ninja, small lightweight single edged dagger with an unsharpened false clip

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I didn't say that none have been designed for such a purpose.

I was under the impression that Bujinkan taught techniques to disarm opponents with knives

 

[JShirley]

hso, I will agree that some knives would be more useful than others for that purpose...just as none of them will be nearly as useful as a weapon that enables delivering force to that would-be attacker while keeping them at distance.

DD, that's true. What do these techniques (usually variants of gyaku-te waza) have to do with knives designed to combat other knives or this thread?

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

that's true. What do these techniques (usually variants of gyaku-te waza) have to do with knives designed to combat other knives or this thread?

I was also under the impression that those bujinkan techniques employed the use of the tanto mune to disarm the opponent.

 

[JShirley]

Okay? Let me try to put this succinctly: I have trained with some of the best martial artists in the Bujinkan, including Bud Malmstrom. Feel free to ask Bud if he would prefer to take on someone armed with a knife while only using a knife. (Since I've heard his take on this many times, you can trust me, or try to contact Bud through his site.) Kobudo systems teach a lot of techniques, including iado/battojutsu. If you found yourself "locked up" in a wrestling confrontation with an attacker, your knife might be useful, but it would make a lot more sense for you- in your 15th century Japanese battlefield gear- to just engage with your bow or spear before your adversary got within arm's reach of you. (The historical record shows this was the preference as well.)

Now, if you want to start a thread about using knives to take on knife-wielders, go ahead. But stop hijacking this thread.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I figured that you'd agree with super magic kung fu dis-arms.

I mean, that is all Bujinkan is, anyway. People playing ninja.

See ya

 

[hso]

just as none of them will be nearly as useful as a weapon that enables delivering force to that would-be attacker while keeping them at distance.

Absolutely agree! I'd much rather use a cane or sticks against someone with a knife. I've earned my lumps being the one with the knife against the guy with the stick and handed out the lumps when we switched roles in classes. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[AStone]

Sorry I've been away. Was out of town last weekend (I'm delighted to say that it was a nearly magical experience in the wood with a loved one), and swamped at work since getting back.

I'm behind reading, but will get caught up on Friday or Saturday.

From a quick scan, looks like an interesting discussion has been continuing.

Right now, if I had to make a choice, I'd go with a Kershaw military boot knife for starters (others on the list for when cash flow improves), though I'm still intrigued by the SOG Pentagon Mini.

 

[AStone]

I think I've pretty much decided on a SW boot knife for now.
Inexpensive at $20 or less, but I think it'll do for what I have in mind.
(It's not an edc, after all, but a back up. I've got better knives for edc.)

It has a 440C blade. In trying understand more of what that means,
I found this page on steels. It's the best summary I've found of the plethora of steels.

Any opinions about it ("it" being mainly the page)?

 

[Mp7]

i have a 440C knife branded by SW.

Good quality for lil $. Heat treatment was very good with mine.
Nice blade.

 

[7X57chilmau]

That faq is good. Joe seems to know his stuff (one of the sharpening faqs at the top of this forum is also by him, and is thorough and well presented).

440C is a good every-day steel for such a knife. Better than needed for a boot knife, which will never be called upon to hold a razor edge thru hard work... It's just a last ditch slasher/poker.... If heat treated well, it should be able to do that though...

J

 

[hso]

I'm surprised that they used 440C for the blade material instead of something less expensive and easier to heat treat.

 

[Slamfire]

Has anyone really tried carrying a fixed blade boot knife?

I tried over thirty years ago. Tried carrying a Morseth boot knife



I found a full length boot knife difficult to conceal, constantly prodding me in the side, I never attached it to a boot because I wore sneakers, and overall an inconvenient knife to carry concealed.

Instead of fighting dragons I used the knife to open boxes; it cut string wonderfully, but sheathing was troublesome.

I much prefer today’s lock blades. Light plastic handles, stainless blades, fold down to a short package, nice strong metal clips.

 

[xcgates]

I tried carrying one for a little while, and it wasn't too bad, with me wearing tall boots (think combat boots) and either loose cargo pants or jeans.

However, I did realize that I found my folding pocketknife much easier/convenient to use, and if I needed a knife, I'd still instinctively go for the one clipped in my pocket. I now have added a second knife clipped to the waist of my pants that I don't use just in case I really need that extra sharp blade, because my regular use one get used so much as a pry-bar/screwdriver it can no longer hold an edge.

 

[Mp7]

...hso, i´m greatly surprised by the blade quality of my SW Magnesium H.R.T,

for chinese crap, it´s pretty awesomely done.
Not good for a gift, but an excellent 15$ tool i ebayed.

 

[shockwave]

Hey now - my postman just dropped off an item for me...



Cold Steel Ti Lite 6". A nice compromise between a boot knife and a folder. The quality is outstanding - opened, there is zero play in the blade. The action is smooth and finishes with a nice "snick."

 

[AStone]

I found a full length boot knife difficult to conceal, constantly prodding me in the side,
I never attached it to a boot because I wore sneakers, and overall an inconvenient knife to carry concealed.

However, I did realize that I found my folding pocketknife much easier/convenient to use,
and if I needed a knife, I'd still instinctively go for the one clipped in my pocket.

I've been pondering those very things as I sort through this issue.

I, too, carry an edc folder (Benchmade Osborne) that's very handy.

Still, even though I can access and open it quickly, it's not a quick as a dagger might be, me thinks. Almost certainly, I would not carry a boot knife in my boot because I rarely wear boots, and when I do, they're not full sized combat boots, but mid-height work boots or hiking boots, and I can't really see anything inside them to be of comfort.

So, I'll need to find some other way to carry one, either on a lanyard on my neck,
a shoulder scabbard, or some kind of wrist scabbard are my top thoughts for now.

Still, I don't rule out a folder.

 

[hso]

I've carried both. You have to work out how to comfortably carry a fixed blade for yourself. The only way I've accomplished that is IWB at over the kidney or a little one in a neck sheath or hip pocket under a cover garment. Avoid baroque carry methods. Wrist carry isn't practical because a usable blade interferes with your day to day activities. Underarm carry can get your arm pinned to your chest as you're reaching for a knife. Some sort of centerline or waist carry is the most common because it is the most practical.

Yet, a folder is so convenient that I carry one of those instead of the faster/stronger fixed blade.

 

[AStone]

^ Well, then, let's broaden the discussion a bit to include folders that act as substitutes for daggers and boot knives.

Think about all the things you like in one of those, and suggest a good folder that meets those criteria.

How about Shockwaves Cold Steel Ti?

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to use my folder for SD. Not enough guard on it. I'm afraid my hand would slip right over it if I hit a bone.

Part of the reason I like the SW boot knife is that it has a bit more guard on it, that little flair, and of course a more serious grip than my folder.

Talk to me.

 

[hso]

Guard's important, but they're often done for style than function. Many very effective fighting knife designs lacked anything we'd call a guard and did very well. Most of what you see today is done out of habit/tradition based on preventing a blade from sliding down your blade to the hand. Even then, they tend to be more than as needed.

So, don't worry too much about a guard being intended to keep you off the blade since all you need is a enough to keep you on the handle.