Dead end designs.

[Slamfire]

We only see the pictures of the ones that made it into production. There has to be tens of thousands of firearm concepts that never made it past a prototype.
And there are odd ball designs that no one has ever heard about, one class are the pistols with annular grooved chambers.

The whole concept was to cut annular and/or helical grooves in barrel chambers to permit propellant gases to expand the walls of the fired case into these grooves, thereby causing resistance to extraction or case projection of the bolt.

Their purpose is to slow down the opening of the slide to enable the use of a relatively light slide and recoil spring, thus a lighter firearm. One pistol using this system seems to have been made in quantity: the Chinese Type 77 pistol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_77_pistol This pistol has an annular groove in the chamber. Firing results in a bulge in the cartridge case measuring approximately 8.58-8.59 mm in diameter. The re-sizing of this bulge in the process of extraction slows down the slide.



see what one goes for at auction: https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/64/3325/rare-chinese-model-77-semiautomatic-pistol

Another pistol the Chinese made with chamber retarding grooves was the Type 64

Are Chinese Type 64 pistols exported? If so, why is it a collectible ammunition in the United States?

In order to overcome these shortcomings, the 64-type has a spiral groove in the chamber, and the 77-type adds a drum-shaped annular groove at the rear of the chamber. The shell is deformed and embedded in the groove under the pressure of the chamber to increase the shell resistance. ,

I can think of more disadvantages to this system than advantages, which is perhaps why there are so few pistol types.

Another weird one from China, the silenced Type 64.

 

[tarosean]

I'm not sure why there aren't any roller-delayed pistols like the Heckler & Koch P9S. Everyone said it was a soft shooter and very accurate

Walmart mentality.. (cheaper, cheaper and cheaper)

If striker fired poly pistols were so bad then why does every pistol maker copy Glock’s designs and make their own versions?

Profitability.
With exceptions of the S&W Sigma and the cheap gen 3 ripoff’s sold now-a-days, they are not copies. Glock doesn’t have a Begmann action, FCU’s, rotating barrels, delayed or simple blowback. Just because it has a poly frame doesn’t make something a “copy”. If that were true, HK proved frames could be made of polymer well before Gaston even thought of it.

 

[Pat Riot]

I often wonder how many innovations have been stymied because of ego, jealousy, prejudice, etc. because someone didn’t want someone else to get ahead, show them up or cause them to do more work.
Then you have the monetary issue. Innovations that never made it because of the lack of funds.
Obviously, we will never know.

 

[lee n. field]

Hudson H9. Not sure if it was really a dead end design as much as it needed more development time and better management.

"Specialized". Solves, in a unique way, a problem that isn't really that much of a problem.

 

[Archie]

One reason the Luger design did not survive the civilian economy was the intricate manufacturing process and the sensitivity to contamination from the elements. Military contracts (based on taxes) do not consider 'economy' in the same sense as personal buyers. (No kidding?)
So anything intricate is at a disadvantage in terms of sales.
Reliability is paramount, even for non-defense arms. No one wants an arm that has to be cleared, tickled, coaxed and cajoled.
The Gyrojet was hampered by the projectile. Conventional firearms propel projectiles by the pressure of expanding gases. The Gyrojet launched rockets, rockets accelerate from the initial launching position. And the gyroscopic stabilization was not as efficient as should be. It is to be noted that rockets are used for larger targets (jet aircraft, tanks, oil storage, anti-aircraft sites, clown cars and other such.)
The VP70-Z was a submachine gun modified to fire semi-automatic only. As such, it was a pig.

So, the dead end designs are that that were too complicated (and expensive), not very functional, unsuited to the advertised purpose or just a pig (you decide that last).
However, like it or not, failures are valuable in finding out how NOT to do - make anything. How many automobiles were introduced and found lacking? (Stanley Steamer? Edsel?) Some things (the Nash brand automobile) ran the company out of business as they last and few ordered another.

Now here's the tricky part. Buyers to spend a bit more money on a good product and not on glitzy advertising. No matter how sexy the model in the advertisement.

 

[film495]

I'm more amazed by design elements that are basically the same as 100 or 150 years ago. Same stuff, works the same, 2 centuries later.

 

[JN01]

Semmerling LM4. Manually operated .45 ACP with a four round magazine.
Semmerling LM4: The Smallest Repeating .45ACP - YouTube

 

[JN01]

Boberg XR9S
The Smallest 9mm Handgun:Fatal Flaw The Boberg XR9 S 9mm - YouTube

 

[gobsauce]

I can see biometric digital "safeties," Identification Friend/ Foe, and electric priming becoming standard in the grim and not so distant future.
All of it remotely validated and wirelessly overridden by those in charge, of course.

It's very interesting you bring this up.

I'm an electrical engineering student, and have a few cents to toss.

Biometric security systems are very very interesting, however, the way we normally implement them into things that aren't phones are lacking. Not to mention that it adds another failure point. Imagine you're in a situation that calls for a firearm, but cannot use it because your hands got sweaty.

As for the Augmented Reality aspect, the F|~F identification, that's a ways out. I don't advocate for that.

Electrical priming? Imagine having a rifle where all you need is the barreled action, a trigger and a 9V battery. What you have then is a hair trigger and an incredibly light rifle. How much does the trigger/hammer assembly weigh on an AR? imagine how much lighter it would feel without any of the inner working of those assemblies? And for reloading, maybe we can make that into a cartridge system that no longer needs a primer at all, just powder and projectile. Feasible. I'd be interested.

And for your last remark...simple. Don't add a wireless feature.

But these are the ramblings of a humble electrical engineering student.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

It's very interesting you bring this up.

I'm an electrical engineering student, and have a few cents to toss.

Biometric security systems are very very interesting, however, the way we normally implement them into things that aren't phones are lacking. Not to mention that it adds another failure point. Imagine you're in a situation that calls for a firearm, but cannot use it because your hands got sweaty.

As for the Augmented Reality aspect, the F|~F identification, that's a ways out. I don't advocate for that.

Electrical priming? Imagine having a rifle where all you need is the barreled action, a trigger and a 9V battery. What you have then is a hair trigger and an incredibly light rifle. How much does the trigger/hammer assembly weigh on an AR? imagine how much lighter it would feel without any of the inner working of those assemblies? And for reloading, maybe we can make that into a cartridge system that no longer needs a primer at all, just powder and projectile. Feasible. I'd be interested.

And for your last remark...simple. Don't add a wireless feature.

But these are the ramblings of a humble electrical engineering student.

You misunderstand me. None of the things I listed are meant to make firearms better, more effective, or reliable- just more restrictable.
Just as telematics, push button start, driver assisst systems, smart cruise, automatic braking and most emmissions equipment dont actually improve a cars ability to go from point A to B more reliably or efficiently- but taken together form the basis of a total network for tracking and controlling the occupants whether they realize it or not- all in the name of "safety" and convenience.

The same pretexts will be used to contaminate firearms with new tech.
Ya know, for the children.

Now imagine the value of weapons validation systems to a regime such as China. If entire units of police or their military become deemed politically unreliable, sympathetic to protesters, or take part in any sort of coup- their weapons could be tracked and remotely disabled.

 

[Simple Shooter]

The first thing that comes to mind when I hear "dead end design" is the Colt All American. Colt's embarrassing early '90's attempt to enter the wonder 9 market featured a rotating barrel and roller bearing trigger, both of which contributed to the firearm's unreliability and poor accuracy. Plus, it was butt-ugly.

 

[gobsauce]

You misunderstand me. None of the things I listed are meant to make firearms better, more effective, or reliable- just more restrictable.
Just as telematics, push button start, driver assisst systems, smart cruise, automatic braking and most emmissions equipment dont actually improve a cars ability to go from point A to B more reliably or efficiently- but taken together form the basis of a total network for tracking and controlling the occupants whether they realize it or not- all in the name of "safety" and convenience.

The same pretexts will be used to contaminate firearms with new tech.
Ya know, for the children.

Now imagine the value of weapons validation systems to a regime such as China. If entire units of police or their military become deemed politically unreliable, sympathetic to protesters, or take part in any sort of coup- their weapons could be tracked and remotely disabled.

I see what you're saying, i misunderstood.

But not everything tracks you. My 2018 Ford Focus with the lane assist(i don't have any of that) doesn't track me, just as my mother's 2017 Nissan Altima with the blind spot sensors, etc doesn't track her. Just because it has fancy tech doesn't mean it's tracking you.

Similarly, just because my glock has a fancy screen with an ammo counter (it doesn't,don't even own a Glock) doesn't help the government restrict or track my gun.

My car has a Bluetooth system, that doesn't mean that it shares everything that I play. My car only has a Reciever,no transceiver or transmitter. As such, my car has only one network built into it, that's basically a GPIO /UART system. Can't be used to shut my car down.

As such, if your firearm simply doesn't have any network connectivity, it can't be hacked or anything of that nature, just physically exploited. Maybe I can use an inductor circuit to fry your biometric sensor, disable it, but I have to be there to mess with it, can't do it over the air.

I see what you're saying, politically speaking and all..i don't really have much to say, because it's possible they would do that.

But what I'm trying to get at, fancy tech doesn't mean it's bad for you. For example, your car doesn't need to track you, because your cell phone does that for you.

That's how Google Maps detects where traffic is slow: it calculates how fast/slow the cellphones on the road move.

 

[Jim Watson]

Electrical priming? Imagine having a rifle where all you need is the barreled action, a trigger and a 9V battery. What you have then is a hair trigger and an incredibly light rifle.

Not really. The regular mechanical trigger and striker is not that heavy relative to receiver, bolt, barrel, and stock.
And there have been electric ignition sporting arms.
Back in the 1960s Abercrombie and Fitch imported the Fusil Electrique from France. It required electric primers in otherwise standard shotgun shells. The receiver had electrodes instead of firing pins, a battery was under the buttplate, and the triggers were simple contacts.
Remington built the Etronx version of the Model 700 for electric primers. I think they still sell the primers, a search shows sources but no place I have ever heard of, which makes me wary in these days of scam sites.
The Kricotronic .22 just put a hard zap across the rim of regular .22 LR.

Not counting the various microswitch - solenoid triggers for conventional striker fired actions.

 

[gobsauce]

Not really. The regular mechanical trigger and striker is not that heavy relative to receiver, bolt, barrel, and stock.
And there have been electric ignition sporting arms.
Back in the 1960s Abercrombie and Fitch imported the Fusil Electrique from France. It required electric primers in otherwise standard shotgun shells. The receiver had electrodes instead of firing pins, a battery was under the buttplate, and the triggers were simple contacts.
Remington built the Etronx version of the Model 700 for electric primers. I think they still sell the primers, a search shows sources but no place I have ever heard of, which makes me wary in these days of scam sites.
The Kricotronic .22 just put a hard zap across the rim of regular .22 LR.

Not counting the various microswitch - solenoid triggers for conventional striker fired actions.

That's fair, I suppose I'm looking at it with rose colored glasses. i still think it's a wicked cool idea, but that's me.

 

[Jim Watson]

If the primers are really still being made, feel free to put that EE to work and build your own.