Decide, les baer, wilson combat, ?

[ericuda]

It's because folks who spend more expect fewer issues.

I expect the same for my 300 Taurus as I do any other gun I purchase so that statement has no bearing on my thoughts. Everything has it's little quirks.

Bigger money will not make me a better shooter for sure.

JTO your post is exactly on point. If you are biased and settle for what you do not desire you will never be happy. I see all the time the lb is recommended for a break in but your statement makes more sense and that is all that swayed me away. If it's just to make gun work out kinks that sits better for me as I won't shoot 1000 rounds in 2 years.

I feel kind of at a disadvantage as where I am I'll never handle and compare in person before purchasing.

My personal feeling is that if a Dan Wesson doesn't offer what I want, I'd be inclined to save up for a Stan Chen or Ned Christensen...both of whom are really nice people too; even when they knew I wasn't going to make a purchase

Very nice but way above my range.

 

[bc1023]

Bigger money will not make me a better shooter for sure.

I hear this often from folks that generally don’t shot higher end guns and it’s simply not true. While the gun will not improve your shooting fundamentals, it will absolutely help the shooter make the most of the skills they have. A mechanically accurate pistol with a great trigger and good ergonomics is much easier to shoot well.

Just the way it works

 

[jmorris]

If I wanted to drop another $2500 on a 1911, I find a used SVI before I picked up a new one of either choices in the OP.

 

[JTQ]

I feel kind of at a disadvantage as where I am I'll never handle and compare in person before purchasing.

If you're in NW Kansas, I suspect you're within a day's drive of both factories. Les Baer is in Iowa and Wilson is in Arkansas.

 

[Mosin77]

If you're in NW Kansas, I suspect you're within a day's drive of both factories. Les Baer is in Iowa and Wilson is in Arkansas.

This is a good point. We often bemoan that we don’t move in the circles where we might see these in everyday life, but if you’re planning on spending a few thousand on a gun, a few hundred on a road trip or airline ticket isn’t a crazy proposition.

Personally I’ve never handled a Baer. I have handled several Wilsons, and I will say they are very nice guns. BUT, and this is going to sound like heresy and sacrilege, they didn’t wow me. My Springfield shoots great and is tight enough (very tight compared to most GI 1911s) but loose compared to these high grade guns. But overall I don’t feel like my lowly $600 1911 is grossly inferior to the custom guns in finish or performance. If I were in love with the 1911 platform and wanted the best competition or target 1911 I could get, I’d be in the market for one. I only mention this because I think we often forget the context of these guns and expect to hold them and see some kind of earth-shattering quality difference. It’s there, but it’s an incremental, mostly internal and imperceptible upgrade, the true difference lies in the performance. We live in an era where even $300 Taurus or Tisas guns have clean, bordering on flawless at times, machining.

 

[JTQ]

...and this is going to sound like heresy ...

I don't own any high end 1911's, but the argument I always make for the high end 1911 is they have better parts, and are put together by more skilled personnel.

The combination of better parts installed by more competent craftsmen/women, is probably a better recipe for success than the economy parts and assembly line labor. In addition, while not all semi-custom 1911's are the same, places like Wilson and Nighthawk have outstanding customer service reputations, and an upgrade, modification, or repair can typically be accomplished in a short period of time.

Certainly there are folks that get their 1911 replacement parts from RIA, Tisas, or Taurus, but usually when folks are replacing a 1911 part, they are buying a part from Wilson, or Brown, or EGW, etc., because they are better parts.

The advantage for these more expensive guns with better parts installed by more skilled workers, probably doesn't come into focus until you've fired 10's of thousands of rounds through your 1911. At that point your high end 1911 is probably still chugging along as good as the day you bought it, while the 1911 with the lesser parts and less skilled labor may be on its' last leg.

If folks are only going to shoot a couple of thousand rounds through their 1911 or if you are your own gunsmith, there may not be an advantage to the high end gun, but for some folks, there is value in those high end 1911's.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Personally I’ve never handled a Baer. I have handled several Wilsons, and I will say they are very nice guns. BUT, and this is going to sound like heresy and sacrilege, they didn’t wow me. My Springfield shoots great and is tight enough (very tight compared to most GI 1911s) but loose compared to these high grade guns. But overall I don’t feel like my lowly $600 1911 is grossly inferior to the custom guns in finish or performance.

There is nothing wrong with not being able to feel or see the difference. It is an educational process to appreciate the workmanship that goes into higher end 1911s. I've handled and shot a number of Baer and Wilson 1911, but even when I first picked them up at a SHOT Show the differences were obvious...and unless you're talking about a top level Wilson, it doesn't come close to comparing with a Chen or Christensen.

I've shot a number of Filipino 1911s and would rate them near the top of the imported ones. But when you look closely or shoot them much, you can tell there is something just different about the function...more like a Colt or Kimber. Having said that, I really like the Rock Island Armory 1911 lineup as the basis of a working 1911...their building the Spartan for STI really upped their build quality

I think we often forget the context of these guns and expect to hold them and see some kind of earth-shattering quality difference. It’s there, but it’s an incremental, mostly internal and imperceptible upgrade, the true difference lies in the performance.

Maybe not just incremental. Sometimes it is just simple things like adding the bevel to the slide stop so that it is easily press back into the frame during assembly without incurring an "idiot mark", not staking the ejector in place, not blending the beavertail grip safety with the frame to avoid pinching, or contouring the right side paddle of an ambidextrous thumb safety to not beat on your trigger finger knuckle...okay, the last is a bit of a custom feature

 

[Resist Evil]

I've often been tempted by Les Baer's products, but never pulled the trigger on one when I was looking for something fancier than regular production 1911s. I enjoy the idea of things being well-made, crafted. Those things are generally more expensive than those things built on a production line.

Luke Volkmann used to work for Ed Brown, but wanted to go out on his own and off the production line. His stuff is not cheap. I bought one of his about 14 yrs ago just as he transitioned to the back of a gun store on Colfax Ave in Lakewood (near Denver) where we took delivery of my wife's Nighthawk Custom and where we met him.

I have had perfectly serviceable 1911-types in many bbl lengths of Springfield, ParaOrdnance, and Colt's, but pride of ownership about a finely-made piece of machinery is enjoyable when I can afford it. Whatever the OP chooses will make him happy about his purchase.

 

[ericuda]

If you're in NW Kansas, I suspect you're within a day's drive of both factories. Les Baer is in Iowa and Wilson is in

Now that is a fantastic idea. Do those folks provide hands on tours if a guy just shows up.

 

[brontodon]

I have an issue with any 1911 that requires X amount of ammo to be shot in order to break the pistol in.

I would agree with this. You'd think that a premium product would be working properly right out of the box.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I would agree with this. You'd think that a premium product would be working properly right out of the box.

If the buyer's expectation is a gun that locks up tighter than a bank vault, right out of the box, then a break-in will be required.

As mentioned in this thread, Les Baer will build a 1911 that will not require a break-in if that is what the buyer wants.

 

[Jimfern]

I have a Baer but not a Wilson. I like the Baer very much. I had to modify my Smith & Alexander mag guide to fit my TRS and I do notice that it has wider grips than my Colt, Norinco and Detonics. It shoots great and is still super tight. I have not had any problems with magazines but I haven't with my other 1911s either.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You'd think that a premium product would be working properly right out of the box.

It depends on how you define Premium. There are many knowledgeable folks who would not define any semi-custom 1911 in that way

 

[ilmonster]

I have a Baer PII I purchased used a few years ago. Had only 150 rounds down the pipe. Now has over 2K rounds through it. I have to agree with everything Tark has said. They are great guns. I shoot almost entirely handloaded 200 LSWC's through it and it functions great. Is a Baer heads and shoulders better compared to the competitors, no. Are some others drastically better? I'd say also no. Depends what you're looking for and what you're wanting to spend. No bad choices at these price points. Super happy with my "used" Baer! (and great hand checkering!! Looking at you, Tark )

p.s. I have shot, but not owned an Ed Brown and a Wilson. Also great 1911's

 

[gun'sRgood]

I have multiples of Wilson, Nighthawk, and Brown. Only one Guncrafter, but plan to get another.

There is a reason I only have ONE Baer. They are not as refined. And their frames are out of spec. Lots of visible tool marks inside.

If you look down inside my frame through the top at the mag well, you can see where the Dremel got away from them and they didn’t even attempt to polish it out.

I have added Chen SI magwells to numerous different makes without issue, just drop right in. It took a few hours of hand fitting on my Baer.

Now, shooting wise? The Baer performs fantastic, no complaints. I love the performance.

Now talk about break in. Baers are hard fit. Meaning everything is not smoothed out completely. They recommend 500 rounds to break it in and don’t take it down to clean until you put at least 500 rounds through it; because they are tighter than a politician’s lips when it comes to truth.

The other semis are ready to go.

For spending that kind of money on a semi custom, pride of ownership and admiration of the craftsmanship is part of it for me. The Baer falls short in that department. However, the other guys charge significantly more. If you can only afford the Baer, get it and enjoy it. But don’t expect a Lexus for the price of a Lincoln.

You are spot on. When the discussion comes around to your collection of Wilson, Nighthawk and such, It's a matter of preference. Which is better, sunrise or sunset? To add anything, I guess I'd say the cost of the two suggests a similar conclusion. I'd bet the Wilson is ~30% more $?

 

[vanfunk]

Nothing against ANY pistols here thus far. Nevertheless, my vote is for Nighthawk. Mine’s literally perfect.

 

[orionengnr]

I have owned probably 25 1911s in the last 35 years or so.
Never owned a Wilson, Nighthawk, etc., but lucked across a lightly-used Baer around 2006 at a gun show for like $1100 (IIRC).

It is an alloy-framed, Commander-sized, not sure if I ever knew the exact model. The frame was Cera-Koted black, and there was minimal loss of the coating on the frame rails. Given the snug slide-to-frame fit, the small amount of coating loss tells me there were not too many rounds through it.

It was snug, but not unreasonably so. Actually, the tightest part was removing the barrel bushing--required a wrench, where most of my 1911s can be removed by hand.

My only disappointment was it would not "slingshot"...slide would not travel rearward "quite far enough" to release the slide lock. Doing some research, I found that this was not limited to my gun, but is apparently an issue with LB 1911s, at least those in Commander size....had something to do with using a modified Government frame. Took it to my favorite 1911-smith (Ken Crawley, if you are interested) and he did some magic, and it slingshots with the best of them. I think it cost about $100--money well spent.

To this day, it remains one of my favorite 1911s.

For what it's worth, I also own a Dan Wesson CBOB (stainless Commander Bob-Tail) in 10mm, bought used around Thanksgiving 2007. That one had some teething issues as well--smashed the mouths of brass, rendering the brass worthless. Disturbing, since 10mm is a reloader's cartridge, and destroyed cases are a personal affront to a reloader....

Ken Crawley to the rescue again. Although I don't shoot nearly as much 10mm as I do .45acp, that DW isn't going anywhere.

Bottom line...it is a great time to be a 1911 enthusiast. There are many great options out there. Do your homework, look around and enjoy the process.

Wish you were local to me--I would be happy to let you try both of mine, and any other 1911 I own. Others may make a similar offer--THR people are among the best around.

Visiting LB and Wilson (possibly others) sounds like awesome advice. Once I retire (a year from now) I may have to follow that advice.

Please let us know what you decide, and how it works out.

BTW, 1911forum.com and M1911.org are both good sites, and each has manufacturer-specific sub-fora, so you can spend many hours reading about Baer, DW, Wilson and pretty much any 1911 maker your heart desires.

Hope this helps.
Best, Rich in TX