hawg
Member
My caliber of choice is 30-06. It has served me well for over 50 years. I've used others tho. 44-40, 45-70, .50 and .54 round balls and .58 minies among them. The smallest bullet I've used was a .257 WM with a 110 grain bullet.
Deer Hunting, Heavy and slow or light and fast bullets?
- Thread starter beeenbag
- Start date
Savage30L
Member
Come to think of it, the smallest projectile I've used to shoot a deer was a 125-grain JSP in a 7.62 X 39. (It failed to expand, and produced a .30 caliber pass-through wound. The fellow who had invited me to hunt with him did an absolutely amazing job of following a very sparse blood trail, in failing light in a light rain; I would never have found that deer without him). On the other hand I've killed at least 2 dozen with a shotgun, using either slugs or buckshot. A slug may not put it down on the spot, but you'll have a good blood trail to follow.
My favorite deer load is a 3" magnum load of #1 buck. I've shot several deer (and a wild hog) with that load at ranges of around 15 yards; all dropped dead in their tracks. 24 pellets create a lot of wound channels.
My favorite deer load is a 3" magnum load of #1 buck. I've shot several deer (and a wild hog) with that load at ranges of around 15 yards; all dropped dead in their tracks. 24 pellets create a lot of wound channels.
Anchorite
Member
Placement, placement, placement.
It’s the Indian, not the arrow.
It’s the Indian, not the arrow.
marksman13
Member
In short, it doesn’t matter. I’ve killed deer and pigs with 22LR, 17 HMR, 223, 243, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 257 Weatherby Mag, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55, 6.8 SPC, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm WSM, 300 BLK, 308, 30-06, 300 Win Mag and 45-70 and I’m sure a few more that I’m forgetting. That’s spanning 150-200 Mississippi white tails and literally hundreds of pigs (probably nearer to a thousand).
The only difference that I can tell to how animals react at the shot is with the 257 WM and 300 WM. Hit a deer in the shoulder or just behind it with one of those and it’s like an instant transport to the after-life. Light switch goes off. Bang! Flop! Maybe it’s the velocity. Maybe it’s just the small sample size of deer I’ve shot with those two. I’ve seen 223 and 308 do the same. Heck, I guess I’ve seen about all of them do the same at some point. Guess I’m right back to the cartridge doesn’t matter, though I’d never make the rimfires my first choice, especially a 17 HMR. That was a dumb kid decision.
The only difference that I can tell to how animals react at the shot is with the 257 WM and 300 WM. Hit a deer in the shoulder or just behind it with one of those and it’s like an instant transport to the after-life. Light switch goes off. Bang! Flop! Maybe it’s the velocity. Maybe it’s just the small sample size of deer I’ve shot with those two. I’ve seen 223 and 308 do the same. Heck, I guess I’ve seen about all of them do the same at some point. Guess I’m right back to the cartridge doesn’t matter, though I’d never make the rimfires my first choice, especially a 17 HMR. That was a dumb kid decision.
FL-NC
Member
I like 6.5 CM and 243 because they both kill deer just fine and I don't see a need to subject myself to excess recoil on something as easy to kill and nonthreatening to my safety as a deer. I would also welcome opportunities to shoot at deer further than 100 yards, and I would do it with that 6.5 CM.
Chuck R.
Member
For me, it depends.
IF I'm reasonably sure the shot will be say 75yds and under; woods, tree stands, drives, etc, then I prefer slower and heavier. Sometimes under those circumstances I can't guarantee a double lung shot, and I don't like putting HV rounds into shoulders when the distance is close.
For varying distance/terrain I prefer "lightish" and fast.
I never look at it as either being more or less effective, just where I might end up putting the bullet.
IF I'm reasonably sure the shot will be say 75yds and under; woods, tree stands, drives, etc, then I prefer slower and heavier. Sometimes under those circumstances I can't guarantee a double lung shot, and I don't like putting HV rounds into shoulders when the distance is close.
For varying distance/terrain I prefer "lightish" and fast.
I never look at it as either being more or less effective, just where I might end up putting the bullet.
Random 8
Member
I prefer somewhere in the middle. The closest analogy I have to your 45-70 are several deer I've killed with shotgun slugs...meh. I got dead deer, but I also got relatively long blood trails with good hits.
I also used to hot-rod my .280 Rem, and have been around and helped butcher many deer shot with .270/130s and the .243 and 6mm Rem with 100 and 80 gr bullets respectively. Also a lot of .30-06/150s. They certainly result in dead deer and a lot of bang flops. They also result in a lot of dead deer meat and waste at the butchering table, and with the wrong bullet can result in lead/jacket fragments far off the impact vector that sneak by the watchful eye of the holder of the trim knife.
I believe the whitetail loading was perfected sometime in the 1920's with the .300 Savage and a 150 grain cup and core soft point. A heavier, more stoutly constructed bullet at higher velocity can mimic the results on game, and the handloader can turn most any .30 caliber into a Savage with careful load selection. The recoil is mild, I find it more of a gentle push than the sharp jolt of high velocity cartridges including the famed low-recoil .243. I get good damage, but not excessive. A hit anywhere near CNS or through a shoulder will get you a bang-flop, a good double lunger, or even a less than perfect body cavity shot will usually get you a pass-through and a decent blood trail.
As the range gets long, I still hot-rod the .280 a bit, but by 200 or more yards, it's hitting a lot more sedately.
I also used to hot-rod my .280 Rem, and have been around and helped butcher many deer shot with .270/130s and the .243 and 6mm Rem with 100 and 80 gr bullets respectively. Also a lot of .30-06/150s. They certainly result in dead deer and a lot of bang flops. They also result in a lot of dead deer meat and waste at the butchering table, and with the wrong bullet can result in lead/jacket fragments far off the impact vector that sneak by the watchful eye of the holder of the trim knife.
I believe the whitetail loading was perfected sometime in the 1920's with the .300 Savage and a 150 grain cup and core soft point. A heavier, more stoutly constructed bullet at higher velocity can mimic the results on game, and the handloader can turn most any .30 caliber into a Savage with careful load selection. The recoil is mild, I find it more of a gentle push than the sharp jolt of high velocity cartridges including the famed low-recoil .243. I get good damage, but not excessive. A hit anywhere near CNS or through a shoulder will get you a bang-flop, a good double lunger, or even a less than perfect body cavity shot will usually get you a pass-through and a decent blood trail.
As the range gets long, I still hot-rod the .280 a bit, but by 200 or more yards, it's hitting a lot more sedately.
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NMachine
Member
I prefer a medium velocity cartridge with a heavy bullet. Sure, a light fast bullet of proper construction placed in the vitals will work and has worked for me. I sometimes hunt small (40-80 acres) tracts of private land. You can bet that if your shot deer crosses into adjoining property, you lost your deer to another hunter. A longer blood trail can also end badly if a deer makes it into some real thick brush. I have lost a deer shot with a well placed .243. The deer was going to die and the blood trail was substantial. The problem was the buck made across the fence to another property and was taken by another hunter. I lost a buck in a similar way on a 30 yd shot with a 165 grain going 2950 from a .30-06. The bullet came apart on impact and failed to reach the vitals. I was glad to hear the report of the rifle coming from the neighbors property after that buck crawled through the brush however.
I switch over to using mostly .35 caliber rifles. My Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Rem has always dropped deer more effectively than it’s ballistics charts say it should. My .35 Whelen punches through anything and doesn’t destroy meat the way the light calibers do. So I have become a true believer in 180-250 grain bullets leaving the muzzle from 2500-2800 fps.
I switch over to using mostly .35 caliber rifles. My Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Rem has always dropped deer more effectively than it’s ballistics charts say it should. My .35 Whelen punches through anything and doesn’t destroy meat the way the light calibers do. So I have become a true believer in 180-250 grain bullets leaving the muzzle from 2500-2800 fps.
tws3b2
Member
I've always used 30-06 150-180gr. If it's in the right place it's not going to make that much difference. The rule should be One shot. Any reason you can't do that maybe you shouldn't try.
Atavar
Member
There was an old thread on this forum by a Canadian tribal member who harvested hundreds of Caibou with .22lr.
tws3b2
Member
In the states I've hunted using a 22lr deer hunting would get you a long ride in the GW truck, a very large fine to pay and the loss of a perfectly good 22lr. And rightly so.
JFrank
Member
My good ol 30-30 doesn’t ruin meat, whereas the SIL blows half the deer apart with 270 wsm
WisBorn
Contributing Member
I have used 45-70 & 30-30 in fast handling lever action open sight rifles. I like these types of rifles and the cartridges. They work well in the woods where a long shot is not likely.
I have also used 7rm, 300wm, and 300wsm they shine were longer shots are more common. The addition energy and flatter trajectory is nice.
I like the 308win and 30-06 for all around rifles.
It would be hard to find a better whitetail trio than a 30-30, 308win, and 300WM.
You could also use a 45-70, 7mm-08, and 6.5prc.
Heck buy one of each for testing purposes....
THR enablers-enable
I have also used 7rm, 300wm, and 300wsm they shine were longer shots are more common. The addition energy and flatter trajectory is nice.
I like the 308win and 30-06 for all around rifles.
It would be hard to find a better whitetail trio than a 30-30, 308win, and 300WM.
You could also use a 45-70, 7mm-08, and 6.5prc.
Heck buy one of each for testing purposes....
THR enablers-enable
dobedo
Member
After hunting with a 45/70 for 40 years or so my new favorite is the .500 S&W magnum carbine and revolver. I have shot about 150 yards with each caliber and the .500 has one heck of knock down power. Especially when loaded with 350 grain bullets and 43 grains of H110. The 45/70 does a great job however, when a .500 hits a deer, it knocks them right off their feet. For bear I have used 500 grain bullets and the .500 grain loaded with 33 grains of H110 is no joke just one and done.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
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I’ve said frequently here and elsewhere - if I need more than 100-140grn of bullet over more than 30-40grn powder at 2600-3000fps to kill deer, I’m probably doing something I really ought not be doing.
So for me, between light and fast and heavy and slow, I want the light, fast bullet. I’ve killed literally hundreds of deer in over half of the states in our Union with cartridges slated as everything from “under powered” to “extremely excessive,” and for an ideal class of whitetail hunting cartridges, the 6 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 243win, 6.5 creed, 260rem, 7-08, 6 BR, and their ilk are perfect.
I LIKE hunting with 44mag, 454 Casull, or 45-70 for the fun of doing something different, but they’re NOT better for the task. I LIKE hunting with my old .30-06, but it’s NOT better for the task. I LIKE taking my 300wm after up-mountain mulies, but it’s NOT actually better for the task - I just want to be able to smack the piss out of them at ranges at which most folks would balk.
So for me, between light and fast and heavy and slow, I want the light, fast bullet. I’ve killed literally hundreds of deer in over half of the states in our Union with cartridges slated as everything from “under powered” to “extremely excessive,” and for an ideal class of whitetail hunting cartridges, the 6 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 243win, 6.5 creed, 260rem, 7-08, 6 BR, and their ilk are perfect.
I LIKE hunting with 44mag, 454 Casull, or 45-70 for the fun of doing something different, but they’re NOT better for the task. I LIKE hunting with my old .30-06, but it’s NOT better for the task. I LIKE taking my 300wm after up-mountain mulies, but it’s NOT actually better for the task - I just want to be able to smack the piss out of them at ranges at which most folks would balk.
For more than half a century my go to has always been the 30-06. I think it is because it was the rifle I used when I was 8 or 9 was on my first deer hunt that my father had borrowed. I remember that day on my first kill. I remember shaking uncontrollably as I was aiming at the deer. Saying to myself what dad always said squeeeeeeze slowly. I did than I remembered how blue the sky was. Don't know what bullet weight it was other than 30-06.
Ever since I bought my first hunting rifle a 30-06 followed by the venerable 30-30. As a young kid I wanted velocity and my first 12 pointer was taken with a 125 grain bullet at around 85 yards, man it devastated that shoulder and damaged a lot of meat. A few years later my philosophy changed and used 150 grainers for 200 yards and closer shots and I would carry an extra magazine with 165 grainers just in case it was a further shot. A couple of decades later and a tiny bit wiser I simply stuck with 165 grainers simply because it was what my rifle shot best with velocities ranging between 2750 to 2800 feet and it has always been Remington cor-lokt.
Ever since I bought my first hunting rifle a 30-06 followed by the venerable 30-30. As a young kid I wanted velocity and my first 12 pointer was taken with a 125 grain bullet at around 85 yards, man it devastated that shoulder and damaged a lot of meat. A few years later my philosophy changed and used 150 grainers for 200 yards and closer shots and I would carry an extra magazine with 165 grainers just in case it was a further shot. A couple of decades later and a tiny bit wiser I simply stuck with 165 grainers simply because it was what my rifle shot best with velocities ranging between 2750 to 2800 feet and it has always been Remington cor-lokt.
Ranger99
Member
^ ^ ^ ^ JMHO ^ ^ ^ ^
( sort of sorry for cherry picking
from the comment )
When I started hunting in the 70's,
all the magazines were raving about
bullet expansion and how important
it was to have the picture perfect
mushroomed bullet just under the
hide on the off side.
IMO if I can destroy the pumpkin/
pump house/ heart-lungs, I'll have
my animal, no doubt no question.
Without blood to the brain, they're
toast. When I started serious bow
hunting, it was an epiphany. That
a stick with a razor on the scary end
could make a grown deer limp as
a dishrag was astounding to me.
After the first one, my old "obsolete "
firearms seemed like a death raygun
shooting lightning bolts to me.
Like Charles Morse said, what one
man can do another can do
md7
Member
My kids are 4-0 vs whitetail with a 243 Winchester and 95 gr bullets. This includes an impressive 9 pointer taken by my youngest.
I’ve used a 270 Win and 130 gr corelokt to good effect on whitetail for almost 30 years now. Distances ranging from 20 yards out to nearly 300. Honestly couldn’t tell you how many that combo has efficiently taken in that time span.
I’ve recently acquired a 308 win. Nice to have an all weather beater and to try something different.
My expectation is that when I put one in the kill zone it will do as well as any of the others.
My shots are inside of 300 yards mostly, and I’m after good placement. All the aforementioned calibers should work for me assuming it’s properly placed.
I’ve used a 270 Win and 130 gr corelokt to good effect on whitetail for almost 30 years now. Distances ranging from 20 yards out to nearly 300. Honestly couldn’t tell you how many that combo has efficiently taken in that time span.
I’ve recently acquired a 308 win. Nice to have an all weather beater and to try something different.
My expectation is that when I put one in the kill zone it will do as well as any of the others.
My shots are inside of 300 yards mostly, and I’m after good placement. All the aforementioned calibers should work for me assuming it’s properly placed.
