Department store security authority

[V4Vendetta]

I didn't read the whole topic but I want to say this as a customer. Everytime the alarm goes off as I walk out the store, I keep on going. I know I didn't steal anything so I don't worry about it. I've done this countless times so I know it works for me.

As a retailer however, I want to say this. I had a shoplifter a while back. He tried to sneak a $9.00 item past us in his coat. My mom caught him & got back the item. He admitted that he stole it & my dad let him go on the condition that he never come in the store again. I told my folks that under North Carolina law, we couldn't hold him until the cops arrived legally. My parents didn't believe me since the folks at my mom's other job do it all the time to thieves. We asked a deputy later & he said that the only thing we could do was get the license number off their vehicle.

I believe that if a store catches you stealing from them, they should be able to take everything you have on you away* & let you walk home nude. That would show them.

I also feel however that if a store detains you even after you prove that you paid for the items, you get $10,000.00 by the employees who detained you.

*Including but not limited to :Clothes, watches, money, weapons & shoes.

 

[rick_reno]

If they detain you, go to your "happy place" until it's over.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Rick:

My happy place is the line at my local range....

I wonder....

Regards,

 

[brufener]

Here in OH, unless I misunderstood the law (old rent-a-cop), you have to try to leave the store to be a shoplifter.

That is the law everywhere - it comes down to the two parts of a crime, actual commiting the crime (removing the merchandise) and having the intent to do the crime.

If you haven't left the store yet, the store will have a hard time proving that you acutally stole (i.e. removed from their possession) the merchandise. It is also tricky on the intent side, because the person will say they intended to pay for it. Since they haven't passed the cash register yet, it is pretty hard to prove they didn't intend to.

 

[tulsamal]

Way back on page one (laugh) there was this:

security guards are not sworn (unless he is an off duty police or peace officer). A security guard can make a citizens arrest is he believes that you committed a crime and you in fact committed the crime. That means if he does a citizens arrest and you didn't commit a crime he and the store are open to major liability.

I've been through OK Security Guard classes and that's exactly right. If I'm acting as a security guard I have the same powers of arrest as a private citizen. So I CAN stop somebody and detain them. BUT I better end up being right.

I've thought about being stopped at Wal-Mart for one reason or another and decided long ago that any effort to actually hold and search me would result in my immediate call for the police. Not rude or screaming or threatening. Just telling them that I'm not willing to submit to a search of my person without a police officer being present first. I _sure_ don't want some Wal-Mart employee trying to safely handle a gun off my person. And I don't want to see the rabbit in the headlights look on their face when they discover that gun and think they have caught some lunatic bad guy.

Gregg

 

[Meplat]

I'm with HankB as a matter of practice.

Transfer of ownership of goods occurs at the point of sale. In other words, when I give them my money, the merchandise becomes my property.

Bingo.

I am not required to prove that I paid for my purchases as a precondition to exercising my freedom to leave their establishment. IF an employee has real probable cause to believe that I've stolen something, then they can exercise whatever lawful authority the local jurisdiction provides for. By "real probable cause" I mean an actual observation of me concealing merchandise. Failure of their employees/equipment to deactivate anti-theft tags is not my problem. Store employees going through my pockets or otherwise searching my person just isn't gonna happen. I've had this happen a couple of times and just kept on walking and ignored store personnel. They can record my license # and call 911 if they want. Once an old guy @ WalMart just grabbed my cart without comment when the thing beeped and jerked it over to the corner of the foyer before he started rifling thru our bags. He got fired on the spot and I got a $250 gift card with abject apologies from the mgr.

I have had exactly ONE problem with the local Wally World and their silly assed "security sensors". Was a slow day, checker was standing idly by and watching me check out and pay for my items. As I walked out, that freakin' recorded voice demanded I stop where I was at. Ignored it, walked on through the doors, got clear of the device, and waited on the outside of the door for the red faced employee to come out and go all authoritative on me. Looked at him, pulled my wallet, showed him the card that I have to show in airports to keep them from running me through a metal detector or using a wand on me, and told him that 1: He had WATCHED me purchase my items, 2: He saw that at least nine out of ten alarms sounded by that system every day are false alarms, and 3: That if I stayed in that vestibule and the magnetic sensors were to cause the internal defibrillator I had implanted in my chest to wack my ass with a 700 volt charge wired directly to my heart muscle because HE insisted I stand in an area that I am supposed to get through as quickly as possible, that he would be working for me the next week. I also explained to him that I was NOT a nice boss to have. By the time the exchance was over with, the manager was on the fringe, not commenting, just watching. I then turned an left. I have been there several times since then, and not once has anyone tried to stop me again for a false positive at the entrance.