Department store security authority

[LiquidTension]

I used to work at Best Buy and they told us that if a confirmed shoplifter tried to leave the store, LP or another employee could stand in front of them to block the way out but they could under no circumstances lay a hand on them. Our main problem was that we had some professional shoplifters that came through for a while and they knew the one area of the store that wasn't covered by cameras. One of the isles in the video department had no surveillance, so they'd take stuff to that isle, load it up in a box for a 20" tv, reseal the box, and take it to the register with several hundred dollars worth of stuff in it. Obviously there were more than one of them, since the sales guys had to be distracted long enough to unpack a tv and hide it somewhere (usually behind some other boxes on a bottom shelf). We'd find out about it at closing time when the department was "fronted and faced." Security tags weren't an issue, because they would leave the packaging behind and just take the product (DVD players, sound cards, video cards, etc.).

Apparently an ex-employee was involved because of the knowledge of the surveillance coverage. The head LP guy put up his own camera and didn't tell anyone where it was, and I think they caught the people. Shoplifting is a big problem, so much that if the store came in under the "shrink" budget, employees would get a bonus.

I usually cooperate with the door people if they check the receipt, and I've never had to wait in a long line - probably because I don't go to big stores during busy times. If I set off the alarm, I'll look back at the door person but they always wave me on. I've never been confronted in a hostile manner by any door person, but it wouldn't be in their best interests because I can raise my voice very loud and let the whole store know what I think of their insinuation I'm never in a big enough hurry to blow past the door people, so I let them do their job. Respect is a two way street, you know.

One thing that does irk me is the "Prepay Only" garbage at some gas stations. Yeah, I understand that they're trying to protect their profit, but I don't do business with the stations that say, "you have to pay us first because we think you're a thief."

 

[Edmond]

Years ago, I worked for Home Depot and saw the same thing with the box stuffing. I was up front talking to a very attractive cashier and a man came up with a big box. It was custom for HD to open the box because they knew people were stuffing the boxes. She opened the box (it was for a cheap mop bucket) and pulled out very expensive saw blades and some expensive electrical stuff. She just said, "I don't want to forget to ring these." She said it in a regular voice and he said, "Oh, I don't want that stuff." He paid for the mop bucket and left, never saw him again. She reported the incident but I don't know what happened with it.

 

[why_me]

One thing that does irk me is the "Prepay Only" garbage at some gas stations. Yeah, I understand that they're trying to protect their profit, but I don't do business with the stations that say, "you have to pay us first because we think you're a thief."

The only problem i ahve with pre pay is the pump slowing down like a dollar before the end. Then it takes more than a minute to get the last dollar of gas you paid for.

No biggy when it isnt cold as heck out

 

[Sean85746]

One thing is for sure...we all are passionate about our views! That is a good thing though, because when we stop being passionate about our beliefs...we just put on our wool suits and let shepherds lead us.

I am just glad we can all agree to disagree, and go on about our day.

 

[DT Guy]

There are a number of major retail stores that could DOUBLE (yep, +100%) their net profit if they eliminated shrinkage altogether.

We ALL pay for that.


Larry

 

[Edmond]

Kind of off topic but if they want to reduce shrink, increase employee morale. Treat the employees like crap, they'll slowly treat your company like crap.

 

[Jay Kominek]

There are a number of major retail stores that could DOUBLE (yep, +100%) their net profit if they eliminated shrinkage altogether.

We ALL pay for that.

Yes, but certainly none of us here are causing it. Really, we're saving the stores money by not having them search us. They can spend more time on everyone else, that way!

 

[Intune]

I am just glad we can all agree to disagree, and go on about our day.

I like that Mr. Sean 8... It's a good point and says alot about the folks who make up this website. There are people who have an opinion diametrically opposed to mine on this site and we'll go back and forth over it but there is no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't enjoy discussing same with them over a mug of brew and consider myself in good company. 'Tis a good thing.

 

[extremefishin00]

Sindawe,

*Leaping in front of the firing lane, holding my badge* "Excuse me sir! I can't allow you to shoot at this target. Move along please"

carebear,

No Handi-rifle unfortunately. They only issue us lousy MP-5's. Well those, and those nifty shoes that you can climb walls with

Sean8, I totally agree with you. There is no reason for someone in loss prevention to even touch you unless they have evidence of you shoplifting, and you're about to be apprehended or they're helping you up after a fall.

RileyMC,

I think you hit the nail on the head..we're pretty much a physical presence to the people coming in the store. Thankfully I do make more than minimum wage though.

Chris

 

[itgoesboom]

I love the way it works here in Oregon.

Unless they have an employee or a video tape that shows you taking an item and not paying for it, they can not detain you at all. Including to check a receipt.

They have to have 100%, continous survalience of you from taking the item to walking out the door before they can detain you.

There was a lawsuit a couple years ago where someone won over $100,000 because of this.

I have even talked to people at Fry's electronics (they have a reciept check station at the door), and they admit that they can't stop someone walking out if they don't want to show the receipt. They can only ask to see it, it has to be voluntary on the part of the customer.

From what I can see though, this doesn't apply to companys that you have to be a part of a club or organization, or be a member of.

If someone ever wants to detain me, they can feel free to do so. I will request that any search be done by a LEO, and when they find out that I am not shoplifting anything, I will call the same lawfirm that won the $100,000+ judgement the last time.

I.G.B.

 

[DRZinn]

They were checking receipts at the 99 Cent Store today!


why_me: Just another thing to hate about California - they're all prepay.

 

[why_me]

Do they make you wait for the last dollar?
I think it is a conspiracy for people in a hurry to just hang the nozzle up and not get x amount of cents gas. I say that cause some times i have taken off waitng for that last 25 cents worth

 

[Edmond]

I've seen some stations that have you pay after dark but those are in the city.

But around here in suburbia, they trust you. I always pay with my card anyway because I get 1.5% cash back. Not much but it's better than nothing.

 

[Nehemiah Scudder]

I don't think I've ever seen a gas station where it's not pre-pay after dark.

But, I almost always use the card anyways because it's convienient.

 

[aroshi]

Wow. 7 pages of posts. I figure I shall invest my $0.02 here. Seems worthwhile.

My philosophy is pretty much the same as Sean85746's where I don't bother to be searched unless the alarm thing goes off. Though, most of the time, I don't even realize it's for me, unless I have bought some electronics / cd / dvd, where I expect the thing to malfunction or not get turned off properly.

I would like to add, though, that I do always give a good look at the nice elderly people who are working that wonderful door drone job, add to that a smile and a quick nod, and then when the buzzer goes off, they don't even bother to look in the bag. If they do, I don't mind as long as they're courteous.

Having worked in retail, in security, and in LE in PA, I know that private citizens, including non-LEO security guards may not detail you against your will. Most will appear threatening and ask you nicely to come with them assuming that if you realize you've been caught, you'll give up. They are not allowed to put their hands on you, period. In effect, one would be detaining themselves until LE arrives. But it works.

I think it's pretty safe to say that most of us that not only accept the responsiblity to carry a firearm and express our 2nd Amendment rights, but who, in addition, also choose to express their 1st/3rd Amendment rights by gathering here in cyberspace to speak their minds would not be likely shoplifters or thieves. I don't believe that to be 100%, but pretty close. I think that many of our views are along similar veins, some with more, some with less bravado or "sheep"ishness. I agree, though, that The HIGH ROAD is an appropriate name for a place to find such a discussion.

Shoot straight, train well, and be safe.

 

[Sindawe]

Jay Kominek

I was finally able to find the section of the Colorado Revised Statues I was referring to below:

Quote: State laws vary, but what I can make of Colorado's vague, convoluted legaleze gibberish, merchants can hold a suspected thief, and are absolved of liability should they be in error. Out of curiousity, where are you finding that? 16-3-102 and 16-3-201 seem to lay out who can arrest, and 16-3-103 is detentions(?). IANAL, of course, but it looks like non-peace officers can only arrest, and only when they see the crime.

-----
18-4-407. Questioning of person suspected of theft without liability.

If any person triggers an alarm or a theft detection device as defined in section 18-4-417 (2) or conceals upon his person or otherwise carries away any unpurchased goods, wares, or merchandise held or owned by any store or mercantile establishment, the merchant or any employee thereof or any peace officer, acting in good faith and upon probable cause based upon reasonable grounds therefor, may detain and question such person, in a reasonable manner for the purpose of ascertaining whether the person is guilty of theft. Such questioning of a person by a merchant, merchant's employee, or peace or police officer does not render the merchant, merchant's employee, or peace officer civilly or criminally liable for slander, false arrest, false imprisonment, malicious prosecution, or unlawful detention.
-----

 

[Cosmoline]

That's a truly evil code provision. It gives them the power of law enforcement plus liability protection, but no real responsibility.

 

[Coronach]

I'm not currently possessed of the time to run down this entire thread. so:

Original Question:

What authority do Loss Prevention People Have?

Answer:

It depends. Mostly, it depends on where you are.

In Ohio a merchant or his agent (read: loss prevention) has the authority to detain anyone they suspect of commiting a theft offense until a law enforcement officer can be summoned to take them into custody. This means they can grab you, and they can restrain you.

The CON side of this is obvious: it means that a minimum-wage salesdrone at MegaMart can decide that you are a thief and decide that you need to be held for the cops. This means he can grab you and cuff you, and it is not assault, kidnapping, wrongful imprisonment, or anything else that I've heard from optimistic shoplifters. If you are not a thief this translates into either winning the case at trial and/or being released immediately when the cop shows up, and also having a pack of salivating lawyers willing to take your lawsuit on contingency.

The legal angle actually DOES pressure stores to make pretty darned sure that they are correct and reasonable in apprehending theives. I know of one major chain that will not even attempt to stop a thief. They let them load up shopping carts and walk them out to their cars, unmolested.

The PRO side is less obvious...lets say you own a store. Someone steals something, and you catch them. Absent provisions like this, it means that they just get to walk away, and if you touch them it is assault, or worse. Unless you have a cop in the store, they won't be caught.

Mike

 

[mfree]

I have a feeling that if you pay attention to the laws, and dress to attract attention, someone like our Target Protection Specialist will make you very, very wealthy some day.

And I have no problem with that.

I have no problem with "busting" people who do not know the laws behind the jobs they perform or the people who let their egos get on top of themselves.

I worked for Radioshack for 5 years. These are tiny stores with 5 or 6 employees and *everyone* gets trained in loss prevention and the applicable laws. I could not detain anyone in any way unless I witnessed product going in pocket and subject bypassing the counters, and even then the most I was suppsoed to do was lock the door and call the police. How many people did I witness get detained in 5 years? Zero. We also followed the "constant attention" model of loss prevention. Are you going to stuff your pockets when a sales lackie won't leave your side?

P.S. work anywhere but radioshack unless you have to work to eat... $7 an hour isn't enough to put up with everything they want.

 

[Edmond]

Why are so many people making it a point that the loss prevention people at the stores are "minimum wage"? Are we trying to degrade them any way that we can?

 

[Coronach]

I, for one, was pointing out the 'worst case' scenario in my post. Note, if you will, I also said 'salesdrone', not LPO. There are some stores that don't have loss prevention, and who rely upon store clerks (who are most assuredly not trained in loss prevention) to apprehend shoplifters.

The vast majority of LPOs, however, are very skilled and professional. Most of them provide excellent evidence of the thefts to the police and the courts, and treat the shoplifters they catch professionally.

Mike

 

[Sean85746]

I am not degrading anyone EXCEPT the moron that grabbed me.

I agree that private security does, in fact, serve a valuable purpose. In many instances, it is a requirement for insurance coverage in an event or retail setting. I know it is an often thankless, and suck job, but it is one that must be done, and there are some who enjoy it, and do it well. My hat's off to those folks.

When I was still a street cop, don't think for a minute that I'd not assist private security when I was off duty. On the several occaisions I had to do it off duty, I simply walked up, produced my badge and calmed the situation down until on-duty officers showed up, or until it could be straightened out.

Even now, as an old fart, retired from federal service (injured in the line of duty)...I'd assist one of the elderly folks at the door at Wal Mart in any way I could. I figure they are there to avoid boredom, or because they want to supplement their retirement income, and still feel like a valuable member of the community, and bless them for it.

But, on that old flip side, I can't name the number of times I had to deal with a cop-wannabe that started conversations with me with: "I observed the PERP (I hate that) attempting to thus and so and blah blah blah..."

UGH, but what'ya gonna do? LOL

Let's keep our sense of humor, and remember that no matter what, don't eat the HOT wings at Long Wong's.

 

[Ezekiel]

I found this entire thread to be representative of "intellectual masturbation" verses rampant "little-man syndrome". I was a State Parole Officer in a bad area and have seen -- and been -- both types.

I am a loss prevention executive/investigator with one of the world's largest retailers. To be honest, based upon overall percentage of loss, most of my time is spent on internal theft. Still, I am compelled to indicate the following:

First, if I decide to detain you, it shall be with the backing of excellent evidence that you have committed a crime. Second, if I decide to detain you, you will be detained -- short of your producing a weapon and threatening bodily harm to me or my associates (which is, of course, a crime unto itself). The backside (justifiably so)? If I am wrong, there is a heavy price to pay.

It is not that complicated: I am a professional.

Have you folks really run into that many jerks?

 

[Sindawe]

Have you folks really run into that many jerks?

I've only run into one, so far (see my posting earlier in the thread). One is enough to put me off a merchant for good.

 

[spacemanspiff]

okay ezekiel, got a question for you.

given that you only detain those who you are 110% positive are shoplifting, and i'm going to guesstimate that of all non-employee-shoplifters, you probably catch 10% of them, how often do you let suspicious people leave your store, that you dont have positive evidence they are thieves?