Department store security authority

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Mark in California said:
As a added bonus, if one of the officer is a full time police officer and you fight him, you just commited assualt on a officer.
Nope, no elite class there. :rolleyes:

Sean85746 I agree with you in every way on this issue, I just choose to be a bit more passive when it comes to the physical aspect. I prefer to fight my battles in court, mainly because the rewards are much greater there.
 
oh yeah, according to my Valley Girl Thesaurus, its "Nordy's".
its a good thing you're eye candy, you know.
 
I haven't read all the replies to this thread, but just thought I'd give the members a heads-up of what to expect if you come into a Target and set off an EAS alarm. Usually there will be a TPS (Target Protection Specialist) standing at the entrance. They'll approach you, ask to check your bags and receipt, and if any unpaid merchandise is seen, they'll ask if you wish to purchase it. If you do, just go back to the lane and buy it. If not, then the merchandise will just be taken up to Guest Services. We also perform reciept checks if we see items on the bottom of a shopping cart. I don't see these procedures as preventing theft as much as I see them correcting mistakes made at the point of sale. If the person does not wish to consent to a receipt and bag check, I have to let them go on their way. So far, no one has refused. I also try to go out of my way to make sure the people know I don't suspect them of stealing, and try to make sure the people around them know that as well.

Also, if I found out one of my team mates went up to a person and said "I know you stole something", or "What did you steal?" just because an alarm went off, I'd do my best to make sure they didn't work a day after that. If you've experienced that kind of treatment, I strongly encourage you to complain to the management.

As far as Target goes, you have to be seen entering without the merchandise, selecting merchandise, concealing and attempting to leave without paying. This means that once you walk past the last point of sale, you are fair game. You dont have to actually be out of the store. I think the same applies for other retailers like Wal-Mart and K-mart.

I'm not sure if the same applies for Wal-Mart and K-mart, but I know you can't be a sworn member of law enforcement and work in assets protection at Target. It's considered a conflict of interest.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to pm me. I probably don't know nearly as much as some of the other people on here, but I'll do my best to answer.

Chris

Target Ninja :p
 
Sorry

I did get a little heated reading what some wrote and maybe I went overboard. (See page 4). And after reading sm's Stop Please read, I felt I needed to apologize.

Funny thing is, as a "door drone" (part time job for money to play) I am a very nice guy. I greet everyone coming and going and perform my job to the best of my abilities and have fun doing it.

Target does a great job trying to stop and prevent shoplifters from costing all of us money. extremefishin00 spelled out what we do. If you refuse to allow us to search your bag, so be it. Have a nice day and please come back will be my response. However, if one of our plain clothes team members stops you and asks you to come back to our office and you refuse or resist, you will find yourself in cuffs one way or the other. But understand in our store, the evidence is already on tape and has been observed by at least 2 people. Claiming you did not do it will not help.

Now as to why we stop and ask to check your bags, we are trying to actually help you. Just imagine this situation, which unfortunately happens: You have bought a CD for your child. You give it as a birthday gift. They do not like what you have purchased and want to return it. You hand them the receipt and they head to the store with their friends. Now on the day you thought you bought the CD, you purchased over $100 dollars of other items and did not actually notice that the clerk made a mistake and did not scan the CD, thereby deactivating the security patch. Further, when I stopped you to check your bag, you blew me off and left. Now your child and their friends try to return an item that is not on the receipt. What do you think will happen? I will tell you. I will be called over and the clerk will explain to me that your child has just attempted to do an "Off the floor refund." Meaning they are trying to return an item for money that they did not pay for. Guess what, in my store, 13-17 year old females are most likely to shoplift. Boys in that range are second. Your child could now be taken into store custody, the Police will be called and so will you. You can guess the consequences. All because you thought you did nothing wrong and had nothing to prove to anyone. So the next time you think you bought a gift for someone and you set off the door alarm, please allow me to do my job and just check your receipt. If you have a bag with other items, my first thought is "Man, I really wish the cashier would have done their job so we are not bothering you, the customer." I am not thinking THIEF. So, just remember, even though you did nothing wrong and owe no one anything, your actions may have repercussions for your family or friends. Have a nice day and please come back soon.

Chris the Target Protection Specialist.
:) :) :)
 
If it was given as a gift, so no receipt, and the store readily admits their personnel miss deactivating tags with regularity, and then my givee was accused of theft?

I'd be going up the chain of command of that store and region so fast it'd make your head spin. Absent real evidence of theft, which solely a nondeactivated tag apparently cannot be considered (due to admitted cashier incompetence) the worst that should happen is the invocation of a store policy not allowing returns without receipt.

Throw in a baseless theft accusation founded on nothing but some kind of age profile, especially if anyone gets taken to the back room, and hello phone calls and letters to corporate.

I figure I'd get that thing exchanged eventually and thered probably be some retraining going on as well.
 
moby clark said:
However, if one of our plain clothes team members stops you and asks you to come back to our office and you refuse or resist, you will find yourself in cuffs one way or the other.
Backroom tactics, and refusing to hold someone in public until the police arrive. I guess I can add Target to my "no shop" list as long as they condone such actions.
 
I really appreciate Moby Clarke giving a more detailed description of the "inside" point of view.

Believe me, I have no problem with LP folks doing their job if they've "got the goods" on a thief. If I noticed someone concealing something in a store, it's highly likely that I'm going to notify store personnel..they can take it from there. Something to consider...my 49 year old wife has been the victim of sexual assault. If a male LP person (not a uniformed LEO) tried to take her to a back room (factor in that she hasn't stolen anything) he's gonna be in for the fight of his life because in her mind she's gonna be fighting for hers. I'm not trying to be provocative here, just stating a fact...not making her out to be some sort of Kung Fu Lou. Remember, the premise that most of us started from on this thread was "I haven't stolen anything and never intend to steal anything".

I understand the rationale behind the door scanners, but I'm sure that we all realize that there are far more false alarms than actual theft attempts. Personally, my response is going to depend a great deal upon the attitude/approach of the employee. (OK, to be honest we also have to factor my mood into the equation.) In that regard I think the stores might be well advised to use more little old ladies at the exits...may not chase down/restrain as many theives but probably won't alienate as many honest (read: PAYING) customers.

It seems to me that what most of us object to (those that do object) is the idea that these huge corporations assume that they can implement these blanket "stop and search" policies for their benefit, knowing that the vast majority of folks won't bother to question their validity/legality.

Some of us see it differently.
 
If they think you have stolen something, they can report it. And they can certainly ASK to search you and demand you leave if you refuse. But that's as far as it should go.

What if they KNOW that you stole something (i.e saw you take it)?
 
CannibalCrowley,

One reason people aren't held in public is because there is a chance the subject would break loose and injure a guest or another team member. Also, there is no hiding in our office because we're taped 24 hours a day as well. If someone gets the bright idea of cutting the vcr off so it won't record, guess what, they'll be caught on tape cutting the vcr off.

c_yeager,

Some of the individuals in loss prevention are not authorized to make stops. Even if they observe all the steps involved in making a stop, they cannot make an apprehension. All they can do is get as much information as they can, and pass it on to a higher up, or another store. Or they can just bug the person until they finally drop the merchandise somewhere.

moby clarke,

Two Target Protection Specialists named Chris on the same board. What are the odds...
 
Shoplifting is the store's problem, not mine. They need to find a way to control it that doesn't interfere, impede, select, suspect, accuse, search, make me prove, or otherwise even intimate that I'm a theif. If they can't do that invisibly and seamlessly, I won't spend my money there. The sheep might not object, I do.
 
RileyMC,

Like I said before, if you just set off an alarm, and someone accuses you of shoplifting, you need to find a manager, or better yet, the manager of loss prevention, and complain to them. If someone were to do that in my store, they would be looking for another job.


Chris
 
If I set off an alarm on the way out, I go back to a clerk or customer service. They remove the whatever that caused the alarm to go off and I'm on my way. It almost never happens, and when it does it's no big.

That said, any store that routinely checks customers/purchases/receipts on the way out won't get my business. I'll go so far as to say that if they did, I'd immediately go back and return all my purchases for a full refund and never shop there again.

I don't care if stores videotape me from the time I enter to the time I leave. They can follow me around all over the store with video cameras for all I care. They can run me through facial recognition databases til the cows come home. Don't stop me on the way out and make me prove I'm not a theif.
 
If you think setting off the alarm when you leave is bad, try setting it off when you walk into the store! I only ride an MC so I've always got a backpack and usually my carry piece is tucked in the small pocket.

One night, about midnight, I walked into a local Kroger and had to pass through the security gates since all the other doors were closed. There were two people manning the self-checkout lines (only lines open) and they both gave me this really wierd look. I stood there for a second trying to figure out how in the hell I just set off the alarm with an empty backpack and only my gun. So I walked in, said, "Your door must not like me," and proceeded to go shopping. Got the stuff I wanted, checked out, stuffed it in my bag in front of the clerk, and walked out as the alarm went off.

Manager comes running out as I'm starting my bike and asks, "Did you set the alarm off?" I told, him, "Sure did, and I set it off coming in too! Why, do you want to look in my bag?" He sorta looked at me funny, stuttered something to me, turned around, and left. I had no intention of opening my bag but I wanted to let him feel he was making the decision and not me forcing his hand. If he had said yes, I would have told him, "No problem, but why don't you call HPD because I'm not opening my bag for anyone but them." I'm not going to create a scene or be unreasonable, but I've got a gun and that bag is staying closed until the PD shows up and I can explain why I don't want to open it.

I've only had a problem at one store (another Kroger) where I was almost refused entry because I was wearing my bag. The door lady says, you have to leave it here, I asked if she was willing to take responsibility for the contents of my bag. She stared at me, I asked her again if she wanted to take personal responsibility for what was inside my bag, and she called the manager. The manager explained they had a shoplifting problem with people wearing bags. I asked if it was their policy to discriminate against MC riders because they had no choice but to wear a backpack. He proceeded to become indignant and say that he wasn't discriminating against me but he had no choice. I told him that he was indeed discriminating against me and asked him to provide me with the contact information for the store manager, area manager, and state contacts.

I guess I made him feel bad because he asked a clerk to escort me through the store. I had only palnned to pick up a bottle of wine for a dinner at my brothers house but instead I wandered all the aisles, chilled 4 bottles of wine, decided on different ones, read every label twice, and generally just talked bikes with the guy following me around. He told me he appreciated the break from the checkout line and I enjoyed seeing the manager pop his head in and out to watch. I ended up buying a single bottle of wine, wasted 45 minutes of their time, and had a good time doing it. Then I wrote a few letters and the last time I was there, nobody said anything about my bag. :)

I know Best Buy and Wal-Mart are supposed to be the worst, but I've never been asked to open my bag at either of those stores once I pack it up at the counter. I think the helmet and padded jacket make me look more honest. :confused:
 
I've only had a problem at one store (another Kroger) where I was almost refused entry because I was wearing my bag.

Of all the grocery chains, IMHO Kroger's is the worst in this respect. My interactions described earlier in this thread was with one of their subsidiaries. As a result, they no longer get my food dollar. Wild Oats has better produce anyway. I'm with RileyMc, videotape me, follow me around (so I can ask 'em to grab things high up and low down for me :evil: )
 
Flyboy,

The best part is that we now have new uniforms, with a big, shiny badge that says "Target Protection Specialist" :rolleyes:I've had people think I was a rent-a-cop and a fire marshall so far. I guess it's better than looking like a park ranger.. :(

RileyMC,

I'm still not understanding what your issue is with receipt checks associated with an EAS alarm. I can understand being frustrated with having your bags checked EVERY time you go out of the door. The way I look at it, if you set off the alarm, you don't have to go back to the lane or up to a service desk, because someone is right there to check it out for you.

Chris
 
moby clarke
__________________
I only got to page 4. Could you please E-mail me the location of your Target? I have a couple trips coming up and need some extra spending money. Sounds like your store would be a good place to pick up some cash (once lawyer gets his cut) Thanks you
 
Why are people missing the point?

I don't object to showing what is in my bag IF I set off an alarm. DUH...it is because I KNOW a mistake has been made, and I am glad to stop.

BUT, If I don't set off an alarm, and I KNOW I have not stolen a darned thing...I don't even eat grapes off the produce aisles! I am not going to be bothered or hassled.

But, my point was...the human door stop was rude, confrontaional, and LAID HANDS on me...use common sense...no one has to be insulted like that.
 
I get your point exactly Sean85746, and thinking about it some more, your stance makes more sense than my original, though unspoken viewpoint of "Nope, not gonna stop no matter what."

State laws vary, but what I can make of Colorado's vague, convoluted legaleze gibberish, merchants can hold a suspected thief, and are absolved of liability should they be in error. :fire:
 
These overzealous security folk are violating what I like to call The John Wayne Creed: "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." From The Shootist.
 
State laws vary, but what I can make of Colorado's vague, convoluted legaleze gibberish, merchants can hold a suspected thief, and are absolved of liability should they be in error.
Out of curiousity, where are you finding that?
16-3-102 and 16-3-201 seem to lay out who can arrest, and 16-3-103 is detentions(?). IANAL, of course, but it looks like non-peace officers can only arrest, and only when they see the crime.
 
Out of curiousity, where are you finding that? 16-3-102 and 16-3-201 seem to lay out who can arrest, and 16-3-103 is detentions(?). IANAL, of course, but it looks like non-peace officers can only arrest, and only when they see the crime.

I did a search Colorado .gov site which linkes to the LexisNexis database of Colorado revised statutes. Let me see if I can find it again...

Nope, can't find the section again. :(

I looked at the sited sections of the code you've given, and it looks like your assessment is correct. I may (and probably was) in error or miss-read a section that does not apply. But I'm not a lawyer, and not trained in interpretation of legal code. Best my limited wits can deal with is biochemical pathways and gene recombination. :D
 
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