Disappointed with Springfield

[223lover]

I saved and bought a beautiful parkerized Springfiled Armory 1911A1 loaded. The name itself should wreak AMERICA. Yeah right after 3 Colts, and a S&W the last basion of USA makes the frames in Brazil. What a slap in the face. It's not the IMBEL frame that's the problem, it's the image one perceives as being located in the heart of America. OK I'm done.

 

[Mags]

Where have you been?

 

[223lover]

I guess under the haystack ......fast asleep. I guess so wrapped up in my Rock River stuff I haven't been paying attention.

 

[AKElroy]

Guns are international. One of my favorite pistols is a "Springfield" XDm. The only part of it NOT made in Croatia is, well, nothing. Still shoots great.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Springfield has imported it's 1911 frames from Brazil since they first started offering them over 30 years ago. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them, and any disappointment you have is because you didn't do your homework, and not because Springfield misrepresented their product.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[kdstrick]

Hey 223, I hear ya. I remember when Zenith, the last USA made TV, closed down shop. It was difficult thinking about the fact that I could no longer buy a TV that was "Made in the USA".

It is indeed an international market place nowdays. The benefit of that is that Springfield can produce a good pistol for a relatively good price due to the cheaper cost of doing business in Brazil and Serbia. In the end, the consumer wins by paying less for a desired product.

 

[LoneStarWings]

Just stick with American companies if there is a comparable product in the price range. I have an M1A from Springfield, the reciever may or may not be made in brazil, it just says "springfield, inc geneseo, il" on the bottom, no other markings other than the regular "US Rifle 7.62mm Springfield Amrory" on the top. Even so, to get any another company's M14 I'd be looking at 2500+, almost double what the springfield cost, because no one else really mass-produces them (and the cheap chinese ones are banned).

But for my pistols, I stick with smith & wesson for the most part, since they are made in the USA. 1911's luckily are still made in large quantities here in the US. For a good US made 1911 I'd look at STI or S&W.

 

[Just One Shot]

Hey 223, I hear ya. I remember when Zenith, the last USA made TV, closed down shop. It was difficult thinking about the fact that I could no longer buy a TV that was "Made in the USA".

Vizio is an American made TV. I have 2 and they have a great picture!

 

[gglass]

If the Brazilian made Springfield 1911 surprised you, you will be SHOCKED that the Springfield XD line in produced entirely in Croatia. The Springfield XD is only marketed in the U.S. under the Springfield name, and is actually the HS2000 made by HS Produkt.

If you have not heard... Springfield Armory is not one of America's oldest firearms manufacturers. It is actually a company founded in 1974 and is based in Geneseo, Illinois. After the Springfield Armory (Springfield, MA) was closed by the federal government in 1968, the Springfield Armory name revived in 1974 and used by Robert Reese, who formed a brand new company.

I am like you, in that I try to buy American MADE products whenever possible. In today's economy, I want to make sure that I am putting Americans to work. I don't even care if the company is based overseas as long as the product is PRODUCED here in the US.

My wife and I drive brand new Fords that were made in the US. My wife shoots a Ruger LCR made in the US. I shoot several Smith & Wessons and Rugers made in the US. My home is protected by a Mossberg 500A made in the US.

 

[nathan]

Rock Island 1911s aint one made in New Yrk State as well. Its from the Philippines. USA mean s nothing today. Manufacturers go for cheaper labor elsewhere to cut cost.

 

[kingpin008]

The name itself should wreak AMERICA.

How exactly does one "wreak America"?

 

[MADDOG]

Some of the STI products are also from the Philippines. RIA makes the frames.

 

[silversport]

How exactly does one "wreak America"?

I usually splash a little on my neck and chest...mmmmm...wearing Wisconsin today (just a hint of Beer Kase)
Bill

 

[Gryffydd]

If we all don't wake up and recognize that we have to buy our own products, we will all be living in a third-world country before long

It only means that "our products" have changed. We don't make TVs anymore...so what? We should make what we're good at.

 

[mljdeckard]

How well does it work? This will concern me much more than where it was made.

There are a whole stack of Kimber haters in here who try to tell me that my Kimber is inferior despite being made in Yonkers, NY.

 

[doubs43]

How exactly does one "wreak America"?

The word was probably supposed to be "reek".

Some years back when Norinco's "Model of the 1911A1" was taking sales away from Springfield Armory, I found it amusing that SA was running full page ads in the gun magazines lamenting the manufacture of John Browning's masterpiece in a foreign country. SA, of course, failed to mention that their guns were being made with Brazilian parts.

Having said that, I recently purchased a SA "GI Model" 1911A1 and couldn't be happier with it. It's been 100% reliable so far with 242 cast bullet rounds shot. One of the grip panels wasn't made quite right so I emailed SA and in a week I had a brand new, perfect set of new grips for my pistol. I offered to return the defective set - quite usable - and they didn't want them back.

The original poster could have saved himself the aggravation by reading the markings on the side of the frame before he purchased the pistol. I'm not being critical because I've also bought things only to find that they weren't what I thought they were. I imagine that most people have at one time or another.

 

[Gryffydd]

I will say that "Springfield Armory" has been somewhat deceptive in their ads. While their slogan "The Oldest Name in American Firearms" is technically true, it creates an idea about their company that's just not accurate. They're cashing in on the name, projecting an all-american image and selling mostly foreign made pistols.

That said, the XD line is fantastic, and their 1911s are fantastic. I'd take one of their Brazilian guns over a Kimber, but that's just me. The side of my 1911 Mil-Spec plainly says it's made in Brazil. The slide on my XD plainly says it's made in Croatia.
Anybody seriously concerned with where their guns are made has plenty of opportunity to figure it out before they buy.

 

[Col. Plink]

I have an XD45T and didn't really consider myself the owner of a Springfield until I bought a '55 Garand. They both, however, shoot extremely well. The XD just happens to be a very well-made pistol that has the original Springfield logo on it (with Croatian lettering...).

 

[CWL]

Vizio is an American made TV. I have 2 and they have a great picture!

Are you serious? Vizio is a SALES company that buys TVs 100% made in China and imports them into USA for high-volume sales into Walmart & Sams Club, Costco, etc. Why don't you take a good look at the "made in xxxxx" label on the back of your 2 TV sets?

There are ZERO TVs made in USA, some panels are made in Mexico, but the 'guts' of TVs are all from China. No other way to remain competitive.

I think that everyone should accept that the USA isn't a manufacturing power anymore. If SA can get high quality forged components from IMBEL, then that is their decision to remain competitive.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Are you serious? Vizio is a SALES company that buys TVs 100% made in China

to avoid confusion, Vizio is actually made in Taiwan...not the PRC

 

[CWL]

to avoid confusion, Vizio is actually made in Taiwan...not the PRC

Nope, the founders are from Taiwan, but the actual manufacture is in China. R&D may have originated in Taiwan, but manufacturing & assembly is conducted in China.

Even companies like Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, -all the 1st tier thru 3rd tier brands manufacture in China. Simple economics.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Well... disappointment is contagious, but I'd be willing to give you peace of mind, AND risk disappointment myself, by taking the pistol off your hands.

For say.... hmmm... a tidy sum of $1.00

Mind you, I wouldn't make this offer normally...

but you caught me in a weak moment.

 

[Italian Motorcycles]

Springfield sells a very good pistol made in Croatia, for a very attractive price. There's no advantage to buying American. You're not helping the USA if you choose American-made products over imported products. The notion "Buy American" is in fact Un-American - it's called Marxism.

Be a true American, buy the best product for your hard earned dollar. If it happens to be made in another country, so be it. If it happens to be made in the USA, so be it.

It's not a zero-sum transaction. It's not your money going overseas to be lost forever. You trade your money (labor) for a product. The maker of that product trades his/her material and labor for your dollar. Both sides win. You get the best value for your labor, and they have more money to spend on products, in fact sometimes American-made products if those products happen to offer the best value.

As each country trades for something of value, both become richer. The goal as an American is to produce the best products and offer the best value. THAT'S how America wins, not with Marxist spending and trade restrictions.

Doing anything else is simply rewarding inefficiency. Don't reward a company for being unable or unwilling to compete.

And don't fall for that unfair competition argument. If the USA took some of the burden (government regulations) off industry, the USA would be better able to compete.

When you force industry to pay extortion wages in exchange for unskilled labor ($35/hr to screw-in a headlight), and then force industry to emit practically nothing during the production process itself (no pollution of any type whatsoever), and you allow attorneys to sue industry for every possible hazard (sharp knife, loud horn)... you end up with an uncompetitive product. Expensive, and not all that good compared to the competition.

When I shop for a product I buy the best product for the lowest price. If sales slipped at S&W because of competition, you'd see S&W quickly do something to become more competitive. Of course in the USA we have organized crime, I mean labor, and these government regulations and restrictions handcuff industry and often result in overpriced products of questionable quality. Keep buying those overpriced products of questionable quality and they'll happily keep making them.

Springfield sells a very good pistol made in Croatia, for a very attractive price. That's going to force other manufacturers to step up and improve their products and production. Everyone wins when that happens.

That's my $0.02

 

[DeepSouth]

On second thought, I'll take the High Road and refrain for comment.

 

[LoneStarWings]

As each country trades for something of value, both become richer. The goal as an American is to produce the best products and offer the best value. THAT'S how America wins, not with Marxist spending and trade restrictions.

The MASSIVE hole in your theory is:

Who's more likely to do business with YOU? A person in the neighboring city or state who works at a firearms manufacturer, who's financial position you helped by buying their product, or some $1/day factory worker in the 3rd world?

Personally, I'll go out of my way not only to buy american, but buy local. I also make sure they're actually MAKING their products here, not just selling them here.

Also, equating organized labor to a criminal organization is rediculous. Workers have a right to organize and bargain collectively, and I am happy to facilitate that right by paying a little more to help out my neighbors, vs someone on the other side of the planet who I'll never interact with.