Do you actually use your “everything rifle”?

[bigpower491]

I built my VZ24 Mauser in 338-06 just for that purpose. 1 caliber to cover the continent. You bet it goes to camp with me every yr. It's becoming quite apparent I may never take those elk, moose, and bear hunts with it, but I'm covered if opportunity knocks

 

[sage5907]

I bought a Tikka t3lite in 30-06 for my do everything rifle. I've carried it around a lot, Just haven't had game show up when the 30-06 was in my hands.

Haven't you ever heard of an unlucky rifle? Several years ago I had a beautiful 270 Weatherby. I hunted with it every year for several years but I never could find a bag mature buck when I had it in my hands. I would get frustrated and take a different rifle and like magic a big buck would show up. After a frustrating trip to Meeker, Colorado I got so frustrated I gave the rifle to a good friend and after 20 years of hunting he never took a good buck with the rifle. I never told my friend about how unlucky the rifle was and he never figured it out! In fact, he died about a month ago at age 82 and his son-in-law asked me if I wanted the rifle back and I about swallowed my tongue when I quickly said No. Let the lucky new owner enjoy the rifle! .

 

[adcoch1]

Haven't you ever heard of an unlucky rifle? Several years ago I had a beautiful 270 Weatherby. I hunted with it every year for several years but I never could find a bag mature buck when I had it in my hands. I would get frustrated and take a different rifle and like magic a big buck would show up. After a frustrating trip to Meeker, Colorado I got so frustrated I gave the rifle to a good friend and after 20 years of hunting he never took a good buck with the rifle. I never told my friend about how unlucky the rifle was and he never figured it out! In fact, he died about a month ago at age 82 and his son-in-law asked me if I wanted the rifle back and I about swallowed my tongue when I quickly said No. Let the lucky new owner enjoy the rifle! .

Truth is, I've never taken big game with a 30-06... But my 44 mag is VERY lucky!

 

[DM~]

My 338-06 with a featherweight barrel will shoot a 180 grain bullet over 2800 fps and recoil is tolerable. This barrel should also shoot a 180 bullet over 2800 fps and the velocity over 2800 depends on how much powder you want to use.

Only way any .338-06 I've owned would go that fast, is if I had the pressures waaay up there, none would do it at the pressures "it should" be held to.

Also, you must be able to tolerate recoil much better than I can...

DM

 

[courtgreene]

Pretty much all of my rifles are “everything rifle(s).” I have some .223s for kids and small adults to borrow or learn on, but all of my other rifles are general purpose.
That said, the go to is a savage stevens 200 (best value of any rifle ever IMO) in .308win. It is accurate, has never rusted, and no matter who I hand it to, they usually have to ask me to show them how to skin a deer shortly thereafter. It’s done well in my hands also.

 

[Varminterror]

Only way any .338-06 I've owned would go that fast, is if I had the pressures waaay up there, none would do it at the pressures "it should" be held to.

Also, you must be able to tolerate recoil much better than I can...

DM

You must be running some SHORT barrels in 338 A-Square. 2800 with 180’s is 100-200fps below book max. Hell, 338 Federal pushes right up against 2800 with a 180, 338-06 clears it with street shoes.

 

[Picher]

I have a few "almost everything" rifles, but it seems that, all too often the one I'm carrying isn't "quite" right for what I encounter. However, I've found that when it comes to "not edible" varmint species, bigger is often better. When in my teens, the only centerfire rifle I owned was a .30-06 with a 2.5X scope on it. I used it for varmint hunting more than for deer, but it was a 'boomer'! Still, I, at 15-18 yrs old, it claimed quite a few woodchucks, a few crows and a even a few deer in the fall. The scope was definitely under-powered for varmint hunting, but it worked on woodchucks too.

 

[sage5907]

2800 with 180’s is 100-200fps below book max. Hell, 338 Federal pushes right up against 2800 with a 180, 338-06 clears it with street shoes.

Yes, it's easy to get 2800 fps with a 180 grain AccuBond in my 338-06 rifles. These bullets are very accurate and expand into a perfect mushroom. When I built my rifles I wanted to get the higher velocity without using the heavy bullets that are in most 338-06 loads. I have been loading 55 grains of Reloader 15 and 55 grains of Viht 150 with good results. The Nosler guide goes over 2900 fps with heavier charges. My rifles weigh a little over 8 pounds and somewhere along the way recoil quit bothering me and I don't pay much attention. I do almost all of my 338-06 shooting from a sitting position with a single shooting stick just like I hunt and this reduces the affect of the recoil. A well designed rifle stock and a Pachmayr decelerator pad complete the equation.

 

[DM~]

Yes, it's easy to get 2800 fps with a 180 grain AccuBond in my 338-06 rifles. These bullets are very accurate and expand into a perfect mushroom. When I built my rifles I wanted to get the higher velocity without using the heavy bullets that are in most 338-06 loads. I have been loading 55 grains of Reloader 15 and 55 grains of Viht 150 with good results. The Nosler guide goes over 2900 fps with heavier charges. My rifles weigh a little over 8 pounds and somewhere along the way recoil quit bothering me and I don't pay much attention. I do almost all of my 338-06 shooting from a sitting position with a single shooting stick just like I hunt and this reduces the affect of the recoil. A well designed rifle stock and a Pachmayr decelerator pad complete the equation.

OK, I have a confession to make.

When I first read your original post, I swear it read "200 grain bullets", I quoted it and answered. Now I see it says 180's and I've never fired 180's in any .338-06 as I always made my loads for something bigger than a deer. Pretty much anything will kill deer...

SO, I have no idea what 180's would do, but 2800 for 200's is not happening in any that I've owned or own, at least at usable pressures.

DM

 

[bigpower491]

OK, I have a confession to make.







When I first read your original post, I swear it read "200 grain bullets", I quoted it and answered. Now I see it says 180's and I've never fired 180's in any .338-06 as I always made my loads for something bigger than a deer. Pretty much anything will kill deer...







SO, I have no idea what 180's would do, but 2800 for 200's is not happening in any that I've owned or own, at least at usable pressures.







DM

My "everything" load for the Mauser is a 225 Hornady at 2650fps. I get there with 55.1gr of VV N150. A few tenths under max. Of course it has a fairly tight chambered Douglas barrel on it, 24" in length. I'm certain I could probably run a 200 up close to 2850-2900, but I definitely don't need that kind of go go. Got a 300 Winchester for that.

I took Elmer's advice when I built this rifle, a derivative of the the 333OKH wildcat, of which he's the "K"....Heavy bullets driven at moderate velocities equal quick clean kills. The meat damage is minimal

 

[sage5907]

You would think that a 180 grain 338 Nosler AccuBond would be a shorter appearing bullet than the Nosler 210 grain Partition but it's not. Nosler uses so much copper in the base of the AccuBond that the length of the AccuBond is comparable and with the teflon tip actually longer than the Partition. There has always been a point about a short stubby bullet not flying as well as a longer bullet. The extra copper in the base of the AccuBond changes it from a short stubby bullet to a longer slim bullet. It has always been true for a bullet of any particular weight that if you increase the diameter and put more powder behind it the velocity will increase. That's why a 180 grain bullet out of a 338-06 is so fast. Thanks for all of the comments.

 

[sage5907]

I took Elmer's advice when I built this rifle, a derivative of the the 333OKH wildcat, of which he's the "K"....Heavy bullets driven at moderate velocities equal quick clean kills. The meat damage is minimal

I definitely agree with this comment. When a 338 180 grain AccuBond hits a big deer with a high shoulder shot the hydrostatic blood shock is terrible. The whole front quarters and neck are saturated with blood and broken blood vessels. The only salvageable meat that is not blood soaked is the back strap and hind quarters.

 

[Varminterror]

I have no idea what 180's would do, but 2800 for 200's is not happening in any that I've owned or own, at least at usable pressures.

Hodgdon has a handful of powders putting 200’s comfortably over 2800 - in a 24” barrel. My 338 A Square’s were 20” and 22”, so obviously I wasn’t getting them that fast, and StaBall wasn’t around yet, hell, CFE223 wasn’t around yet for my first 338-06. I almost exclusively used Varget in mine, and I recall knocking on 2800’s door closely enough to know it should be attainable in a Sporter length, just not in the short barrels we usually use for thumpers like 338-06.

I always forget about 338-06. It’s been one of my favorite cartridges - I shouldn’t forget to name it as one of my recommendations for an “Everything hunting rifle”.

 

[sage5907]

Ron Spoomer did a test where he fired a 150 grain Accubond from a 270 Winchester, a 150 grain AccuBond from a 280 Remington, and a 150 grain AccuBond from a 30-06 and compared the velocity and bullet drop at 400 yards. The 150 grain bullet from the 30-06 at 400 yards was traveling faster and had less bullet drop than either of the other cartridges. I use this explanation to explain why I use the 180 AccuBond in a 338-06 for deer hunting. It also explains why a 30-06 is so popular as an "Everything hunting rifle."

 

[Varminterror]

Ron Spoomer did a test where he fired a 150 grain Accubond from a 270 Winchester, a 150 grain AccuBond from a 280 Remington, and a 150 grain AccuBond from a 30-06 and compared the velocity and bullet drop at 400 yards. The 150 grain bullet from the 30-06 at 400 yards was traveling faster and had less bullet drop than either of the other cartridges.

The larger bores make more out of powder charges, but the ONLY way this is possible is to cherry pick underwhelming bullet options and reduce the powder charge unduly for the smaller bores. He’s clearly stacking the deck HEAVILY if he can’t get higher BC bullets to shoot flatter (for example, using 400yrds as the max distance).

 

[BreechFace]

Ron Spoomer did a test where he fired a 150 grain Accubond from a 270 Winchester, a 150 grain AccuBond from a 280 Remington, and a 150 grain AccuBond from a 30-06 and compared the velocity and bullet drop at 400 yards. The 150 grain bullet from the 30-06 at 400 yards was traveling faster and had less bullet drop than either of the other cartridges. I use this explanation to explain why I use the 180 AccuBond in a 338-06 for deer hunting. It also explains why a 30-06 is so popular as an "Everything hunting rifle."

both the .277’s and .284’s of the same bullet weight as the 308 given they are the same bullet accubond should over take the 308 as they are in the similar class of case capacity, but with higher BC’s.

i would have to look at the numbers the 30-06 is producing to see if there’s enough velocity advantage to allow for bleeding off at a lower bc.

 

[sage5907]

Makes no sense unless one is talking about short barrels where one can take advantage of the larger base of the 30 cal bullet to get it up to speed.

I agree, he may have used a 22 inch barrel on each rifle. The whole test would have changed if he would have used a 130 grain bullet in a 270, a 140 grain bullet in a 280 and 150 grain bullet in a 30-06. If you change the barrel length and loading components you can get any result you want.

 

[hq]

Truth is, I've never taken big game with a 30-06... But my 44 mag is VERY lucky!

I have a principle that all long guns I have must have drawn blood, sooner or later. A few have yet to and that seems to affect what I pick from the safe when I head out to the woods. The hopeless one so far has been a pre-Remlin 1894C in .357, whenever I bring it I come across game that can't legally be shot with it.

 

[adcoch1]

I have a principle that all long guns I have must have drawn blood, sooner or later. A few have yet to and that seems to affect what I pick from the safe when I head out to the woods. The hopeless one so far has been a pre-Remlin 1894C in .357, whenever I bring it I come across game that can't legally be shot with it.

I've shot some little stuff with the -06, but it's a bit big for varmints. Or frogs...

 

[hq]

I've shot some little stuff with the -06, but it's a bit big for varmints. Or frogs...

Sorry, I was a bit unclear. Varmints are housekeeping in my book, drawing blood means kills that head to the freezer and taxidermist. I've had frog legs in France at some point but I'm pretty sure they weren't harvested with a .30-06, though...

 

[adcoch1]

Sorry, I was a bit unclear. Varmints are housekeeping in my book, drawing blood means kills that head to the freezer and taxidermist. I've had frog legs in France at some point but I'm pretty sure they weren't harvested with a .30-06, though...

I also don't consider a big game rifle to be blooded until a big game animal has been harvested. But sometimes boredom gets the best of you, and you take a crow with a 30-06...

 

[mgmorden]

I agree, he may have used a 22 inch barrel on each rifle. The whole test would have changed if he would have used a 130 grain bullet in a 270, a 140 grain bullet in a 280 and 150 grain bullet in a 30-06. If you change the barrel length and loading components you can get any result you want.

I like him but Spomer tends to do that on most of his comparisons - take equal weight bullets in every caliber to compare them. Generally I like to reduce the weight as the bullet diameter decreases as a more comparable metric.

 

[Peakbagger46]

I like him but Spomer tends to do that on most of his comparisons - take equal weight bullets in every caliber to compare them. Generally I like to reduce the weight as the bullet diameter decreases as a more comparable metric.

Yeah, comparing same bullet weights for different bore diameters is DUMB.

 

[mshootnit]

Ron Spoomer did a test where he fired a 150 grain Accubond from a 270 Winchester, a 150 grain AccuBond from a 280 Remington, and a 150 grain AccuBond from a 30-06 and compared the velocity and bullet drop at 400 yards. The 150 grain bullet from the 30-06 at 400 yards was traveling faster and had less bullet drop than either of the other cartridges. I use this explanation to explain why I use the 180 AccuBond in a 338-06 for deer hunting. It also explains why a 30-06 is so popular as an "Everything hunting rifle."

Apparently out to 400 yds, the extra case capacity and bore volume are enough to trump BC for those 150's. in that case family. I have seen this before. And literally almost ALL deer are taken within 400 yds. The 30 cal 150 will tear a bigger hole too. My friend took a large buck with a 30-06 at 400 yds, and this guy doesn't target shoot much at all. I think he just zeroes at 200 yds, then practices with his bipod. I know another instance where a hunter with an old 30-06 and a 4X scope took a ram at over 500 yds. with one shot. A practiced hunter and a 30-06 is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[someguy2800]

Apparently out to 400 yds, the extra case capacity and bore volume are enough to trump BC for those 150's. in that case family. I have seen this before. And literally almost ALL deer are taken within 400 yds. The 30 cal 150 will tear a bigger hole too. My friend took a large buck with a 30-06 at 400 yds, and this guy doesn't target shoot much at all. I think he just zeroes at 200 yds, then practices with his bipod. I know another instance where a hunter with an old 30-06 and a 4X scope took a ram at over 500 yds. with one shot. A practiced hunter and a 30-06 is nothing to sneeze at.

Trajectory is not the issue, its the wind. Trajectory is easily figured with a ballistic calculator and a rangefinder. The higher BC but slower bullet is going to win in the wind every time.