Doctor asks-guns in the house?

[rogertc1]

Law enforcement disclosure powers
Q: Can the police get my medical information without a warrant?
A: Yes. The HIPAA rules provide a wide variety of circumstances under which medical information can be disclosed for law enforcement-related purposes without explicitly requiring a warrant.[iii] These circumstances include (1) law enforcement requests for information to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive, witness, or missing person (2) instances where there has been a crime committed on the premises of the covered entity, and (3) in a medical emergency in connection with a crime.[iv]

In other words, law enforcement is entitled to your records simply by asserting that you are a suspect or the victim of a crime.

The regulations also contain 2 separate subsections that specifically permit the release of private medical information for "National security and intelligence activities" as well as "Protective services for the President and others." One of these subsections states that a "covered entity may disclose protected health information to authorized federal officials for the conduct of lawful intelligence, counter-intelligence, and other national security activities authorized by the National Security Act."[v] The other subsection allows analogous disclosures in order to protect the President, former Presidents, Presidents-elect, foreign dignitaries and other VIPs.[vi]

 

[JoeShmoe]

There are more doctors in the world.

One reason my folks immigrated to America was so they could tell people to **** off when it's appropriate. I'd say this is an example of when it's appropriate.

If I had a serious health issue, I wouldn't care about the Doctor's politics.

 

[ArmedBear]

If I had a serious health issue, I wouldn't care about the Doctor's politics.

I'm assuming this is a GP thing. If I were arriving on a gurney, they wouldn't be handing me this paperwork.

 

[GojuBrian]

It's a standard question on these forms nowadays. I just mark through them.

 

[sprocket3]

I think our pediatrician asked us that when our son was about 3 months old. I didn't get it myself.

 

[Gungnir]

Well as a former non-immigrant, green card holder and now citizen they already have that information so they're learning nothing new (the information is supposed to be "purged" but I doubt that it will be in reality).

Anyway you need to read this http://answers.hhs.gov/questions/3585 the police can't just "ask" for them in their entirety, they can say we had this person with this injury and this blood type, can you give me names of those in that area that match that description, or under a court warrant, subpoena or summons. Also if you're a threat to an individual or the public, if you commit a crime on a HIPAA enrolled property, if you die, under child protection or domestic abuse protection, finally if you admit to your doctor that you committed a violent crime they can also report this to the police under certain circumstances (i.e. you're not receiving counselling or therapy for having a violent predisposition). It's actually pretty narrow in scope.

If the think the NSA Secret Service DHS need to use your medical information to find out whether you have firearms, you need a tin foil Stetson. Hell, unless you buy a firearm at a big box store, why else would you drop $300+ at a gun store? If it's ammo you have a gun, if it's a gun you have a gun, if it's a holster, sight, tools, cleaning supplies, etc. you have a gun, the only possible reason you might not have a gun is if it's a gift. However if you're regularly spending $100 or so every couple of months at a gun store, guess what, you have a gun. Those organizations have access to your financial information if they so desire; unless you're using cash there will be an entry of your transaction in your financial records.

 

[Va Shooter]

Tell the Doc "NOYFB"

 

[makarovnik]

My doctor tried to ask me that once about ten years ago. I said none of your business why do you ask? He was gathering some study information for who knows who. I'm sure he was getting paid or getting kickbacks for it though.

I have heard of doctors asking that when someone is being treated for depression or other conditions. That is a more legitimate reason but I still would not answer that. Someday the cops might show up and take all your guns because you were being treated for depression.

That totally could happen. So maybe it's best lie and say no. I just can't help myself sometimes with the good ole none of your business response.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

It's an AMA thing....

Apparently the AMA "guidelines" state that docs are supposed to ask that kind of thing....you should have seen mine's face when I told him that there were 155 or so firearms "lying around" the house.....it was worth it.

 

[warnerwh]

I believe the AMA is anti gun. I'd never give that info because it is unnecessary. If there is any way it would help anything I still wouldn't give that info. I'd sure like to know how it could help a doctor treat me. I'd call around for a pro gun doctor. I've never had a doctor ask anything like that before.

 

[lobo9er]

It's not like they can tell anyone anyway without your permission.

Did i miss the sarcasm? I hope so because they sure could. Can also put you on the no gun list and there no way off until the doctor wants you off. No lawyers or court just a doctor that says no more buying guns for you.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Sounds like a great chance to show that regular folks own guns and are responsible about it. Maybe you could even invite the doctor shooting. I suppose if that isn't your thing, you could just politely refuse or lie.

Then again, I'm sure being a jackass about it would help solidify the doctor's opinion of gun owners and the RKBA movement.

 

[divemedic]

I went into the Dr once for an ailment, and I can't remember what the ailment was, but I remember that I was unprepared for the Dr to listen to my chest. When she asked me to lift my shirt, she saw my 1911 in the IWB. She didn't say a word about it, just listened to lungs.

We discussed my illness, she wrote me my prescription, and I went on my way.

I love living in the south.

ETA:

In other words, law enforcement is entitled to your records simply by asserting that you are a suspect or the victim of a crime.

Yes and no. If the cops are requesting information form the Dr in connection with an investigation, sure. However, the Dr cannot just go to the cops and volunteer the information. I can also tell you this: as a medical provider, it is my experience that medical people do not volunteer PHI except in very strict cases. Hipaa is very scary, and it is unlikely that a Dr will be running his gator. Ask Rush Limbaugh- the cops had to subpoena the records in his case.

 

[mljdeckard]

Except Jorg, I bet it's the nurse who handles it and then files it, I doubt there will be much chance to have it start a conversation with the doctor at all. It's not like he is going to confront all of his patients about their guns.

Not medically relevant. I answer no.

 

[JoeShmoe]

I went into the Dr once for an ailment, and I can't remember what the ailment was, but I remember that I was unprepared for the Dr to listen to my chest. When she asked me to lift my shirt, she saw my 1911 in the IWB. She didn't say a word about it, just listened to lungs.

We discussed my illness, she wrote me my prescription, and I went on my way.

I love living in the south.

A Chiropractor friend of mine told me a similar story that happened in his office, right here in good old New York.

 

[SaxonPig]

The anti-gun AMA started this nonsense a number of years ago. Told physicians to counsel patients that guns are a hazard and to remove them from the house.

Laughable considering far more people die each year from medical malpractice than from gunshots. Physician, heal thyself!

Or go do something to yourself.

The last doctor who asked me that question blanched when I replied that not only did have loaded guns in my house, but I was carrying one on me at that very moment.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have heard of doctors asking that when someone is being treated for depression or other conditions.

That's legitimate. Some of the drugs they prescribe have caused people to attempt suicide -- they might work for 9 out of 10 patients, but the tenth one goes off the deep end. To keep someone who might react adversely to a drug from doing great harm to him/herself is a legitimate reason to discuss the patient's access to firearms.

Then again, I'm sure being a jackass about it would help solidify the doctor's opinion of gun owners and the RKBA movement.

Two things:

1. It's a sad state of affairs when calling the shots to someone you hire to perform a service for you is "being a jackass." The culture of civility has to work in all directions, and I do believe in a culture of civility.

2. If you think that the only way to assert yourself is to be a jackass, then it's time to learn some social skills. I don't think that telling someone, politely but without room for disagreement, that it's none of his business, when something isn't, is "being a jackass."

 

[Artiz]

Loaded and ready to rock and roll baby.

I believe it is for mental issues... gun people are crazy you know...

 

[PotatoJudge]

This comes up every so often on the gun boards, and the responses so far been about what usually gets posted.
Just a few thoughts:
Having an unsecured, loaded gun in your home is a modifiable risk factor for accidental death or injury and suicide. Pediatricians also commonly ask about pools and chemicals, and lots of other stuff that can be dangerous.
Not all gun owners are as responsible as us, and some will benefit from having it brought to their attention.
I'm in favor of hearing fewer "little Johnny accidentally killed his best friend with his dad's nine-millimeter" stories. I think if we're more supportive of non-government solutions there potentially could be fewer government restrictions. Realistically though, gun control is not about safety so I think this has little political value except in the realm of public opinion.
Your health information is protected. The chances of it being used by the government to take your guns is a heck of a lot smaller than them tracking your THR username. It's not that big a deal.
If the government ever comes for medical records for any reason you'll find a lot of doctors risking and losing their careers to protect your privacy. Now if healcare is socialized and all billing information is given to the government, that's another story (though I don't think there's an ICD9 code for "guns in the house").
You don't pick your doc for their politics, just like they won't treat you medically different for yours.

 

[mljdeckard]

If I have the option, I absolutely WILL pick a doctor for his politics. I have done so.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

ArmedBear, I'm pretty you misunderstood my post as nowhere did I say that politely disagreeing or asserting oneself make one a jackass. There are, however, plenty of responses in this thread and others like it that would indicate jackassery was the preferred choice.

 

[Gungnir]

Did i miss the sarcasm? I hope so because they sure could. Can also put you on the no gun list and there no way off until the doctor wants you off. No lawyers or court just a doctor that says no more buying guns for you.

Really? So I go to the Doc's for a boil on my ass and he says "no guns for you".

Interesting I don't remember seeing that in the restrictions of purchasing firearms. Sure if you've been involuntarily committed for psychiatric treatment, but there are checks and balances in doing that, you official records stating you are non-self determinant from two independent psychiatrists, and a court order that under Addington v. Texas requires "clear and compelling evidence". Sure your Doc can send you for a 72 hour evaluation, but at what cost to him from a civil suit if you're not found mentally incompetent.

As far as I'm aware there is no federal "no gun list" there's a NICS check, see below, and also this cross references ICE if your a non-American to confirm you're legally here. There are other possible State requirements

Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving

A delay response from the NICS Section indicates that either you or another individual with a similar name and/or similar descriptive features (name, sex, race, date of birth, state of residence, social security number, height, weight, or place of birth) has been matched with either state prohibitive criteria or one or more of the following federally prohibitive criteria:

* A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.

* Persons who are fugitives of justice—for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.

* An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.

* A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges of found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial.

* A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

* A person who, being an alien except as provided in subsection (y) (2), has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.

* A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.

* A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.

* The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.

* A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.

* A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

I don't see the category "your doctor says you can't" on that list. Please step away from the tin foil hat.

 

[Darkninja]

I actually checked the "yes" box for that question earlier this week. Yes, it may seem silly to single out guns over other dangerous household items, but if my doctor feels it's relevant information, I have no reason to deny it. After all, I'm guaranteed privacy under the law. And frankly, as an adult I feel I'm a lot more likely to accidentally hurt myself with a loaded gun than a piece of rope or a plastic bag.

Oh, and I happen to be a lifeguard, so I spend a lot more time thinking about pool safety than gun safety.

What's up fellow lifeguard.

Pretty awesome job huh?

 

[wishin]

Since doctors are big business these days, they use that to prepare their annual business projections and budget. Everybody knows more guns means gunshot wounds, which translates to greater profit potential.

 

[FROGO207]

One of mine has gone to the range with me. To see who had bragging rights as the best shot. He was this year.:banghead:

Note to self : practice/practice/practice some more