Does Ron Paul have a chance?

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Once a contender is picked, we must unite behind that person to defeat the Democrats in the general election.
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That's the party idea, but it only serves the parties. I want to elect people, the kind that will serve The People, in a manner consistent with the constitution. I'm not a Republican, I'm an American. I want to elect other Americans. I'd rather elect a raging Democrat like THR’s own benEzra that any of the big three Republican likely nominees. I may have to fight him everyday on taxes, gov. programs and other issues, but I’d feel more secure in my basic rights.

David
 
This may be why we have the problem that we do

I'm going to vote for who I believe is the best candidate in the primary.
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Me too.
(see, no disagreement...as far as action taken at the primary is concerned).

If a majority of republicans decide the nominee should be someone other than <snip>
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Your initial comments were how to vote concerning the primary (see above), I said nothing about what to do/what not to do concerning ROP nominations (after the primary).

thanks anyway, and keep that spirit!

t
 
That's the party idea, but it only serves the parties. I want to elect people, the kind that will serve The People, in a manner consistent with the constitution. I'm not a Republican, I'm an American. I want to elect other Americans. I'd rather elect a raging Democrat like THR’s own benEzra that any of the big three Republican likely nominees. I may have to fight him everyday on taxes, gov. programs and other issues, but I’d feel more secure in my basic rights.
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Thats fine, and its what many others here have said. You all are putting your "feelings" above your rights. I hope your feelings are enough when they come around to collect your guns.
 
STAGE 2,

Think what you want, but I've decided further compromise is the wrong path. In the end we'll see which of us sells his rights more dearly.

David
 
STAGE 2

Principles tanscend 'feelings'. Some fights are worth fighting even when you know you're gonna lose.

Biker
 
What Biker said +1 and:

Taurus Said

Conservatives and libertarians CANNOT afford to split their votes and and let Obama or Hillary divide conquer us. In the general election, we NEED to unite and defeat the Democratic party. And the sad fact is, the only way to defeat the Democratic party is to get the Republican party to win.

But I say:
Conservatives and Libertarians in no way equal each other. Conservatives want to maintain status quo and their own power. Libertarian want to dismantle this out of control .GOV built up by both both parties.

RP is not truly a libertarian. He disagrees with their party on a several major issues. This is why he is now a repub. The problem is repubs are hypocrites and he is not. The party lost its soul many years ago and he is probably the last true one.
 
Principles tanscend 'feelings'. Some fights are worth fighting even when you know you're gonna lose.
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This isn't the Alamo or Thermopylae. Statements like that sound great in a movie or in a speech, but mean squat in the real world.

The choice is simple. You can either fight smart and have something to show for it, or do your best impression of Custer and have your gun rights share the same fate.
 
Principles transcend 'feelings'. Some fights are worth fighting even when you know you're gonna lose.

Biker
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+1 ! Self-respect also fits in your equation, ya may have gotten yer butt whooped but the other guy will wonderin' for days "what the heck was that!"

Stealin' a line from Ian:
the train it won't stop going, no way to slow down.

t
 
You're wrong, STAGE 2. If you don't get it now, it can't be explained. Sometimes it's *the fight* that counts, not the outcome.
Best o' luck...

Biker
 
No Biker, I do understand, but such a decision is going to compromise the rights of millions of other gun owners hwo are trying desparately to keep them.

I understand principles, but making a point at the expense of other peoples rights is where I draw the line.
 
STAGE 2...

I *am* voting for the man who will best represent me and my rights. *You* are voting for someone you're hoping won't put too much sand in the Vaseline.
I'm told ya get used to it after a while. Be sure to let us know...;)

Biker
 
Long ago, in a squandered youth, I thought I was going to be the next light-heavyweight champion of the world. I wasn't quite championship material but my manager managed to line up a few real losers for me to whet my skills on. One night, after a six-rounder in San Diego, I sat alone in the dressing room. My eyes were swollen almost shut, my mouth had blood running out of it from the cuts and into it from my nose and my shoulders hurt like I'd been beaten with a club... and I had won! That was my last match.
Now we have a real fight on our hands; one that can cause pain and suffering long after it's over, not only for us but also for our children and grandchildren. Unlike that night in that smelly dressing room, we have the advantage of being able to look back at a first-round knockout for our inspiration.
We gunnies, hunters, paper punchers, skeet shooters and plinkers have flexed a muscle that few of us thought we possessed. In a nationwide fit of anger we dispatched a quisling in our midst. The sheer volume of angry e-mails flooding corporate offices was merely mind-boggling at first but soon became overwhelming. No one can really know just how many shooters actually took the time to post messages to all those companies but at least one writer estimated that only about 5% of all the gun owners and shooters in this country did so.
Think about it!! If 5% of shooters can sway the business instincts of several big corporations, what could 20% do? If four times as many messages were relayed to individual congresscritters regarding gun-control legislation their offices would have to be enlarged to handle the paperwork!
Of course, all the messages would have to say pretty much the same thing or the legislator would have no qualms about ignoring them. And isn't this the problem we're discussing here? If we split our own individual vote by voting on principle in the primary and then turning around and voting on expediency in the general election aren't we splitting each and every vote?
When some Greeny talks about global warming, I dismiss the whole idea as ignorant arrogance. This earth has been here a long time while we humans have only been here an eyeblink. Human beings are little more than mold on the face of this globe. The earth will continue long after we are gone.
Those who worry that their vote might be "wasted" are (IMHO) are about as arrogant as the Greenies. Take the time to look at the voting list for your precinct. How many names are on it? Divide the numeral "1" by that total and see just how much weight your vote carries.. Now go back to that 20% I mentioned earlier. If they - all of them - were to vote the same way...
We'll probably never know just what could happen. Too many people are too concerned with "wasting" their infinitessimal vote. Too many people think "principles" were left behind in high school.
 
I *am* voting for the man who will best represent me and my rights. *You* are voting for someone you're hoping won't put too much sand in the Vaseline.
I'm told ya get used to it after a while. Be sure to let us know...
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Nope. Not so idealistic as that. Once the primary is over and Paul doesn't even get 10% of the vote, there is no reason to support him. Its just marching off the cliff.
 
Beats standing in line for the shower at the reeducation camp.
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Not hardly. My scenario means a possibility of retaining our rights. Yours is sure to destroy it for everyone. No amount of lofty language is going to change the fact that these are the 2 real choices that everyone has.

Dress it up any way you want but that doesn't change the bottom line.

Furthermore, the idea that because you didn't get something exactly the way you wanted it you're going to let anti's walk all over you is a sure way to lose all of our rights. As long as there are stupid people, we are not going to have things the way they should be. Thats the nature of politics and the nature of humanity.

This is no reason to not take as much as we can when we can.
 
STAGE 2,

This is no reason to not take as much as we can when we can.
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When did we last take anything? Did I miss it? What did we take?

Nothing! We are being sold down the river bit by bit. Further delay just makes us weaker.

It is like we are being crushed by a constrictor and we are arguing whether we should stop breathing or let our last breath out as slowly as possible.

David
 
That's the party idea, but it only serves the parties. I want to elect people, the kind that will serve The People, in a manner consistent with the constitution. I'm not a Republican, I'm an American. I want to elect other Americans. I'd rather elect a raging Democrat like THR’s own benEzra that any of the big three Republican likely nominees. I may have to fight him everyday on taxes, gov. programs and other issues, but I’d feel more secure in my basic rights.
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+1

The party idea has been responsible in giving us a string of antigun Republicans. The likes of Nixon, Reagon, Bush Sr and even though he wasn't elected Ford have really hurt gunrights and were worse than alot of the Democrats running today but they get a flying pass just because of what party they belong too. We had a good half a decade of antigun candidates that have stripped away rights from both parties but people only seem to remember Clinton. Short memories in my opinion.

What I be really interested in if Rudy Giuliani gets the nomination and he is considered by many the favourite amongst the Republicans what the hell is going to happen since he makes Clinton look like a RKBA member.

Many of the others aren't much better including other front runners like McCain and god help us if someone like that loon Brownback gets in power.
 
All of you "NO COMPROMISE" voters, while noble, are stabbing yourselves in the foot and, unfortunately, we'll get the same result as the last election.

Sometimes compromise is the only way to take a step towards a larger goal. One shouldn't get frustrated and throw away the gains we've made. Hell, the very thing you all are fighting to protect is one GIANT compromise, both the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

I understand your frustration and reasoning, I just don't agree with the tactic at this time...there isn't enough back up yet.
 
PB,
The paradox is that the backup will never get here if the gun lobby collectively continues voting for anti-gun Republican presidents. The message we send Republican candidates is "ignore us, we'll vote for you anyway" and that not-as-fast slide toward a complete gun ban will still speed up.
 
Some fights are worth fighting even when you know you're gonna lose.
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No.

Winning is what matters. Once you've lost, you're principles have lost as well.

I fight the fights I can win, and do it in the way that will make me win. Voting third party will not make me win. It will make me lose faster. More glorious? Perhaps. But stupid.

A man who goes down with glory is just dead.
 
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