Does the US Army teach basic gun safety?

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My brother-in-law, at the time this happened a Lt. in the Marine Corp, literally tackled my sister when she was sweeping my parents. She was showing off her husbands new gun and she knows nothing about guns. He walked into the room, put her on the floor. She was upset because he never keeps his guns loaded. He went over the basic rules with her, and she understood. Seems like he was taught about gun safety.
 
Good god. When I was in, if a soldier pointed their sidearm at anybody, there would have been hell to pay. What kind of squad was that SFC running that his guys thought that was acceptable practice?
 
When I was in Security Police in the USAF, you'd hear about the occasional hot-dog practicing his quick draw and shooting a paper towel dispenser or something. One kid got killed getting into the back of a camper on a missile site (we had camper teams to secure the sites if the alarm system was out and needed repair). His partner was clearing his M-16 preparatory to taking a rest break. He forgot to take the magazine out of the weapon, pulled the charging handle to the rear, put the selector lever on semi and pulled the trigger (steps 3 thru 5 of the clearing procedure). He skipped putting the muzzle in the clearing barrel and taking out the mag(steps 1 and 2). The other guy on the team happened to be opening the back door to the camper at that moment and was struck in the chest from 7-10 ft. away. Partner was DRT.

Given that we carried live rounds every day, I was very serious about weapons safety and would flat walk up someone's back for a violation, especially breaches of muzzle discipline and the "booger hook off the bang switch" rule. Lackadaisical treatment of firearms safety rules flourishes where supervisors don't enforce them. Unfortunately, Sgt. 1st Class Cooper may have been partially responsible for his own death. If a subordinate had pointed a weapon at my chest in the manner described, he might very well have been sporting a broken arm. If I sound like a p***k, then so be it. I'm just as tough on my fellow police officers at the range and on duty, although I've never seen them break the rules like some did in the military.
 
I felt firearm safety was taught but not really reinforced.

Someone would clear your weapon for you when you leave the range. Someone would bitch at you if you swept them during an exercise. You would have to use a clearing barrel to go to chow.

My observation is the Army relies more on procedures to keep firearms safe than preaching safe behavior.
 
To speak to this specific incedent , if I read correctly Cpl. Ayers stated that he KNEW the pistol was loaded when he shot the Plt. Sgt. I don't think "safety " had anything to do W/it you might as well ask if any one taught cho firearms safety.

As others have said the Army doesn't really teach fire arms safety other than "keep the weapon up & down range"

When you go to the range they line you up and send you through an ammo distribution point right before you actually shoot. after you shoot some one else verifies that your weapon is clear and you go clean it.

When you're not actually on the range you spend a lot of time "training" W/ an unloaded weapon & a lot of the "training " involves pointing your weapon at other people & pulling the trigger.

IMO if basic rules ARE taught the actual practice does more to reenforce bad habits
 
According to the article, Cpl. Ayers assumed the gun was unloaded because he claims the gun was unloaded before...

"I don't know," Ayers replied when the judge, Col. John Head, asked why he fired. "I guess I felt so comfortable pulling the trigger when it wasn't loaded before, that I just did it."
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I'm not saying that makes sense. I'm just responding to treo in Post #35.
 
The Army did when I was in ROTC and the Army between 1976 and 1984. And the drill sergeants would go upside your head with their range rods if you displayed poor muzzle discipline.
 
Having been an Army Infantry team leader and squad leader, I would feel confident saying my men were taught gun safety. I also have to admit some of the most unsafe gun handling I have seen has also been in the military. As stated by others it all comes down to chain of command. A properly trained driver understands all the personell and equipment on their vehicle are their responsibility. A good medic understands his medical supplies must be kept up to par and readily accessible because persons lives depend on it. A good radio operator carries spare parts and extra batteries because communication can cost or save lives. Every soldier should understand guns are tools and maintaining them and handling them in a safe manner could cost or save lives. I'm now ot of the Army but still stay in contact with my soldiers who are still in. Am proud to say I have every confidence that none of their soldiers would think it appropriate to point a gun at anyone or anything they didn't plan on destroying, loaded, unloaded, or otherwise.
 
I often shoot on a military range with active duty Marine and Army troops. These guys are very safety conscious: Every one of them.
 
He said he pointed his 9mm pistol at Cooper's chest, from about an inch away. Cooper made no reaction. Ayers moved the weapon toward Cooper's shoulder, and while looking at other soldiers across the tent, pulled the trigger.
Click to expand...
Cooper, 36, was a 16-year Army veteran. In Iraq with the 2nd Battalion, 23rd Infantry Regiment, he was responsible for the performance and well-being of a dozen or so men in his Stryker Mobile Gun System platoon.
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It was Sgt. 1st Class David Cooper's responsibility to train his troops; he failed his men and it cost him his life. One of them killed him doing something that defied common sense and the Army let him off light. There is no way to forgive yourself for such a stupid, unthinking act., but SFC Cooper could have prevented this whole mess and gone home to his family if he had demanded his troops practice basic muzzle discipline.

There's a saying that familiarity breeds contempt; I suspect that's the case here. Contempt for his SFC and contempt for his weapon. If a soldier under your command pointed a pistol at your chest and you knew it wasn't loaded, would you have no reaction? I'd have a severe reaction because it violates muzzle discipline. What reaction would you have if you knew he routinely carried his pistol with a round chambered? You don't sweep your team and you certainly don't point a pistol at a "friends" chest. He shouldn't have been their friend.
 
This sounds like cold blooded murder to me.No one with military training could be that stupid,IMO.
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You would be suprised. It's not stupidity, it's complacency.

I don't think it was cold blooded murder. I can tell you that if a Cpl. in my platoon were to walk up to me and point his pistol at me at point blank range he'd have a millisecond to either pull the trigger or he'd be spending the rest of his career having to go to the head to clean his weapon because it would be lodged squarely up his rear.

Why didn't this Sgt. act? Why did he let him do it?

Simple. Complacency on both sides. They were screwing around. Maybe coming off another boring, uneventful op like the last 3 million they've done and they were screwing around. Cleaning weapons is tearfully boring and bored soldiers cause trouble. They always do.

I watched a Marine stab a fellow marine in the neck accidently when they were screwing around after sitting on a beach all day long in full gear staring at water they couldn't get into.

Not saying what he did wasn't stupid and irresponcible, but I doubt his intention was to kill his Sgt.
 
These are my direct experiences with armed forces personnel and guns.
I went to a public range on public land. I saw a fellow in full army dress (BDU's or whatever they are called) shooting two-handed sideways gangster style. I never made it up to the firing line. I got back in my car and left.
Another time I was at a range open to the public. There was another army fellow who came up to me and told me about how he likes to shoot "gangster style" while he was teaching a female army member how to shoot a pistol. Apparently she had never shot a pistol before, and this knuckle head was teaching her.
Im sorry, but for the most part, when I see military folks at a range I head the other way.

Edit: I suppose I should note that in both cases the offenders were fairly young, low 20's.
 
I went into the Army in ’72. Safety on the range was paramount. You sweep someone and the drill sergeant would take your weapon and make a Popsicle out of you.

However, off the range they weren’t all that concerned. If it were a deliberate act perhaps something would be said but I never saw that happen. When cleaning or just general handling of our weapons they paid little attention.
 
I am in the same Brigade as these two soldiers, and we are still deployed to Iraq. From what I know of this, if the SFC had lived he would have been in more trouble than the CPL. From what I have heard this was some stupid game that the SFC played with his soldiers. The CPL just didn't properly clear his weapon. Our entire brigade was shoked when this happened and we heard that this was a game the SFC played with his troops. Like I said, if he lived, he would have gotten a harsher sentence than his soldier. And yes we are taught firearms safety, but like everywhere else in the world you have people who think and act like they are above the rules, and so competent that they don't have to do the regular safety checks. It is very unfortunate, but it happens everywhere.
 
certainly did in 1993 you probably will get slap if you did something unsafe. Even now I'm still in the army and we keep remembering safety every time there is a gun around or we are just talking about one.
 
You would be suprised. It's not stupidity, it's complacency.

I don't think it was cold blooded murder. I can tell you that if a Cpl. in my platoon were to walk up to me and point his pistol at me at point blank range he'd have a millisecond to either pull the trigger or he'd be spending the rest of his career having to go to the head to clean his weapon because it would be lodged squarely up his rear.

Why didn't this Sgt. act? Why did he let him do it?

Simple. Complacency on both sides. They were screwing around. Maybe coming off another boring, uneventful op like the last 3 million they've done and they were screwing around. Cleaning weapons is tearfully boring and bored soldiers cause trouble. They always do.

I watched a Marine stab a fellow marine in the neck accidently when they were screwing around after sitting on a beach all day long in full gear staring at water they couldn't get into.

Not saying what he did wasn't stupid and irresponcible, but I doubt his intention was to kill his Sgt.
Click to expand...

I have to 100% agree with all of this. Just finished up 5 years in the Marines, the final year being spent in Iraq, and I can tell you that the saying "Complacency Kills" is no bullsh**. You spend months, even years training to be razor sharp for a deployment. Once you get in country, you do nothing but spend months on end driving up and down the same stretch of road with a bunch of TCN trucks. Everything becomes completely routine, and you have no idea why you worked so hard and trained so hard to do absolutely nothing. Once you reach this point, you're a casualty waiting to happen.

As an NCO, it was MY job to prevent this complacent attitude in my Marines. I knew they were feeling it. Hell, I felt it myself. But if it's tolerated for even a second it will spread like a virus, and someone will die. What sickens me about this situation is I was a corporal, same as the guy in this story. I would NEVER have tolerated this in one of my Marines, and damned sure not in one of my fellow NCOs.

From what is presented in the story, that SFC was not doing his job. This isn't like the civilian world where everyone shares equal responsibility for the 4 safety rules. One of your troops messes up, it's your fault. One of your subordinate NCOs messes up, it's your fault for letting him get promoted. If you allow the lax attitudes and the lowering of standards, it WILL get someone killed (this story is a perfect example).

I do not believe it was murder. I do not believe there was any malicious intent. I believe it was simply a matter of "I've done this a million times before, it's no big deal." I've witnessed that same attitude in my own troops countless times, and did my job by applying neccessary corrective action. So to answer the question, I'm quite certain the Army teaches basic weapons safety. This particular SNCO did not enforce those basic teachings, and the corporal didn't rate to wear the stripes he had. It's an individual failure, not an institutional failure.
 
There is another possible explanation for Cpl.Ayers actions ,although I don't buy it.
He may have come under the complusion of what psychiatry calls a "irresistible impulse" ,a term made famous by Michigan Court Judge John Voelker, writing under the pen name of Robert Traver in the novel, Anatomy of a Murder(1957),film(1959).
Based on a true case ,Traver chronicles the tale of Army Lt.Manion,who after learning of his wifes rape by bar owner Barry Quill,pumps 5 rounds of .45 ACP into the hapless Quill at point blank range.
His defense, devised by his defense attorney, Paul Beigler,is that the Lt. was overcome by this overwhelming impulse.
Great book,great movie and maybe this is the answer.

http://www.answers.com/topic/anatomy-of-a-murder?cat=entertainment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irresistible_impulse
http://www.buy.com/prod/anatomy-of-a-murder/q/loc/322/40136224.html
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_g...&field-keywords=anatomy+of+a+murder&x=14&y=17
 
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