Don't "Cotton" to the Old Guard

Given that it has been said in court that WLP is suffering from age related loss of brain structures and cognitive functioning for several years, the reputation is sunk even lower. Only a complete redo of the administration by an outside agency might work. Those who fought to keep him are culpable.
 
GOA, SAF, etc. are doing a good job on the legislative or judicial side. But I don't see anyone who's doing what the NRA does to promote firearms ownership or support activism. There's an old saying money talks, BS walks but the NRA gets more clout for less money than most other special interest groups.

When the antigunners win by outspending the NRA it's not by 10% or 25%, but MASSIVELY. It's not because a few million was lost within the organization. Budget wise, compared to other special interest groups the NRA is small potatoes. The power they have in elections or legislation is thousands of members calling their congressmen.

I hope they get their stuff together soon, because if we lose the NRA, it will be disastrous for gun rights in the US.
 
Choctaw said:
Exactly. GOA and FPC have been running circles around the NRA. I couldn't care less about the NRA's notoriety. We need results and these organizations are delivering.
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I haven't seen FPC assist with developing a range, and never seen a GOA certified instructor or range officer. Shooters have skin in the game. Uncle Ed with grandpa's shotgun rusting in the closet doesn't.
 
First of all, let's take a step back and look at what how far we've come.

While it can't be denied that the gun control factions have been fighting tooth and nail, the plain fact of the matter is that we HAVE been making progress, and good progress, since the GCA of 1968, which can arguably be said to be the height of gun control in this country...that, and the few years through the 70s.

And while there have been gun control measures pushed in various places, serious progress has been made on concealed carry and open carry across the states, and this includes reciprocity. It's NOTHING NEAR like how restrictive it was back in the 70s and early 80s.

May issue has almost completely gone by the wayside. Half the states were "may issue" in 1986. Today it's 8.

In 1986, one state was constitutional carry. Today it's 27 and the numbers are still increasing.

We fought our way through the 1994 AWB by getting a 10 year limit placed on it and then blocking any moves to continue it or make it permanent.

More states have moved to make open carry legal where it wasn't before.

NC finally managed to get rid of their ridiculous pistol purchase permit requirement.

And, of course, we've now incorporated the Second Amendment against the states, though there are a few which are bucking this as hard as they can.

And more Supreme Court wins besides that.

I realize this doesn't mean we've "won". The war for our rights (not just the RKBA) will NEVER be "won". As Thomas Jefferson said, "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance." The battle is never ending and we must always fight the good fight.

So stop with the doomsday thinking about the necessity of the NRA's future role. The plain fact of the matter is that we're STRONGER today not just because of the NRA...but because off ALL the efforts of ALL the organizations people have established to fight the good fight.

The NRA's corruption HURTS our cause. WE DO NOT NEED THAT KIND OF CORRUPTION. Until they can go fix themselves, they are at best causing as much harm as they are good. And all talks about shoring up the NRA through this when they've clearly demonstrated no actions to correct this is a CONTINUED waste of time and resources.


A map showing gun rights changes for the last almost 40 years.

Radical Gun Nuttery!

Tips, tricks, and hints for gun-rights advocates.
www.gun-nuttery.com
 
wayneinFL said:
I haven't seen FPC assist with developing a range, and never seen a GOA certified instructor or range officer. Shooters have skin in the game. Uncle Ed with grandpa's shotgun rusting in the closet doesn't.
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FPC and GOA spends most of their time in the courtroom making sure we all have guns available to shoot and play games with. The 2nd Amendment protects us all, even Uncle Ed and that shotgun rusting in his closet.
 
One point I've made before is that when the NRA was the 800 gorilla, you used to see Wayne on major news outlets defending the RKBA. Granted he wasn't the world's best speaker and today he certainly wouldn't be, due to his cortical health (but that doesn't stop our presidential candidates). However, even if he could - any appearance would be derailed by corruption conversations. You can't have your spokesperson be corrupt or seem to be. As a side example, look at the Georgia Trump Trial (NOT wanting to discuss the merits) but that might fall apart due to the DA hiring her boyfriend, etc. Can't be corrupt as this level of politics or legal issues.

The NRA needs someone who can rationally discuss the reason for the 2nd Amendment, discuss the various downsides of AWBs, CCIA locale type laws, etc. You need someone impeccable, intelligent, not corrupt, technically savvy and a good speaker. BTW, not some raving media schumck.
 
Choctaw said:
FPC and GOA spends most of their time in the courtroom making sure we all have guns available to shoot and play games with. The 2nd Amendment protects us all, even Uncle Ed and that shotgun rusting in his closet.
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No, they don't.
GOA is every bit as corrupt as the NRA if not more so.
And far less effective.
 
wayneinFL said:
I haven't seen FPC assist with developing a range, and never seen a GOA certified instructor or range officer. Shooters have skin in the game. Uncle Ed with grandpa's shotgun rusting in the closet doesn't.
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I don't need someone else to build me a range to go shooting, and I don't need a certified range officer either.
I need my 2A rights.
In the last ten years I've watched my rights dissappear at an alarming pace in my state, with nary a peep from the NRA. The NRA could evaporate tomorrow and I wouldn't notice their absense. That is why I no longer donate to the NRA, I will never again donate to the NRA, and I am not bemoaning their demise.
Good riddance to the grifters that have gutted the NRA and have been wearing it as a skin suit for the last decade.
 
silicosys4 said:
I don't need someone else to build me a range to go shooting, and I don't need a certified range officer either.
I need my 2A rights.
In the last ten years I've watched my rights dissappear at an alarming pace in my state, with nary a peep from the NRA. The NRA could evaporate tomorrow and I wouldn't notice their absense. That is why I no longer donate to the NRA, I will never again donate to the NRA, and I am not bemoaning their demise.
Good riddance to the grifters that have gutted the NRA and have been wearing it as a skin suit for the last decade.
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I didn't say you needed a range. New shooters do. Look at the percentage of gun owners in Washington, Oregon, and California, and look at the states just east of you. There aren't enough active gun owners to push back against the anti gun crowd.
 
wayneinFL said:
I didn't say you needed a range. New shooters do. Look at the percentage of gun owners in Washington, Oregon, and California, and look at the states just east of you. There aren't enough active gun owners to push back against the anti gun crowd.
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The NRA doesn't spend money on California, Washington, and Oregon. They have seemingly given up on pushing back against the anti gun crowd at the state level where anti gun laws are getting the most traction, where an effective NRA is most needed. They have become ineffective at converting hearts and minds to the point where it doesn't even look like they are trying and are a detriment to the pro-gun movement in our current culture (imo) by becoming corrupt and "icky" to the people both supporting and funding them, and the people they are trying to win over.
Not only have they become ineffective as a grassroots advocacy group, but they have also become largely toothless at the national level, a reputation more than an effective entity. The heavy lifting is being done by other groups.
 
silicosys4 said:
The NRA doesn't spend money on California, Washington, and Oregon. They have seemingly given up on pushing back against the anti gun crowd at the state level where anti gun laws are getting the most traction, where an effective NRA is most needed. They have become ineffective at converting hearts and minds to the point where it doesn't even look like they are trying and are a detriment to the pro-gun movement in our current culture (imo) by becoming corrupt and "icky" to the people both supporting and funding them, and the people they are trying to win over.
Not only have they become ineffective as a grassroots advocacy group, but they have also become largely toothless at the national level, a reputation more than an effective entity. The heavy lifting is being done by other groups.
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The NRA has always focused their $$$ at Congress. Any state level lobbying is almost always the state level organization affiliated with them......and thats a good thing. If California can't carry its own weight, why should my NRA $$$ bail them out? Here in Texas, its the TSRA.

As far as "heavy lifting"? No, the NRA is still the endorsement that conservative politicians seek.....along with the big $$$. Few in Congress could tell you what GOA or NAGR do.
 
I've been reading some of the daily summaries for the trial, and honestly it looks like the NRA has been focusing their dollars on themselves, or at least the ring leaders for some time.

Quite amazing really, how long, how much and the efforts to avoid transparency. The forensic accountants report and testimony was particularly damning. There's a complete report available for reading, just google Eric Hines, NRA Report.

My son is studying accounting now and I'm trying to get him to take the forensic route cause frankly this stuff is amazing as it unwinds as the money is followed..

I would seriously expect to see either some criminal charges filed or at least some additional civil suits to try and get some of this back.
 
I will always begrudge them for being totally silent on restrictions that were imposed in my state back in 2018. I'd been an NRA member since I was 19 years old. I just assumed if any kind of gun grab or unconstitutional restrictions ever cropped up in my state NRA would be there for a showdown, maybe that was naive but they didn't even mention it or put it on their site or raise awareness about it to urge vermonters to contact their governor/legislators.....
 
Up until recently the NRA has been the "whipping boy" for the gun haters. Must be doing something right. My carry permit says 1988 for original issue. NRA helped push for it. I used to give them money every year, now I go up a level of "life" usually each "important" election cycle, like this one. They haven't "sold me the Benefaction level, yet. Joe
 
wayneinFL said:
I haven't seen FPC assist with developing a range, and never seen a GOA certified instructor or range officer. Shooters have skin in the game. Uncle Ed with grandpa's shotgun rusting in the closet doesn't.
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GOA won't do it because certified instructors goes against GOA's core mission. Certified instructors support the idea that gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. GOA promotes that you, as a gun owner, has the right to own guns. GOA partners with instructors that put on a good product and promotes them. But GOA will not create their own "this is our lesson plan, it is this or nothing" certification system.

In FL, permitless carry faced major resistance from certified firearms instructors. You want to know why? Because permitless carry ate into their profits. And a certain lobbyist who has a fondness for cats was against permitless carry too since it ate into her organization's profits since the majority of CCW instructors were certified through her organization and that was a money printing machine.

Mind you, the certified instructors that put in those classes did it with a Heritage Roughrider, .22 shorts, and a buckey of sand, all in a convention center or hotel conference room.
 
dogtown tom said:
The NRA has always focused their $$$ at Congress. Any state level lobbying is almost always the state level organization affiliated with them......and thats a good thing. If California can't carry its own weight, why should my NRA $$$ bail them out? Here in Texas, its the TSRA.

As far as "heavy lifting"? No, the NRA is still the endorsement that conservative politicians seek.....along with the big $$$. Few in Congress could tell you what GOA or NAGR do.
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GOA is well known in Congress.
 
wayneinFL said:
I didn't say you needed a range. New shooters do. Look at the percentage of gun owners in Washington, Oregon, and California, and look at the states just east of you. There aren't enough active gun owners to push back against the anti gun crowd.
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I'm in talks with with lawmakers and other state officials in FL to fund the construction of more public ranges.

Do you talk to your elected officials about this issue?
 
dogtown tom said:
Sure it is. :rofl:
I've never heard any Democrat whining about any gun rights org other than the NRA.
The Dems don't even whine about the NSSF that does more in a week than the GOA has ever done.
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Weird, one the most power Democrats sure did complain about GOA. Former Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said the NRA was “bad, really bad” and that GOA is “even worse than bad.”

He said that on the floor of the US Senate when it came to who was the more aggressive gun rights org.

It was GOA that stopped UBC from passing in Congress when other orgs were willing to compromise. Something that Sen. Reid was heavily pushing for.

And here's PBS' report on what's going in in FL too.

 
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