Dry Firing - Yes, No, Maybe So? - The Definitive Answer...
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CajunBass
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How is it outdated?
Did the information somehow become invalid just because the original question got asked a few months (or even years) ago?
Sam1911
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Dryfiring is a critical facet of practicing for mastery of many types of shooting, certainly with handguns.
Many serious competitors drop a hammer on an empty chamber MORE times (many more times) than they drop on a live round. It builds trigger control and proper follow-through without the recoil of a live round masking your flinch, push, or other bad habits.
When I shot RIMFIRE rifles competitively (NRA 3-position in college), every shooter dry-fired their very expensive Anchutz .22s many, MANY thousands of times.
SOME firearms were designed with deficiencies which cause them undue stress and impact when dry-fired. This was far more common with earlier guns, and very few manufacturers still build products that are this fragile.
Many serious competitors drop a hammer on an empty chamber MORE times (many more times) than they drop on a live round. It builds trigger control and proper follow-through without the recoil of a live round masking your flinch, push, or other bad habits.
When I shot RIMFIRE rifles competitively (NRA 3-position in college), every shooter dry-fired their very expensive Anchutz .22s many, MANY thousands of times.
SOME firearms were designed with deficiencies which cause them undue stress and impact when dry-fired. This was far more common with earlier guns, and very few manufacturers still build products that are this fragile.
I very seldome dry fire any weapon unless it's an auto loader and I am going to field strip it and the manual calls for it to be dry fired. I will dry fire a revolver once or twice [after asking the seller if it's ok] to see if the cylander rotates and everything lines up.
Percy
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I practice dry-fire exercises quite regularly and would recommend every shooter do the same. I would recommend - as many other before me - to use snap caps to protect your firearm. You're on a gun-site I am of course assuming that you know to treat every gun as if it were loaded and never point at anything you don't intend to shoot (even with imaginary bullets).
makarovnik
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Don't dry fire a Kel-Tec or you will damage the threads on the Frankenbolt and never get it out.
RobMoore
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Those who never dry fire are leaving a huge whole in their proficiency.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
You really, really need to study and read more about shooting skills.
I've been pushed to dryfire practice by coaches in smallbore position shooting.
I've been pushed to dryfire practice by many Master class IDPA and USPSA competitors and teachers.
I've been MADE to dryfire repeatedly by Larry Vickers in a tactical shooting training class.
EVERY shooting coach, and EVERY skills mastery book or course I've ever read heavily emphasizes dryfire practice.
In fact, I'm a little shocked that there's anyone with much experience in the shooting world who doesn't know this by heart.
SwampWolf
Member
I guess we attended different old schools. I've been a pupil for the past 55 years and I was always taught that dry-firing is a time-honored technique for increasing your basic shooting skills. I know I've dropped the hammer on an empty chamber countless of thousands of times with no ill-effect on my shooting skills and actually have found the contrary to be quite the case.
I have to disagree again. The use of snap caps doesn't cause negligent discharges. The non-use of common sense and of following basic firearm handling safety rules does. I use snap caps whenever possible when I'm dry-firing a firearm. And I triple-check the status of the gun before and after every dry-fire session.
BADUNAME37
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There is no definitive answer because some gun manuals tell you it is OK while others tell you only when absolutely necessary and even then, something like snap caps should be used.
I think if you dry fire your weapon once or twice a year to relieve the cocked spring, then fine. Otherwise, invest in snap caps and leave one in the gun.
I use snap caps that do not look like the cartridge/shell they are replacing so there will be NO mixups.
I think if you dry fire your weapon once or twice a year to relieve the cocked spring, then fine. Otherwise, invest in snap caps and leave one in the gun.
I use snap caps that do not look like the cartridge/shell they are replacing so there will be NO mixups.
Johnnyb8612
Member
I have the Ruger SR9c, and I read somewhere that because of the magazine disconnect, you shouldn't dry fire it, because the striker hits that plate when the mag's out. Is this true?
Johnnyb8612
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Sorry, I meant it said you shouldn't dry fire with the mag out. I'm sure it's fine to do it with an empty mag in.
2WheelsGood
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I absolutely agree that there is a lot to be learned with dry-firing. But dry-firing in the context you're talking about here doesn't speak to whether or not to use snap-caps. Dry-firing as you mean it here just means without live rounds. The question of whether to dry-fire on an empty chamber or dry-fire using snap-caps is the actual debate brought up by the OP.
I'm not really responding to you, I'm just using this to point out something that I think clouds the debate. Often you hear people recommending dry-firing for practice, and rightly so. Then you also hear people saying dry-firing is bad, but they're typically using "dry-fire" to mean firing on an empty chamber. They're really two totally different things with the same name, and it makes this age-old debate even more confusing.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Ahhh, I see where that might be confusing. Although, I was responding to the member who said that there was no value in dryfire, which is, of course, absurd.
...
To the question of snap-caps: No, I don't use them. I do have some which get tossed into live mags for "ball-and-dummy" drills, which are another fantastic training aid.
The question of snap-caps renders the entire debate moot. If you're going to use snap-caps, you can dry-fire ANY gun as it isn't really "dry" -- there's still a primer-substitute under the firing pin when it strikes.
To me, "can I dryfire this weapon," presupposes the clause "without snap caps" because the question is pointless otherwise.
2WheelsGood
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Yes, if the question is "can I dry-fire this weapon", the meaning is obvious. But if the question is "should I dry-fire my guns" the question has two answers. Speaking of which, I'm going home tonight to do some dry-firing (on an empty chamber) before the range tomorrow. Actually, my Benelli shotgun hates snap-caps. Jams about half the time.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Ahh, I see. Yes. Gotcha.
Caliper_Mi
Member
ALL hammer fired guns have the hammer directly contact the firing pin. The PF9 is because the firing pin will damage the threads on the extractor spring screw, which also doubles as a firing pin retainer.
The manual states not to dry fire it with the magazine out because the firing pin will eventually hurt the magazine disconnect. Solution is to put an EMPTY mag in or remove the disconnect (I did the latter, but for other reasons). It also only requires a slight pull on the slide to reset the striker, so you can dry fire repeatedly without having to mess with the hold-open.
Caliper_Mi
Member
On the issue of snap caps, I bought a set of six, 9mm Traditions brand caps. After a number of dry fires, the brass "primer" on them is so cratered by firing pin strikes that I really doubt they are doing anything to cushion the firing pin. Is this common with snap caps, or should I look at a different brand?
Was stocking shelves Wednesday. We'd just gotten in some snap caps. All the centerfire models were labeled "snap caps" while the 22lr were labelled "action proving dummy rounds" or something like that.
Just to show that whoever writes the labels is not necessarily a gun person I noticed that in small print on the .22lr "dummy" rounds was the admonition "do not dry fire snap caps".
I guess I'm obligated now to tell my customers that they can buy 22 "snap caps" (which I know are just "dummy" rounds but they shouldn't dry fire them.
Funny.
Just to show that whoever writes the labels is not necessarily a gun person I noticed that in small print on the .22lr "dummy" rounds was the admonition "do not dry fire snap caps".
I guess I'm obligated now to tell my customers that they can buy 22 "snap caps" (which I know are just "dummy" rounds but they shouldn't dry fire them.
Funny.
teumessian_fox
member
What a pompous statement.
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yeti
Member
Kettle, pot???
Pompous or not, the correctness of the statement is not diminished.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
TF said:
I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend, at all. However, the statement that, "dry firing developes 0 skill. it makes 0 sense," is so very, very incorrect that is seems the poster must either be making a joke of some kind which I didn't understand, or must be extremely unfamiliar with the established principles of good shooting practice.
If that is his belief, then so be it. But the fact is his statement is clearly, and demonstrably, false.
I can try to be more polite in how I say it, but it seems intellectually dishonest to let such a misleading statement stand.
Maybe, "If that has been your experience, please let me suggest that you should take advantage of the many books on the subject of shooting skills development, or the advise of many instructors across nearly all shooting disciplines, which will help you to understand how dry-firing is actually a critical step to building expertise in any type of shooting endeavor." It seemed more concise the way I phrased it before, but perhaps that wasn't very respectful of me and I do apologize for any insult, and assure all involved that no such slight was intended.
I dry fire every new gun before shooting it. I want to know what to expect before it's loaded. I will continue dry firing for practice, until I can break the trigger without the sights moving. I still can't do that on my Cougar. Darn single action trigger must be 10 pounds.
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