EDC/CCW: how many rounds do YOU carry?

[bassjam]

There was a story a few years back and about a woman and her kids hiding in the attic from an intruder. If I remember correctly she was on the phone with her husband when the intruder found her. She hit him with all five rounds in her revolver then bluffed the guy into leaving saying she would shoot again.
Not bashing revolver guys, I carry one myself occasionally.

I remember hearing that same story, although I see home protection as different from concealed carry in public. I myself have extra mags loaded for my pistols at home.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Find me a news report where a non LEO victim used up all 5 shots in a revolver and then was killed because he didn't have a reload. Or where a pistol user needed his/her 2nd magazine. I read the "Armed Citizen" every month in my American Rifleman magazine, just about every encounter says the victim shot between 1-3 rounds and then either the perp was killed or ran away. Same with multiple attackers, when they see their buddy shot they typically get the heck out of there!

I feel more than comfortable with 5 shots. Like I said before, if I needed more than that I probably should have been carrying a rifle.

But you do understand the flip side of the coin, right? While reading such accounts provides no illusions as to the potential risk and the fact that some people are assaulted every day, for most of us, it is not a regular occurrence. I don't have to use a firearm to protect myself on a daily basis. In fact, I am almost 35 and have never had to do it. So if I do have to use my gun, it is an anomaly. I have no interest in or use for the average anomaly. No one ever got into a gunfight and wished they had less ammo. An extra magazine or a couple speed loaders is relatively light and provides a little extra assurance should your life and death encounter fall a little beyond the realm of "normal."

There is a saying that in combat, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. So there is always going to be a large crowd, me among them, that thinks it's foolish for any gunfight to be planned down to five rounds. It's better to have extra ammo and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

[bassjam]

But you do understand the flip side of the coin, right? While reading such accounts provides no illusions as to the potential risk and the fact that some people are assaulted every day, for most of us, it is not a regular occurrence. I don't have to use a firearm to protect myself on a daily basis. In fact, I am almost 35 and have never had to do it. So if I do have to use my gun, it is an anomaly. I have no interest in or use for the average anomaly. No one ever got into a gunfight and wished they had less ammo. An extra magazine or a couple speed loaders is relatively light and provides a little extra assurance should your life and death encounter fall a little beyond the realm of "normal."

There is a saying that in combat, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. So there is always going to be a large crowd, me among them, that thinks it's foolish for any gunfight to be planned down to five rounds. It's better to have extra ammo and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Hey I don’t have a problem if you want to carry extra magazines or speed loaders. But you could play that game forever. Is one extra mag enough? What about 2, or 3, or 4? There is always that potential that you might never have enough firepower, and in the end you still have a handgun which is a poor choice for a firefight regardless of the amount of ammo (or caliber).

I think odds are that my 5 shot J-frame or 7 shot LCP will be plenty. I try to be pretty minimalistic as far as what I carry. My wallet is as thin as a pancake. My key ring consists of one single key, my truck key. I have one of the smallest smart phones I you can get. Likewise when I carry, I carry some of the smallest and lightest guns available. Carrying more than that would probably mean I’d end up leaving my holster and gun at home. If figure there’s probably a one in 10 million chance I’ll ever need to use my handgun defensively. There’s probably a one in 500 million chance that I’ll have to use my handgun and won’t have enough ammo. I’m cool with that.

 

[Warp]

Hey I don’t have a problem if you want to carry extra magazines or speed loaders. But you could play that game forever. Is one extra mag enough? What about 2, or 3, or 4? There is always that potential that you might never have enough firepower, and in the end you still have a handgun which is a poor choice for a firefight regardless of the amount of ammo (or caliber).

I think odds are that my 5 shot J-frame or 7 shot LCP will be plenty. I try to be pretty minimalistic as far as what I carry. My wallet is as thin as a pancake. My key ring consists of one single key, my truck key. I have one of the smallest smart phones I you can get. Likewise when I carry, I carry some of the smallest and lightest guns available. Carrying more than that would probably mean I’d end up leaving my holster and gun at home. If figure there’s probably a one in 10 million chance I’ll ever need to use my handgun defensively. There’s probably a one in 500 million chance that I’ll have to use my handgun and won’t have enough ammo. I’m cool with that.

You numbers for probability are probably off by a few orders of magnitude.

 

[bassjam]

I was being generous. You're right, it's probably less likely than I indicated.

 

[Warp]

I was being generous. You're right, it's probably less likely than I indicated.

You may want to take a look at real world facts, stats, data, sometime. An eye opener, it could be.

 

[Winkman822]

It'll either be 46 rounds or 21 rounds depending on gun. It's always a gun plus two spare magazines.

 

[reverseturn]

I think odds are that my 5 shot J-frame or 7 shot LCP will be plenty.


With my low-risk lifestyle, I think 5 in 38 special is sufficient for myself as well. Still I'm thinking of switching from a lightweight snub to a semi-auto. Capacity is not the main issue its more because I've come to detest shooting that snub. Looking at a slightly heavier gun in .380 or a heavier gun in 9mm. More rounds will be a nice bonus.

 

[Warp]

I think odds are that my 5 shot J-frame or 7 shot LCP will be plenty.


With my low-risk lifestyle, I think 5 in 38 special is sufficient for myself as well. Still I'm thinking of switching from a lightweight snub to a semi-auto. Capacity is not the main issue its more because I've come to detest shooting that snub. Looking at a slightly heavier gun in .380 or a heavier gun in 9mm. More rounds will be a nice bonus.

A little tiny (but not necessarily pocket friendly) S&W Shield is quite little and easy to shoot with 8-9 rounds...just sayin'

 

[strambo]

I think odds are that my 5 shot J-frame or 7 shot LCP will be plenty.


With my low-risk lifestyle, I think 5 in 38 special is sufficient for myself as well. Still I'm thinking of switching from a lightweight snub to a semi-auto. Capacity is not the main issue its more because I've come to detest shooting that snub. Looking at a slightly heavier gun in .380 or a heavier gun in 9mm. More rounds will be a nice bonus.

"Risk" is a combination of the probability of something occurring combined with the severity if it occurs. Your statement only speaks to probability, not severity. So, your "low risk" lifestyle makes the probability less than average...yet the severity is unchanged. So, if it never occurs, you have been carrying 5 rounds too much. If it occurs in spite of your low risk lifestyle, you'll have 5 rounds to deal with the same severity threat as anyone else.

Note: I'm just talking about risk and how to logically assess it...I deliberately said nothing pro or negative to the 5 shot snub.

As an example, I have a good career and choose not to violate my company HR policies and carry while working. My risk assessment is that the combined probability of eventually being caught carrying on the job combined with the severity of losing my livelyhood results in a slightly greater overall risk than the much lower probability I'll be assaulted (with deadly force) while at work with the higher severity if it happens of being un-armed. So, in my work case, my carry gun is zero with zero bullets, but I have thought it through and understand the true risk both ways.

To take it a step further, once you identify the hazards and probabilities, you can mitigate risk by taking measures to reduce it. So, awareness and avoidance will lower the probability. Having a weapon would lower the severity (fighting back vs. sitting duck). In my work case, in addition to awareness/avoidance skills I also have extensive H2H training to lower severity.

 

[armoredman]

I had a job once where my boss knew I carried a sidearm, and didn't care as long as I didn't shoot anyone at work. That was a Taurus 38 snub, and it worked perfectly, considering I never once had to use it. The ONLY times I have drawn a sidearm was on duty with an armored carrier, and I was carrying a 9mm Witness with two spare mags. Never a shot fired, so it could also be said I could have carrier zero rounds and been perfectly safe. Every bit of it is hind sight. Where I work now I cannot carry ANY weapons inside with the exception of radio, chemical agents and my Mark 1 Mod 1 brain. I've sprayed more people than I've shot.
BTW, I did actually legally carry a rifle concealed once, in a UTG bag, a vz-58 with one spare mag, 60 rounds of 7.62x39mm. Easy, logical? Nope, it was only to see if it would work or be noticed, and the answer was yes, it can be done, no, it wasn't really noticed, and no, not interested in doing THAT again. Huge PITB. I don't like in an open war zone, so I don't see the real world necessity of it, but again, we have had real world actions where a long gun could have been effective, but the chance I'LL run into one? Hmm. Carry what works for you, practice/train with it, and if this makes you happy, go for it.

 

[Chevelle SS]

5 rounds of 38 special

 

[vba]

Carry a revolver empty with one round in my shirt pocket.

 

[fastbolt]

Still going, huh?

I just got back from a road trip out-of-state for several days. This time around my choice of LEOSA weapons was a CS45 (3.25" .45 ACP subcompact that uses 6-rd mags); one of my 642-1's and my NAA BW 2", with the .22MAG cylinder installed (as an "Onion Field" type weapon). For some recent previous trips I've taken as my "big gun" my 4013TSW, which is a 3.5" compact .40 that uses 9-rd mags, or one of my G26's. The smaller guns carried as options (for varying situations) are usually either a J-frame and/or a LCP.

Considering my last handful of issued pistols (since just before my retirement in '09, to up until at the end of last year, when I resigned my reserve position) were a compact 7+1 .45, a compact 8+1 9mm and then a standard size .40 15+1, I'm not exactly "wedded" to the idea of always, or exclusively, having to carry a "hi-cap" pistol everywhere on my own time (or when I was still actively on-duty, for that matter).

Yes, I'm familiar with a respectable number of on & off-duty shootings that occurred either at my own agency or one of the many other local ones, and have some small familiarity with info received during training of even more shootings ... so it's not like I'm making such decisions regarding my own off-duty (and now retirement) CCW choices just based upon the nightly news or reading articles in gun magazines.

If I didn't mention it in my last post, I've known a number of folks who have experience in both firearms training (including as instructors), and familiarity with shooting incidents, and it's not at all unusual for them to decide that an off-duty weapon which holds 7-9 rounds is sufficient for them for their anticipated off-duty "needs". Still some guys who feel comfortably prepared enough carrying 5-shot snubs, too (although the 6-7 shot subcompact 9's are really working to edge out the formerly ubiquitous 5-shot revolvers among newer cops and shooters).

I still know some older, experienced guys who think their 5-shot snubs are still sufficient enough to be carried against the off chance they may require being prepared to defend themselves against 1 or 2 armed attackers, though.

Sure, there's nothing "wrong" with opting for hi-cap choices and/or carrying larger handguns (including opting for choices among the larger defensive calibers).

However, if someone is trying to compensate for a concern of being lesser skilled and experienced, so they think a bigger magazine capacity or bigger caliber is going to offset their lesser skills and abilities? Perhaps some attention to some further skills development, overall abilities and some more familiarity with shooting their "choice" of equipment might be in order. Maybe.

As a firearms instructor I've had ample opportunity to hear and see lots and lots of personal choices by folks when it comes to off-duty weapons, as well as a fair number of guys & gals who had CCW licenses and attended some training where I was an instructor. It's always well and good for folks to enjoy explaining and "justifying" their choices for concealed handguns, whether it be for off-duty of CCW usage, and there's never any particular shortage of opinions and reasoning offered.

However, for training and practice purposes it always comes down to being able to demonstrate using those choices safely, effectively, accurately and controllably, out on the firing line.

The ability to put timely and sufficiently numbered holes (depending on the scenario involved) in the intended "threat" targets doesn't equivocate. Misses of the intended threat target, and holes in "non-shoot" (judgment) targets, are shooter problems.

For some folks, having hi-cap mags seems to mean the opportunity for might what might charitably be described as "hi-cap misses".

Equipment can be cool. No doubt. It sells equipment (and advertising in gun magazines, blogs, etc).

A skilled and experienced user is arguably cooler.

 

[strambo]

My "hi-cap" gun is a byproduct of it being a full-size gun that is easy to shoot well. The extra capacity is just a bonus...

Offhand, I have never heard of anyone opining that they carry a certain caliber or capacity due to lack of training or to offset skill. Sadly, the CCW reality is most people don't have the training and are also carrying small guns that are harder to shoot well. Bad combo IMHO.

 

[SonofGilnockie89]

You'll find wildly different opinions on this issue. Some guys would feel fine with a single shot derringer and others carry more gear than a Swat officer and still go about their daily lives hyper paranoid that they're under equipped.
One friend of mine from high school carries a Sig P220 in .45 with FOUR spare mags, a snubbie .357 in an ankle holster, a folding knife, and literally will not leave his house without his Mossberg 500 in the car along with one of those dorky ammo holding slings full of slugs and buckshot.

As for me If I'm carrying the Glock then I normally have 1-2 extra mags. For me it's more a case of knowing that mags tend to fail at bad times rather than feeling like I'll need nearly 50 rounds to survive a trip downtown. If I'm carrying the TCP then it's just what the gun holds. I figure if it's hitting the fan bad enough that I need dramatically more firepower than either of those setups then there will probably be weapons lying on the ground by that point.

 

[SonofGilnockie89]

Still going, huh?

A skilled and experienced user is arguably cooler.

This. Training and situational awareness overrule gear any day. My Systema training is far better than any gun I would carry.

 

[fastbolt]

...
Offhand, I have never heard of anyone opining that they carry a certain caliber or capacity due to lack of training or to offset skill. Bad combo IMHO.

It's usually some variation of someone stating they want to offset some percentage of misses they believe may occur.

On internet forums it's not uncommon for some folks to reference some "statistics" regarding the "average number of misses" when LE shootings occur, and some even explain how they want more capacity to hopefully offset such an occurrence if they should become involved in a shooting incident.

... Sadly, the CCW reality is most people don't have the training and are also carrying small guns that are harder to shoot well.

Yes. More's the pity.

 

[Warp]

It's usually some variation of someone stating they want to offset some percentage of misses they believe may occur.

On internet forums it's not uncommon for some folks to reference some "statistics" regarding the "average number of misses" when LE shootings occur, and some even explain how they want more capacity to hopefully offset such an occurrence if they should become involved in a shooting incident.

Then there are the guys who think they are living in a Hollywood movie and are so good they will literally never miss, even in a life or death situation in which they are moving and their attacker is moving and they are injured, because by golly, every other person out there just sucks but they are God. Gotta love the internet

 

[Hardtarget]

I got my carry permit about 16 years ago. I've never had to shoot my weapon. I always have a reload...one six round mag. I think I've just been lucky that I've not been in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I survive the first encounter I'm sure I'll rethink my choices for carry weapon.

Mark

 

[Old Dog]

Having had the benefit of some (what I consider) pretty doggone good training (courtesy of my federal, state and local governments as well as the disposable income the wife lets me use flying all over the country to attend classes) over the years while working hard to develop what I feel is a pretty solid skill-set, I will say I just might miss the target on a shot or two, therefore, I am gonna pack some extra rounds ... But then, I've found that guys who've actually been downrange understand this a bit more than some others do ... I also keep a fire extinguisher, blankets, spare clothes and food in my truck even when traveling around town.

 

[tsieger]

I'll echo the sentiment of LoneGoose. The majority of encounters are ended in a few shots. It's highly unlikely you're going to run into a gang of outlaws (aside from the south-side of Chicago). Or have to fight off a horde of zombies. I carry 11 rounds total. 6 in the gun + 1 extra mag. Or my 5-shot revolver. Hopefully I'll never have to test those out though.

 

[edmo01]

So far I've lugged around a gun for all of these years and thankfully I haven't needed it and ZERO rounds have been required. I hope it stays that way. However...

I always carry a speed strip when carrying a J-frame. Why? Speed strips weigh nothing and take up so little room. They are just so easy to carry, why not have one?

Although not as easy as a speed strip, I always carry a spare magazine when carrying a pistol.

My spare magazine is for malfunction remediation or an inadvertent release of the primary magazine.

Magazines are often the cause of malfunctions, so dump the bad one and move on.

If the magazine release is accidentally depressed, grabbing a spare off my body is easier than chasing the loose magazine skittering across the floor.

As an added bonus I have extra rounds with me.

Edmo

 

[Legionnaire]

Interesting thread. I always carry one reload, so number of rounds depends on the gun. Low end would be 10; 5 in a snub revolver plus one speed strip. High end would be 26; G23 with a spare mag.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

I think odds are that my 5 shot J-frame or 7 shot LCP will be plenty.


With my low-risk lifestyle, I think 5 in 38 special is sufficient for myself as well. Still I'm thinking of switching from a lightweight snub to a semi-auto. Capacity is not the main issue its more because I've come to detest shooting that snub. Looking at a slightly heavier gun in .380 or a heavier gun in 9mm. More rounds will be a nice bonus.

I'm relatively new to carrying a gun. I started circa 2013. Now I'm hooked, I feel naked without my EDC. All that said, it really comes down to what you are most comfortable with IMHO. If you can shoot a wheel gun very effectively, and without "thinking", that is, it's so natural that you are just fluid, then carry that wheel gun. I'm younger, I'm not a wheel gun guy (although I want to buy a Freedom Arms gun, because, I can, lol) I'm all for the guys who carry the wheel guns. Big stopping power, reliability, wisdom and knowledge, along with training and comfort, yah, I can appreciate all of that...