- Joined
- Jan 28, 2003
- Messages
- 13,341
I am not trying to school or lecture anybody here. I am simply proclaiming what my definition of "enough" gun is.
The answer is it depends on the circumstances, the terrain, and conditions you are hunting in and of course what animals you are likely to encounter in the area you are hunting.
With that in mind here are my thoughts based on my experiences. Lets also keep in mind that I am talking about "Enough" which to my mind means more than adequate it means plenty of gun to provide a level of comfort and confidence. Adequate in my mind simply means that it is capable of doing the job if everything goes well.
1. In dangerous game country where close range elephant attacks are a real possibility such as the jesse bush of the Zambezi Valley or tropical rainforest/jungles or the long grass. Pretty much anywhere wild free ranging dangerous game hunting is conducted in sub Saharan Africa.
Your rifle, caliber and bullet combination should be sufficient to fully penetrate a large bull elephants skull from a frontal brain shot IE be able to stop a charge from close range. In addition your caliber choice should be heavy enough to turn that charge if your bullet does no find the brain of the elephant. Not a guarantee but possible with the right bullet and caliber combo.
With that in mind the rifle should be set up for fast handling with either a low power optic or good fast acquiring iron sights such as a shallow V and bead or better yet a good ghost ring set up with a large aperture and a white line square front post. You should be inanimately familiar with the rifle and able to shoot reload and operate the rifle without looking at it while on the run.
With the advent of really good modern bullets we have a wider selection of caliber choices now days HOWEVER in wild elephant country there is no substitute for a heavy large caliber bullet. My choice for a minimum comfort level in these specialized conditions are one of the various African specific.416's and up with a preference to the various .458's, .470's and if I was making a career of it in those conditions I'd be carrying a .500 NE double or a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs in a bolt gun. Once you step up to the .500's there is markedly and drastic difference in how a big game animal such as an elephant reacts to being hit as compared to even a .470 or a .458.
Bell and countless elephant culling agents have proven that in the right hands with proper experience and numerous kills a 7x57 or a .308 with proper solids is an adequate tool for killing multiple elephants. I am not that guy and I will never be that guy. I, like most professional hunters I know like to have a bit more safety pad thus the larger heavier calibers for elephant.
2. Hunting areas that have dangerous game up to and including cape buffalo and big cats but no elephant. A .375H&H'ish power level gun with quality controlled expansion bullets is just fine with me.
3. Hunting in Alaska in big bear country, such as the Alaska Peninsula. To me enough gun in those areas is something in the .338 WM, .375H&H range and even one of the various .416's with good bullets isn't over doing it. I want something that is going to leave an impression on a mature bear at close range if the need arises. Up North in the tundra or inland grizz country a .30 cal such as a .30-06'ish level caliber with 180 gr or heavier controlled expansion style bullets works for me.
4. In the Lower 48 for elk it simply depends on your style of hunting. Adequate depends on your style of hunting. Enough gun however, to meet my definition should be able to get the job done under any circumstances including longish range say out to 300 yards but more importantly it should be able to get the job done comfortably in the thick stuff at close range too where a snap shot is a real possibility. And if you are hunting in those conditions where a snap shot is a possibility you need a round that is going to reliably penetrate to the vitals from less than perfect shot angles.In those conditions a .338, .35 Whelen, 9.3, or a .375 become a very useful tool and have enough penetration and momentum to reliably get the job done.
If your style is to glass and spot and shoot at longer ranges as is becoming popular, the caliber choices above aren't best choices. That is a specialized type of hunting that takes specialized gear and is the polar opposite of the way I like to hunt elk. While I enjoy having the skill and ability to make long shots it isn't the reason I hunt and I don't purposely strive to do so like we see so often on the hunting shows now days.
5. Deer hunting, once again it simply depends on how you like to hunt or are able to hunt as defined by your local circumstances. If you hunt deer primarily like I do which is in big wide open country you'll like something that has some reach and ability to provide a clean kill when it gets there. My deer hunting rigs trend to be something in the .270 to .308 diameter range and capable of making clean kills to about 400 yards as a maximum. the .270 or the .30-06 are plenty enough gun for deer under those circumstances. As would be many choices such as the 6.5 MM's, 7mm's you name it ther is a large list in this category. IMO the .243 is starting to get on the skinny side past 300 yards on deer HOWEVER lots of folks use it with no issues. It's just not my choice especially for big bodied western mule deer. Is the .243 an adequate deer round? You bet it is! But as per my earlier definition it doesn't qualify for "enough" gun under all circumstances for my purposes.
Now hunting from a stand/over a bait/overlooking a field IE "stand hunting" in general with known distances and a lot of time to pick your shots and wait for the perfect shot? That widens the field considerably and brings my comfort level way down in caliber. This is a situation depending on the conditions such as closer range and if it is legal, that I have no problem using a .22 center fire such as a .223 for deer. It is a simple function of having some control over your shot opportunity environment. And stand hunting is about the most controlled environment you'll encounter while hunting.
The answer is it depends on the circumstances, the terrain, and conditions you are hunting in and of course what animals you are likely to encounter in the area you are hunting.
With that in mind here are my thoughts based on my experiences. Lets also keep in mind that I am talking about "Enough" which to my mind means more than adequate it means plenty of gun to provide a level of comfort and confidence. Adequate in my mind simply means that it is capable of doing the job if everything goes well.
1. In dangerous game country where close range elephant attacks are a real possibility such as the jesse bush of the Zambezi Valley or tropical rainforest/jungles or the long grass. Pretty much anywhere wild free ranging dangerous game hunting is conducted in sub Saharan Africa.
Your rifle, caliber and bullet combination should be sufficient to fully penetrate a large bull elephants skull from a frontal brain shot IE be able to stop a charge from close range. In addition your caliber choice should be heavy enough to turn that charge if your bullet does no find the brain of the elephant. Not a guarantee but possible with the right bullet and caliber combo.
With that in mind the rifle should be set up for fast handling with either a low power optic or good fast acquiring iron sights such as a shallow V and bead or better yet a good ghost ring set up with a large aperture and a white line square front post. You should be inanimately familiar with the rifle and able to shoot reload and operate the rifle without looking at it while on the run.
With the advent of really good modern bullets we have a wider selection of caliber choices now days HOWEVER in wild elephant country there is no substitute for a heavy large caliber bullet. My choice for a minimum comfort level in these specialized conditions are one of the various African specific.416's and up with a preference to the various .458's, .470's and if I was making a career of it in those conditions I'd be carrying a .500 NE double or a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs in a bolt gun. Once you step up to the .500's there is markedly and drastic difference in how a big game animal such as an elephant reacts to being hit as compared to even a .470 or a .458.
Bell and countless elephant culling agents have proven that in the right hands with proper experience and numerous kills a 7x57 or a .308 with proper solids is an adequate tool for killing multiple elephants. I am not that guy and I will never be that guy. I, like most professional hunters I know like to have a bit more safety pad thus the larger heavier calibers for elephant.
2. Hunting areas that have dangerous game up to and including cape buffalo and big cats but no elephant. A .375H&H'ish power level gun with quality controlled expansion bullets is just fine with me.
3. Hunting in Alaska in big bear country, such as the Alaska Peninsula. To me enough gun in those areas is something in the .338 WM, .375H&H range and even one of the various .416's with good bullets isn't over doing it. I want something that is going to leave an impression on a mature bear at close range if the need arises. Up North in the tundra or inland grizz country a .30 cal such as a .30-06'ish level caliber with 180 gr or heavier controlled expansion style bullets works for me.
4. In the Lower 48 for elk it simply depends on your style of hunting. Adequate depends on your style of hunting. Enough gun however, to meet my definition should be able to get the job done under any circumstances including longish range say out to 300 yards but more importantly it should be able to get the job done comfortably in the thick stuff at close range too where a snap shot is a real possibility. And if you are hunting in those conditions where a snap shot is a possibility you need a round that is going to reliably penetrate to the vitals from less than perfect shot angles.In those conditions a .338, .35 Whelen, 9.3, or a .375 become a very useful tool and have enough penetration and momentum to reliably get the job done.
If your style is to glass and spot and shoot at longer ranges as is becoming popular, the caliber choices above aren't best choices. That is a specialized type of hunting that takes specialized gear and is the polar opposite of the way I like to hunt elk. While I enjoy having the skill and ability to make long shots it isn't the reason I hunt and I don't purposely strive to do so like we see so often on the hunting shows now days.
5. Deer hunting, once again it simply depends on how you like to hunt or are able to hunt as defined by your local circumstances. If you hunt deer primarily like I do which is in big wide open country you'll like something that has some reach and ability to provide a clean kill when it gets there. My deer hunting rigs trend to be something in the .270 to .308 diameter range and capable of making clean kills to about 400 yards as a maximum. the .270 or the .30-06 are plenty enough gun for deer under those circumstances. As would be many choices such as the 6.5 MM's, 7mm's you name it ther is a large list in this category. IMO the .243 is starting to get on the skinny side past 300 yards on deer HOWEVER lots of folks use it with no issues. It's just not my choice especially for big bodied western mule deer. Is the .243 an adequate deer round? You bet it is! But as per my earlier definition it doesn't qualify for "enough" gun under all circumstances for my purposes.
Now hunting from a stand/over a bait/overlooking a field IE "stand hunting" in general with known distances and a lot of time to pick your shots and wait for the perfect shot? That widens the field considerably and brings my comfort level way down in caliber. This is a situation depending on the conditions such as closer range and if it is legal, that I have no problem using a .22 center fire such as a .223 for deer. It is a simple function of having some control over your shot opportunity environment. And stand hunting is about the most controlled environment you'll encounter while hunting.
