Et tu, Kershaw?

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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

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I'm once again a sad panda after seeing on Friday that Kershaw now has an expansive Chinese-made junk lineup that dilutes their good name. Looks like they are slowly going the way of Gerber. I HATE it when companies do this - when they abandon quality for the almighty dollar in ANY products in any of their lines, they remove our confidence that anything you get with that brand is quality, just by looking at the name. As much as I love(d) Kershaws, I don't think I will be buying any more, because now they are not trustworthy. Sigh... Fortunately, there are plenty of of other good brands even on a budget.
 
any particular company announcements on friday or just a realization you came to? Just wondering if there's anything in particular that happened recently. thanks.
 
Have you actually seen, or seen reports from reliable sources that the new knives are junk? Spyderco now has a single Chinese (PRC) made offering (and has a whole line of Crow-labeled PRC knives). The new Tenacious is considered a bargain by the vast majority of those who've tried them.

John
 
Love the Spyderco/Byrd line, but the OP has a point. Spyderco pretty much separated the two by calling it the Byrd line. You still know that the two are different. Is Kershaw going to clearly define the two for the benefit of those who aren't knife people?
 
Long time fan of USA and Irish Scrades. When they went under I went looking for
The other Good Brands
Been on a spyderco binge lately.The tenacious is a fantanstic knife - 8cr13MoV very sharp out the box and and only a little bit of work to make it scary shaving sharp.

The native is even better in s30v

Biggest disapointment was a white Endura ( Supposed to be a limited sprint run) a well made knive from Seki city Japan in VG-10 Just barely sharp out the box and being a hard steel took me a long time to get right - it will now shave hair!
 
This assumption that any and all things made in China are junk is just nonsense. Yeah, our trade balance suffers, and yeah, an American is not working to make this product (except processing/transporting/delivering it), but I have several excellent Chinese manufactured products. If Kershaw has moved some of its production off-shore, it likely did so to remain competitive and in business. I'll still buy their knives until I get one that is below the standards they normally offer.
 
PS,

While experience has taught American knife buyers to be wary of changes in nation of manufacturing, this lamentation has been the same throughout time.

Knives made in Japan instead of the US? The quality originally was junk, but eventually improved to the point of being the equal of anything made here. Can we say Seki?

Taiwan? Junk to good in under 20 years. It took American manufacturers working with them the past 10 years to turn knives you'd turn your nose up at into knives you'd not think a thing of purchasing.

PRC? Junk to good in under 5. Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, etc. The Germans taught them to heat treat, we're teaching them quality control. The knives coming from the PRC where the manufacturer sits on the factory and makes sure of the quality still can be sold for less than they could afford to be made here.

It's an old story, but the ending is probably going to be the same. Junk to good. Just know who's producing the good and avoid the junk.
 
Well, ok, maybe they're not junk - may have jumped the gun - more research is in order. :)

But it's one of the things I'd always liked about Kershaws, being American-made.
 
I know what you are saying, but sometimes foreign made products really are better. There was a time when the Fender Musical Instrument Corp. was in such a state of disarray (this was during and after they were acquired and sold by CBS) that the instruments that they were turning out were bad enough that the company basically stopped building Strats in the US for a period of time in favor of Japanese-made guitars.

You see, the Japanese (who are quite guitar-crazy) had by this time perfected the art of copying instruments. So well, that many of those copies were actually preferred over their "real" counterparts. A little known fact is that the guitar that Stevie Ray Vaughan is posing with on the cover art for "Texas Flood" was NOT a Fender strat. It was a Tokai copy. Gibson actually sued Ibanez in order to make them stop making Flying V copies, and like the Tokai strats, those are pretty good guitars.

There was a point where Japanese guitars were almost uniformly crap. But they wised up and realized that there was more money to be made turning out quality products, even if there were unauthorized copies of American products. Now, Japan has several manufacturers (including Ibanez) that turn out original instruments of high quality, and all do very well. Fender, incidentally, has moved their business to Mexico for their lower priced Strats and Teles and whatnot. American Strats are available and good, and this has been true for a couple of decades now.

The point to this story is that the bulk of the stuff coming out of China at this moment is crap, but I firmly believe that this will change, particularly when the US companies start demanding better quality for their dollar. I am not saying that we should all hug and embrace chinese products, but I am saying that they will get better, and will likely have a reputation for quality and value sooner rather than later.

That being said, one of the two main reasons I want a Native so bad is because it is USA made.
 
PS,

While experience has taught American knife buyers to be wary of changes in nation of manufacturing, this lamentation has been the same throughout time.

Knives made in Japan instead of the US? The quality originally was junk, but eventually improved to the point of being the equal of anything made here. Can we say Seki?

Taiwan? Junk to good in under 20 years. It took American manufacturers working with them the past 10 years to turn knives you'd turn your nose up at into knives you'd not think a thing of purchasing.

PRC? Junk to good in under 5. Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, etc. The Germans taught them to heat treat, we're teaching them quality control. The knives coming from the PRC where the manufacturer sits on the factory and makes sure of the quality still can be sold for less than they could afford to be made here.

It's an old story, but the ending is probably going to be the same. Junk to good. Just know who's producing the good and avoid the junk.
__________________
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I don't care how good they get If it was made in the U.S.A.and is moved to prc I won't buy it period . I am not against something originally made oversea I carry a sak all the time. I am tired of campanies taking American jobs to save a couple pennies. also you don't see that savings passed on to us do you?
Roy
 
No opinion really on the issue (although I don't see it as an "improvement" for the consumer), but this is an awfully witty title.

You know, the idea of being stabbed in the back by a knife manufacturer...ya know...
 
also you don't see that savings passed on to us do you?
Click to expand...

In general terms, yes, I do see those saving passed on to me. How much would a US-made Tenacious cost? Probably not drastically more, but still more. Using a different example. Toyotas were generally cheaper back when they were imported than they are now. We have a higher cost of labor, and so we have a higher end cost. Using Fender as an example, again, there is a reason that Mexican Strats are fully $700.00 cheaper than American ones. There are some differences in quality, but not $700.00 worth.


I am tired of campanies taking American jobs to save a couple pennies.
Click to expand...

Nobody is taking jobs from America. Companies move jobs to increase profits, and this is exactly what free enterprise is all about. Those jobs that the companies move are in no way guaranteed or inherently deserved by Americans. That I am aware of, there are no laws that mandate that American companies must provide jobs, in America, for American citizens. Particularly in the case of publically-owned companies, the first obligation of the business is to it's shareholders. As such, whatever earns those shareholders the most is the option that they will take.

The flip side to that, of course, is that you have the option to buy or not buy from any company on whatever basis works for you. You also can choose to invest, or not, in companies based on whatever things you feel fit best with your ideologies.
 
Nobody is taking jobs from America. Companies move jobs to increase profits, and this is exactly what free enterprise is all about. Those jobs that the companies move are in no way guaranteed or inherently deserved by Americans. That I am aware of, there are no laws that mandate that American companies must provide jobs, in America, for American citizens. Particularly in the case of publically-owned companies, the first obligation of the business is to it's shareholders. As such, whatever earns those shareholders the most is the option that they will take.

The flip side to that, of course, is that you have the option to buy or not buy from any company on whatever basis works for you. You also can choose to invest, or not, in companies based on whatever things you feel fit best with your ideologies.
Click to expand...

I think we need a single word that has this as its definition and can be used as the only word in a complete sentence. It would make this kind of discussion so much simpler. :evil:
 
I think we need a single word that has this as its definition and can be used as the only word in a complete sentence. It would make this kind of discussion so much simpler.
Click to expand...

I think I know exactly what word you are thinking of, but am I wrong? Do Microsoft, Ford, Cisco, or any other large corporation that you can think of have any legal, or even ethical, obligation to keep jobs in America if it negatively effects the bottom line? Are they somehow evil for making money for their many, many investors? Is it right to imply that they should have that obligation? Unions (of which I am generally supportive) have done that and shot themselves in the foot on more than one occasion. Like it or not, we are a capitalist country, and capitalism at the corporate level shows no patriotism.

You can argue (possibly correctly) that they are evil on a whole lot of different fronts, but they aren't moving jobs to save "pennies", unless you are so fantastically wealthy that millions, if not billions, of dollars of profit are pocket change to you. If you are that wealthy, well, I guess I defer to your opinion.

As I said before, with that in mind, we are free to spend and invest our money as we wish. If you choose to spend your money on the daily advice of your biorhythms, more power to you. If your ideologies are such that buying American is important to you, I am not saying you are wrong to do so. I don't personally care what methods you use to decide from whom to buy what. I am just saying that I disagree that other countries are somehow sneaking into America like thieves in the night and stealing American jobs, and that I disagree that American business has any obligation to keep those jobs here.
 
China made stuff isn't always junk, alot of time it is, but not all of the time.

I tend to agree with the OP that stuff made in China is of inferior quality... but, (there is always a but) I just bought a CRKT Laredo made in China, it is very well made. Nice and tight, not a bit of wiggle, not a machine mark to be found, blade is extremely sharp. When I first looked at it, I was leery of it being made in China, but this particular knife is signed by the man who designed it, Ron Lake. Now when I say signed, I really mean that he "signed" it with an engraving tool. The knife even says on the blade, Lake Design.

This is my first CRKT knife and I am impressed, while maybe not up to the level of a Seki Sypderco, it is a really nice knife. So perhaps if the company that designs and sells the products does their part, quality control and such, it appears that you can get a quality knife from China. YMMV

Now that being said, if there were two knives I was interested in and the prices were comparable... I would give the knife made in The USA preference over the Chinese made knife. I would rather support American Workers and American Companies, then the People's Republic of China, which I have no doubt is our enemy and at some point would like to see the United States dethroned as the worlds lone SuperPower. Lest someone say I am biased or a racist or some other bologna along those lines... my wife was "made" in China, Hong Kong to be exact, although she isn't Chinese, she is India Indian. So my point of view isn't biased against anyone, its just the way I feel about the government of China.

Well its late and I think I am rambling, so I better go to bed while I can still see. That is my .02

Little John


After reading some more of the posts, probably should have done that before I posted a reply... duh, but anyhow I digress. hso who does own Kershaw? I have the Kershaw blade trader and I believe its made in China. I was a little disappointed when I noticed that, but it was an excellent buy when I bought it at the local Bi Mart (Small Northwest Department store chain).
 
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I'd also like to add that ,since I still have a choice, I buy and carry USA made knives. With the exception of two vintage German made Bokers.

I don't really have a problem with companies that have offshore products in their line,it allows them to stay in buisness.The majority of knife buyers are not like most of us.They don't care about steel type,scale material,or point of origin. They only want it to cut stuff for low cost. And the quality is getting better.

If a offshore line keeps Kershaw,Spyderco,or Buck in buisness GREAT!!.
As long as they still offer USA made product for people who do still care.

I don't want them added to the list of Camillus,Utica,Ulster,Schrade,Imperial,
and many many others.
 
The "cost of labor" excuse is the biggest lie going The reason they go off shore is: Number one, they can dump the proccess chemicals in the ditch out back. Number two they can do what ever it takes to get the job done without concern for safety .
I think I know exactly what word you are thinking of, but am I wrong? Do Microsoft, Ford, Cisco, or any other large corporation that you can think of have any legal, or even ethical, obligation to keep jobs in America if it
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Legal? no Ethical ? yes,the majority of their busness where built by Americans spending U.S. dollars to buy their products and Americans producing their products (or designing it with software) then to move off shore to save a fews pennies per peice in my book is unethical. we are not the only coutry with this happening take a look at the new abu garcia reels they are now made in china not Sweden
Roy
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF1w2GAvBrI
Some of that good china stuff
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No, some of that typical cheap China junk.

The point is that you can get good as well as junk from companies that use Chinese factories, but you better know the difference before you plunk down your hard earned money. It is as unrealistic to think everything coming from Chinese knife factories is as good as US as it is to think that everything coming from them is junk (any more).
 
Timbo, I was agreeing with you. My point was that your (apt) closing statements tend to get repeated a lot, and they also tend to end discussions like these because, well, you're right.

I didn't have a specific word in mind, but even an abbreviation would do...kind of like some people say "RTFM."

CHNOKJICSSC.YHHEOVWYD

Corporations have no obligation to keep jobs in the country, so stop complaining. You, however, have every obligation to vote with your dollar.
 
Im not hso but Kershaw is owned by Kai Corp,a Japanese firm.
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a Japanese company building stuff in the USA..who woulda thunk it ? ;)

I was waiting for someone to point this out to the thread starter.

Just like Buck , Benchmade and Spyderco ; Kershaw wants to have knives that hit all price points. Know what is produced where and buy what you like.

I am a big fan of Kershaw's knives.
 
Just like the Finns bought out Peter Gerber, the Japanese bought Kershaw from Pete Kershaw (what is it with the guys named Pete that are tied to Gerber? ;)).
 
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