Gun Shops VS Mattress Strores (mild rant)

[abaddon]

As a newbie shopping around for my first gun I haven't noticed this in my area. I think the place with the best customer service was actually the Marksman in Tacoma (yeah the one that Mohammed and Malvo got the Bushmaster from). The guy who I talked to the first time I went in was really nice and really helped me out with my questions. I keep going in to see if they have any used guns and he's always really nice and friendly, answering my questions no problem. They also have the best selection in the area.

Jeff

 

[S_O_Laban]

Don's post brings up a good point, one I learned working as a car mechanic, some people you can't afford to have as customers. But I don't think that is most peoples complaint. It's the owners who run you off before even finding out what type of person you are, and those that run off people who in spite of poor service still spend money there on occasion It's this type of stupidity that has me wondering just what "is" going on at a shop??

 

[Don Gwinn]

Gun stores, however, get 10 yahoos an hour who are just kids with no money, or otherwise just people who are interested in looking, handling, and generally using (wasting) the time of the clerks, but who have no intention or wherewithal to buy.

True. In the car industry, though, you get a bunch of these as well. They're called "strokes" and there's a reason why there's a name for 'em. However, what a lot of people don't realize is that customer service is not even really that great in the auto industry. Next time you shop, really pay attention to the treatment and not just the vehicles, and if you go to a salesman who doesn't already know you well, chances are he's being borderline rude.

Car salesmen are pushed, on the one hand, to greet everyone they can and be enthusiastic, positive, and friendly. However, they're also constantly reminded to dump anyone who seems to be a stroke and qualify customers financially. At the dealership where I worked, they made a big deal out of the "Pre-Appraisal." In theory, this was the practice of leaving your trade keys and short description with the sales manager as you took a test drive so that you could get fast answers about trade-in values and not be inconvenienced.
In fact, it was designed to give the salesman an excuse to ask politely if you were upside down in debt on your old car, which told the manager whether it was worth it to try to work a deal. It was absolutely nothing but a way to move non-buyers out the door that much faster so you could get on with the business of finding a buyer.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

An honest question:

If a store is open for ten hours and has a choice of:

a. one sale with a $600 profit and 19 "strokes" or
b. twenty sales @$30 profit each and zero "strokes" or
c. 10 sales totalling $600 (4@$30, 1@$100, 1@200, 1@50, 3@10) profit and ten "strokes"

what's the difference? Notice I did NOT specify mattresses, cars, computer parts or firearms - or the margin! If you're only gonna get 20 customers in that 10-hour day and you're looking to make that $600 ON EACH AND EVERY CUSTOMER, you're not going to be in business very long.

I can go to Wal-Mart and browse long guns and pick up some value pack ammo AND my wife shops for toys or clothes or cleaning supplies.
I can go to a sporting goods store and browse guns, purchase CLP and speedloaders AND my buddies shop for boating gear and my nephew shops for basketball shoes.
I can go to a gun store and browse guns (and occasionally buy one), buy ammo and other accessories AND my non-shooting friends stay home. Oops!

From 1996-1999 the difference between customer price and employee price for a computer or monitor was ~3% or less at Best Buy (base 5% margin). The real profit was from cables, software, inkjet cartridges, specialized paper and extended warranties - and installation/setup. Of course, there'd be the occasional "I can buy that via mailorder or internet for cheaper (until you'd add shipping)" but we'd also cut deals on complete packages (like take a loss on the computer in order to cinch the warranty, or "free" installation subsidized by the manufacturer).

 

[sturmruger]

I came across this post from a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it so much I thought I would resurrect it.

 

[SShooterZ]

Where in NW WI is this?

I have a cottage just west of Spooner.

 

[Manedwolf]

My last trip was to a local gun shop here in SE Iowa. I have lived in this area for 2+ years, and I have been into this shop at least 20 times. I have spent money about half the time usually on accessories and ammo. I have bought one gun a used Ruger MK-1. Every time I have ever entered the shop the most I have ever received in greeting is a gruff Hello. He has never bothered to learn my first name. Any time I have asked to look at a gun behind the counter the guy sighs and slowly gets up off his stool. The whole time I am examining the gun he just stands there saying nothing. He doesn’t tell me anything about how it works, where he got, what he thinks or anything. After I hand it back to him he will go back and sit down on his stool and look bored. The whole time I am in the store looking at accessories I feel like he is expecting me to stuff a bunch of scope rings down my pants and make a run for it. The few times I have asked have asked for a better deal he has never counter offered. Last month I asked if I could exchange a forend that I bought for my Mossberg 500, for some ammo. He told me flat out “NO†I left mad and will never go back.

Why do you still go to that store? I went in one store once locally with an obnoxious owner, the shyster-salesman type. And just to test, I played dumb, and he tried to sell me a $3 box of S&B 00 buck for $15. I never went back.

The one I go to now has a number of counters and salespeople, is always busy with browsing shoppers, and all you have to do is get a salesperson's attention to get a true retail "Can I help you?"...and if you want to see a gun, they'll pass it over, wait patiently while you mess with it, and answer any questions you might have.

 

[Correia]

An old thread, but a good one. Threads like this are one of the reasons I was motivated to open my own gunstore and try to not suck.

jsalcedo, I know it was years ago, and you were corrected, but I still laugh at the $275 dealer cost Glock. Man, I wish.

 

[Tomcat1066]

This thread made me realize how lucky I am with the local gunstore I go to

Great service. The first time I went in I told them straight out that I was only looking. I still got great treatment. They realized that by looking today, I was shopping for tomorrow. The only other place I'll go to look at guns are pawn shops, since the gunstore doesn't do used weapons.

I love good customer service

Tom

 

[Essex County]

I've spent roughly the same amount of time in retail firearms and managing a High volume furniture store ( about ten years ). As everyone has said the'res a lot more markup in furniture than guns. When you consider that a matress wil be purchased once evry ten years , sometimes longer for a living room set and the national average is something like 1.8 times in a lifetime for a bedroom set perspective changes........No one in a competitive market gets list price for furniture. If they did they shouldn't be able to sleep at night. Freight is a killer along with the usual expenses. Let's compare 20 thousand sq. feet of retail space vs. what a gunshop takes. I feel that a lot of Gun Shops are not run by the best people. If the salesfolk have the product knowledge, they may not be capeable of dealing with the public. I'd like a buck for everyone that goes to a particular Gun Shop to make a purchase and goes home empty handed because something turned them off...........Essex

 

[svtruth]

I may have to move,

because my LGS is always helpful and cheerful. They know my name, will write down and keep an eye out for a particular gun if I ask, are happy to let me hold the display guns, always take something off the listed price, and sold me 100 rnds of WWB, .357 for $25.00.
OTOH, a local furniture store advertises that you can buy stuff now and not have to pay for 18 mos. That must be some mark up.

 

[silverlance]

hm

my personal experience:

here in cali, lots of sh*** gun shops. I once paid a store to calibrate the scope on my old ruger 10/22, my very first gun, when i was 18. took it out ot the range, wouldn't hit even close to middle with a benchrest at 25 yards. so i took it back. immediately the jerk starts yelling and cussing about how i'm an idiot who doesn't know anything (true) and how i'm asking dumb questions (probably true) and demanding the impossible (who knows).

I never went back, and they soon went out of business after the police closed them down for doing illegal gun sales.

now i understand these guys are under a lot of stress, but they could have done a LOT better if they had 1: avoided the straw sales rack 2: been much more outgoing.

come to think of it, gun shops here in cali hardly ever advertise, or do anything to help themselves. 99% don't even have web sites. and that's cheap.

at turner's outdoorsman, however, it's a totally different world. i've spent over 5000 this year at turners, and i never mind the markup.

 

[hotpig]

I read a post here on THR that a new Glock costs around $70 to make
all things considered, labor, materials overhead.

Glock then wants a profit so they sell to a dealer for ??? $275

The dealer has to pay the bills so he marks it up to $550

Or the pawnshop buys an unfired glock from joe blow for $75 (not making this up)

The same gun is on display the next day for $475

The cost of doing business is very high in the gun arena I suppose.

You are way off base if you think Dealer price on a Glock is even in that ballpark. I would retire early from the Fire Department and sell guns full time if there was that much money to be made.

 

[HD]

longago/far away , i worked in a gunshop where the owner was a greedy -------- , the customers couldn't stand him , they would come to me or wait for me to help them ...
used to drive him nuts , all he wanted was the $$$$ (brooklyn pawnshop owner)
i sold more stuff than all the other shabbas goyim combined cause i would talk to the people as long as they wanted info or ideas for their next purchase , some would actually bring in their paychecks and 'what should i get today?' while signing over the check to us ...
hell , they wouldn't even let the owner wait on them he was such a greedhog...
i still meet people 25 years later who remember what they bought from me ...
its about the people , and treating them right even if they are so ignorant it hurts to be around them , i sold enough stuff to arm a small CA state...
never had a negcom or complaint in all the time i was there...

 

[sturmruger]

HD that is one of the best replies yet. While the money thing is a factor the relationship thing is an even bigger factor. I think most gun shop owners have a hard time with the relationship thing because there are just too many know it all gun buyers. I think they get so burnt out on idiots coming into their store they start put up a gruff front. I am still looking for that gun shop at the end of the rainbow.

Right now I tend to buy off of THR, CDNN or Gallery of Guns

 

[entropy]

You should come on up to St. Croix Falls some time, sturmruger! Mention me and they'll treat you good. Of course if you don't mention me, they might treat you better! Watch out for Dave, he thinks he knows everything. (He's slowly learing he doesn't though.)

 

[twoblink]

The two gun stores I use to buy from..

They have been nothing but nice, a few of them even stick little post-its, reminding themselves what new gun they had in they wanted to show me that they just got in..

My best experience is the fact that one of the gun stores, has this "custom", whenever someone's name was mentioned (Feinstein generally did it) every employee would make a "spitting" sound.. I always got a crackup from it..

I've had the exact opposite experience, bad service at the mattress store, and good service at the gun store.

One of the gun owners even let me fondle his P7 that he grey-ed and had a nice custom holder for.

 

[swingset]

The points made about margins don't make sense to me.

In fact, because firearms have such a small margin compared to furniture or mattresses, it would stand to reason that gun sellers would have to be even better at customer relations.

+1,000,000

If there's an industry in need of some damn people skills, it's the firearms biz.

The auto-sales business has slim margins, but even they can act nice and greet you on the lot.

Some gun dealers act as if you are a hindrance to their business, which has always baffled me. I guess its our own fault for tolerating such jerkoffs.

 

[Trebor]

On the other hand, I doubt many people open mattress stores because they want access to all the latest mattress models at wholesale prices or the ability to sleep on a different mattress every night.

If someone wants to "sleep on a different mattress every night" I can think of more interesting ways to do that than opening a mattress store.

 

[p35]

Gun shops are hobby shops- as I've said before, I could do everything I need to do with a gun with the first one I bought, a Security Six .357. The others I just like to have or shoot for one reason or the other.

Any hobby shop is going to have a "clubby" atmosphere as between the people who know the hobby and those who don't. Many years ago, when I had no kids and too much time on my hands, my wife bought me an RC car kit. I started putting it together but lost interest and put it in the basement. Years later, when my then 8 year old son started talking about RC, I dug it out and we built it together. Eventually, I took it to the local RC car shop/racetrack for help with some of the details. I got a lot of laughter and cracks about how I should have kept it as an antique, but also a lot of help making it run right and then putting in parts to make it faster.

Likewise, when we started getting into archery, I went to the local archery shop/range. They answered all my dumb questions and told me to come in Thursday night when the coaches hung out. I took the boys many Thursday nights and a couple old guys, on their own time, taught me and my sons proper form and how to be decent shots. Again, they did it just for the love of the sport.

Shooting tends to be a loner's sport. At the range, you put on earmuffs and concentrate on your own performance. It's not a sport like, say, basketball where no one gets anywhere unless they work with the rest of the team. It's also one where ignorance can get someone killed. That makes it easy to ignore or sneer at newbies who don't know a .380 from a .357. If it's going to grow, though, we have to be welcoming to the newbies and help them understand our hobby. That means that we have to put aside the standoffishness when a newbie wanders into the gun shop.

I think you also have to look at the physical surroundings. Lots of gun shops and other "guy's" hobby shops are in pre-fab metal buildings in marginal parts of town. Doesn't bother me, but my wife finds it intimidating. She likes the fancy department stores with girls wearing tons of makeup spraying perfume at passersby, swishy salesmen selling hand painted ties, and someone to bring you a cappucino as you review the latest fashions. I absolutely hate it when she drags me into that type of place. Remember Bronson Pinchot and Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop? One more reason to be welcoming- remember that it may not be the usual hangout we think it is.

I may have lost my point, but you see what I mean.

 

[p35]

Gun shops are hobby shops- as I've said before, I could do everything I need to do with a gun with the first one I bought, a Security Six .357. The others I just like to have or shoot for one reason or the other.

Any hobby shop is going to have a "clubby" atmosphere as between the people who know the hobby and those who don't. Many years ago, when I had no kids and too much time on my hands, my wife bought me an RC car kit. I started putting it together but lost interest and put it in the basement. Years later, when my then 8 year old son started talking about RC, I dug it out and we built it together. Eventually, I took it to the local RC car shop/racetrack for help with some of the details. I got a lot of laughter and cracks about how I should have kept it as an antique, but also a lot of help making it run right and then putting in parts to make it faster.

Likewise, when we started getting into archery, I went to the local archery shop/range. They answered all my dumb questions and told me to come in Thursday night when the coaches hung out. I took the boys many Thursday nights and a couple old guys, on their own time, taught me and my sons proper form and how to be decent shots. Again, they did it just for the love of the sport.

Shooting tends to be a loner's sport. At the range, you put on earmuffs and concentrate on your own performance. It's not a sport like, say, basketball where no one gets anywhere unless they work with the rest of the team. It's also one where ignorance can get someone killed. That makes it easy to ignore or sneer at newbies who don't know a .380 from a .357. If it's going to grow, though, we have to be welcoming to the newbies and help them understand our hobby. That means that we have to put aside the standoffishness when a newbie wanders into the gun shop.

I think you also have to look at the physical surroundings. Lots of gun shops and other "guy's" hobby shops are in pre-fab metal buildings in marginal parts of town. Doesn't bother me, but my wife finds it intimidating. She likes the fancy department stores with girls wearing tons of makeup spraying perfume at passersby, swishy salesmen selling hand painted ties, and someone to bring you a cappucino as you review the latest fashions. I absolutely hate it when she drags me into that type of place. Remember Bronson Pinchot and Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop? One more reason to be welcoming- remember that it may not be the comfortable hangout we think it is. I'm not discounting my sisters or gay brothers and sisters in arms on this board, but you're the exception rather than the rule.

I may have lost my point, but you see what I mean.

 

[aaronrkelly]

If there is anyone that knows how to treat customers it is car dealers.

I have the exact opposite opinion on car dealers. In my area, they are the absolute worst case of customer satisfaction I have seen. My closest dealer has such rude staff that I drive another 45 minutes for service. I find car dealers in bigger cities are far better but give me a gun store over a car dealership anyday.

 

[GregGry]

Wouldn't it be nice if they combined a mattress store, and a firearms shop? Just think, you could try out your Ruger GP100 in the night stand next to the bed you want.

 

[jerkface11]

The problem is "experts" trying to sell things. Car guys can't sell cars. I know I wouldn't be able to sell someone a ford focus if there's a honda civic 3door in the next row. Likewise gun guys can't sell guns. Could a die hard glock man sell a highpoint to someone without a snide comment? Could anyone gun guy sell someone a jennings if there's a bersa in the next case? Gun shops need staff who are helpful curtious and not that knowlegdeable about firearms. Anything more than a mild interest is a liability not an asset.

 

[chopinbloc]

i have been in good and bad gun stores and while i know it wasn't sturmruger's intention to imply that all gun store owners or employees are as bad as the one in his example, i'd like to offer up an example of my own. my friend works at a pawn shop and is in charge of the gun counter. being a pawnshop, he does have to deal with quite a few homies many of whom don't even speak english. when it's obvious that the person is not a legitimate customer, he has occasionally kicked someone out of the store. by and large, though, everyone in the store gets prompt, courteous service whether they are interested in a generator or a pistol. my friend is animated and enthusiastic about the features of the various firearms and loves to show them to customers. in short, the service you'll receive at (shameless plug) bell pawn in phoenix is several orders of magnitude better than that described in the original post - and this is a pawnshop. it is absolutely inexcusable for gunstores to do business this way. they're not just hurting their own business, they're driving new shooters away from the sport. yet another reason that i have no problem shopping at sportsman's warehouse in lieu of some jerk who won't give me the time of day.