Et tu, Kershaw?

[plumberroy]

Corporations have no obligation to keep jobs in the country, so stop complaining. You, however, have every obligation to vote with your dollar.

Obligations? No they don't have any. they don't have any morals either in my book build your company with American dollars on the backs of American workers then to increase profit take it over seas shows money is your god and I don't deal with people like that they can not be trusted. As far as voting with my dollars that is what I said I do in my first post . take a product built here overseas I don't buy it any more. As far as toyota goes the last person (county social services worker so she could go talk to the neighbor two doors down) that thought it was a good idea to park a toyota in my drive retreived it from the towing service down the street.It takes them about 3 minutes to get here. up untill two years ago there was a grade school across the street. People thought my drive way was public parking. So the towing company has instructions from P.D. that I call, they come and get asap

 

[CWL]

take a product built here overseas I don't buy it any more.

Ever looked at the backside of your computer keyboard? The back of your desktop or the of bottom of your laptop? What country does it come from? Will you stay off the internet stop using computers for work? -I doubt it. Yet computer companies were one of the first technologies to be manufactured overseas. For at least 15 years now.

All American brands are typically manufactured overseas purely due to price competition. The level of quality depends on what is set by the American 'brand' that is contract-manufacturing them. Quality is available in China, this is proven by the high-end electronics like "Sony" to consumer products like Apple iPods/iPhones/MacBook Airs or to medical equipment used every day in hospitals.

They can also be as cheap as possible if that is what the US company wants manufactured & imported. This lower end 'junk' is being imported because there are Americans willing to buy them.

Buy only what you want, but understand the realities of the world you now live in.

 

[conw]

That's fine, and I respect your ability to pick and choose your purchases. However, the poster above me makes some good points too.

 

[TimboKhan]

they don't have any morals either in my book build your company with American dollars on the backs of American workers then to increase profit take it over seas shows money is your god and I don't deal with people like that they can not be trusted.

So, what you are saying then is that if Americans simply built businesses in other countries to begin with, you would be perfectly comfortable with that because morally speaking, they didn't use American dollars and American labor? What about all the Americans that make money off investing in those companies? Should an American not invest in a foreign company simply because it is foreign? Moreover, will you not invest in a American company simply because they do business in places other than America? What about foreign companies that come here to build products, like Toyota, Beretta, Taurus and FN? Do you not invest in them or buy their products because ultimately they are foreign owned, even though they provide hundreds of American jobs?

I am not saying you are wrong with your opinions, but I am curious as to where the rhetoric stops and practicality (as defined by you, not me. We probably see "practical" very differently in this case) comes into play.

One thing you said that is correct is that money = God - at least in the eyes of every CEO in America. For better or for worse, that is just how it is.

Spyderco is an American company, and more to the point is a Colorado company. What do I do for them? Only buy US Spyderco knives and ignore the admittedly quality Japanese knives, or do I spend my dollars on every Spyderco product that I like and can afford, knowing that those dollars will trickle not only into the national economy, but more importantly to me, the Colorado economy as well?

I hope this thread doesn't get closed for being OT, because it is an interesting one!!!

 

[plumberroy]

This lower end 'junk' is being imported because there are Americans willing to buy them.

this we agree on. if 50% of Americans quit buying foreign made stuff for 6 months they would be building factories everywhere here.
I not against foreign made products I carry victorinox knives Xd pistols ,optimus campstoves, mora knives,ambassador reels(not anymore there made in china now) all of these were developed of perfected offshore. I see factories here in the midwest closing all the time. the imported products replacing them are nowhere near the quality or flexibility of american products . Of coarse there are things you pretty much have to that are not american made. I will not tell you how to spend your money. There are 9 knives laying on my desk 2 in my pockets and a tool bag over on the shelf with 15-20 more knives so I will not buy a new old timer, a china made buck or kershaw or spyderco.. to be honest I don't care for the look or feel of spyderco, but that is a personal taste issue. I know spyerco makes a quality knife. I will make do with what I have first . If I didn't have an abundance of knives and could only get a china knife would I use it of coarse

One thing you said that is correct is that money = God - at least in the eyes of every CEO in America. For better or for worse, that is just how it is.

I have dealt with several ceo types in either new construction or maintenance projects 95% of them money is more important than their word. if a persons word is no good, neither are they, in my opinion

We probably see "practical" very differently in this case) comes into play.

I work at a place that several years ago decided we were to wear steel toe boots with tarsel guards they would give you china made boots or pay $50 on domestic boots I bought the domestic ones $65 more
I most likely have about 25% of the chinese made thing that the average person has . I look where every thing is made(which drives my wife crazy at times) and will spend more for American products
Of coarse I have been accused of being a curmudeonly old hillbilly that enjoys a good argument too
Roy

 

[alaskanativeson]

I will take several things into account when deciding on where to spend my money. Sometimes product quality is the only consideration, sometimes political views come into play. Given the choice between two identical items, one made in USA and one made overseas I'll obviously pick the American made product. However, if a high quality knife can be made in China (like my Benchmade Mini-Pika) for a much lower price than an American made product, I don't have a problem with buying one.

Labor costs are indeed a major reason overseas costs can be lower. There's also often less government interferrence which I usually support. Unlike one of the earlier posters, I am generally anti-union. They have served a very useful purpose in the past and still do serve a purpose in a very limited fashion (if for no other reason than to remind us that unions' greed for power and money is usually just as bad as the corporations they fight.)

Overseas competition serves to keep the edge on American businesses. Learn to be efficient or learn a different way to survive. It's called evolution. A previous poster brought up Toyotas. I remember my sister's 1974 Toyota Corolla and what a piece of junk it was. Today there is not a single American company made car that is as good a quality as the Corolla is, but Fords and Chevys today are much better than they were in the 80s and 90s. They had to improve to compete. That's evolution.

I'll generally agree that American made knives today are better quality than many of the imports but the gap is closing. That's going to force American companies to improve their quality. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

 

[JohnnyOrygun]

Ramblings...

I didn't know Kershaw was Japanese owned, thanks for the info.

The CRKT I just bought was right around $45 and that was at a rather expensive knife store, so I consider that a fairly good bargain considering I bought my Benchmade Griptillian (US made) for right at $100. Could I have found either knife cheaper? Yeah, I know I could have, but I like the little knife store where I bought them... the people in their know their business. They are a small Mom and Pop operation, so I buy from them. One of the clerks I was talking to had went to this years SHOT show, so they are enthusiasts too.

My point is, we all make choices with our dollars, as I said earlier, I prefer to support American made, but I also prefer to support the Mom & Pop operations rather then the big box stores (not just wal-mart, but also Sportsman's Warehouse and others) We have to face the music, so to speak, we are in a global economy... we make Toyota's, BMW's and Nissan's in the U.S.A and we make Fords and Chevy's in Mexico, Europe, and who knows where else.

Any rate, that is enough of my babbling on.

Little John

 

[Piedmont Plinker]

The "cost of labor" excuse is the biggest lie going

Really? No, really? Cost of labor has nothing to do with moving knife production offshore?

The obligation of a company is to make its owners or shareholder money. If this means moving offshore, than yes, they will do that. If they will make more money this way- then that's GREAT! I love people making money. Money is good. Money creates jobs. What, you say? But if they move offshore, they can't be creating jobs. Well, think about it- there's the ship captain or pilot who brought it over here. He may or may not be American. Then there are the dockhands and crane operators, here in America, that unload. There are the truck drivers and train conductors, in America, and the gas and electric companies that make these run, in America, and there are the sales reps, in America, and there are the truck stops and train-station restaraunts and convenience stores that these people pay with the money they've earned, and then there are the people who work at the truck stops and train stations...
And, don't forget that Chinese made knives are made by the Chinese. Communist or not, Chinese laborers still have low wages, so you're supporting someone is Asia.