Evaluation of WSF use in 357 Sig, Final results.

[Blue68f100]

I got a chance to do some more testing using WSF in the 357 Sig. I tested this time using New Starline Brass, WSF, WSP, with the following bullets. RMR 124gr FMJ-TC Match Winners, RMR 124gr HP General use, and 124gr XTP. The results all said the same thing, no matter which brass mfg I used. I was getting Over pressure signs real early in the testing, Group opened up greatly as the load went up. Below is the last targets I shot using WSF and 124gr MW @ 1.140" OAL.

My testing setup. All shots at 25 yrds. The targets have a 1" Dot, with 1/2" expanding rings. I shot these with my custom 1911, 5" Kart Barrel, equipped with a Holosun HS507C X2 (slide mounted) in manual brightness mode. I adjust the brightness down so the dot only allows me to see a black halo. I'm using bags to support my wrist and front of the barrel. Temp 58F, 30.0" Hg, partly sunny. Crony data is beside the target, avg, ES, SD. Crony at 8'



As you can see as I went up in load the grouping opened up. According to data I have 7.1 gr is max for the 147gr XTP. Close examination showed I had a breach face mark in the base of the brass at the 7.1 load. This is not a very full case. I would Estimate ~80% fill.

To confirm if I was shooting any good that day I shot my 8.0 Herco load, which has proven it self.
I wanted to see if Using the LFCD did any good, 1/2 turn. You can make the conclusion as I did.



As it indicates I was shooting fairly well with my setup. Crony numbers are better NON FCD, but not by much. FCD crony numbers 1320 fps, ES 8, SD 4. Without FCD 1311 fps, ES 6, SD 3.

WSF is usable 6.8 gr and below but grouping was never consistent with any of the bullets I tested with. Avg group was around 3-4" at 25 yrds. Once you go above 6.8 gr it opens up. At 7.0 gr less than 1/2 the bullets will hit a 8.5x11" sheet of paper.

So far my go to powders are Herco with HS6 as a backup.

Has any one tried the W296/H110 in the 357 Sig? I have data for it but have not tested it. I have several lbs of it for it's my go to for my 458 SOCOM.

 

[Palladan44]

I got a chance to do some more testing using WSF in the 357 Sig. I tested this time using New Starline Brass, WSF, WSP, with the following bullets. RMR 124gr FMJ-TC Match Winners, RMR 124gr HP General use, and 124gr XTP. The results all said the same thing, no matter which brass mfg I used. I was getting Over pressure signs real early in the testing, Group opened up greatly as the load went up. Below is the last targets I shot using WSF and 124gr MW @ 1.140" OAL.

My testing setup. All shots at 25 yrds. The targets have a 1" Dot, with 1/2" expanding rings. I shot these with my custom 1911, 5" Kart Barrel, equipped with a Holosun HS507C X2 (slide mounted) in manual brightness mode. I adjust the brightness down so the dot only allows me to see a black halo. I'm using bags to support my wrist and front of the barrel. Temp 58F, 30.0" Hg, partly sunny. Crony data is beside the target, avg, ES, SD. Crony at 8'

View attachment 1035698

As you can see as I went up in load the grouping opened up. According to data I have 7.1 gr is max for the 147gr XTP. Close examination showed I had a breach face mark in the base of the brass at the 7.1 load. This is not a very full case. I would Estimate ~80% fill.

To confirm if I was shooting any good that day I shot my 8.0 Herco load, which has proven it self.
I wanted to see if Using the LFCD did any good, 1/2 turn. You can make the conclusion as I did.

View attachment 1035699

As it indicates I was shooting fairly well with my setup. Crony numbers are better NON FCD, but not by much. FCD crony numbers 1320 fps, ES 8, SD 4. Without FCD 1311 fps, ES 6, SD 3.

WSF is usable 6.8 gr and below but grouping was never consistent with any of the bullets I tested with. Avg group was around 3-4" at 25 yrds. Once you go above 6.8 gr it opens up. At 7.0 gr less than 1/2 the bullets will hit a 8.5x11" sheet of paper.

So far my go to powders are Herco with HS6 as a backup.

Has any one tried the W296/H110 in the 357 Sig? I have data for it but have not tested it. I have several lbs of it for it's my go to for my 458 SOCOM.

I doubt there is any data for WIN-296 in 357 SIG and even if there was, I would take a Pass on it. It's just too slow of powder for a short/fat case. I think Blue Dot, Longshot, or AA#7 would be the slowest powders for 357 SIG, and they would get you some excellent, top end velocities. Just my thought...

Your experiment looks well done, great shooting at 25 yds.....your groups look equivalent to "ragged hole" groups at 10 yds, which is my accuracy standard for semi auto service caliber loads.
I too like to load my 357 SIG and 10mm loads to their fullest power potential while remaining safe and accurate otherwise im just shooting 9mm or 40 s&w, with really expensive and hard to find brass that I have to chase across the floor....

 

[Lennyjoe]

I’m getting good results with Blue Dot under 124 gr XTP out of both my G32 and Sig P226. Landed at 10.4 gr as 10.5 started to show a little primer flattening.

Havent ran them across a chrono yet but they’re grouping better than the 147’s do.

 

[Palladan44]

I’m getting good results with Blue Dot under 124 gr XTP out of both my G32 and Sig P226. Landed at 10.4 gr as 10.5 started to show a little primer flattening.
View attachment 1035839

There's a charge thrower that can measure Blue Dot to the 1/10th? ..... like spooning cornflakes with a tablespoon, and hoping for "33" cornflakes each spoonful..... maybe I'm being a little harsh....
In 10mm, Blue Dot reigns Supreme next to Longshot IMO in 357 SIG, 10mm. And, for those 2-3" barreled 357 Revolver guys looking for a good magnum load.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I’m using 800X in 10MM and use an electronic dispenser for that.
As for Blue Dot, I throw close to 10.4 and trickle the rest to my charge.

 

[Palladan44]

I’m using 800X in 10MM and use an electronic dispenser for that.
As for Blue Dot, I throw close to 10.4 and trickle the rest to my charge.View attachment 1035880

Got it, that makes sense.

 

[forrest r]

Interesting choice of bullets (tc) to use in a bbl that isn't throated.

 

[lordpaxman]

According to data I have 7.1 gr is max for the 147gr XTP.

I don’t load for .357 sig, but, why would you use 147gr data for a 124gr bullet? Hodgdon doesn’t list WSF for 124gr, not sure why.

 

[vaalpens]

To confirm if I was shooting any good that day I shot my 8.0 Herco load, which has proven it self.

You are doing some great shooting and I am impressed with your Herco results. I should definitely try Herco, if I can find it.

My most accurate loads for 357sig Using a P229 with a 3.9" barrel are:

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, Unique, 7.1gr, CCI500
Average: 1254
ES: 18
SD: 8.1
Force: 433
PF: 155
Velocities: 1254, 1265, 1247, 1247, 1261
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.478"
Test Date: 10/08/2017

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, CFEpistol, 6gr, CCI500
Average: 1064
ES: 19
SD: 7.4
Force: 369
PF: 156
Velocities: 1065, 1057, 1059, 1076, 1064
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.5"
Test Date: 11/20/2018

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, CFEpistol, 5.5gr, FED100M
Average: 975
ES: 87
SD: 34
Force: 310
PF: 143
Velocities: 1003, 983, 986, 988, 916
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.51"
Test Date: 11/01/2020

I haven't done much testing at 25 yards, but I probably do some more testing since most accuracy comparisons are done at 25 yards. These are the only loads I tested at 25 yards:

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, HMPHPRR, CFEpistol, 5.5gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 25yd: 1.12"
Test Date: 12/23/2017

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, Unique, 7gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 25yd: 1.215"
Test Date: 10/10/2017

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, Unique, 7gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 25yd: 1.64"
Test Date: 04/01/2018

 

[Blue68f100]

I don’t load for .357 sig, but, why would you use 147gr data for a 124gr bullet? Hodgdon doesn’t list WSF for 124gr, not sure why.

You can always use a heavier bullet data for a lighter bullet. The load will be light if you stop at the heavier max. If you look at any load data you will see as the weight of the bullet goes up the charge goes down. It's been standard practice to use a heavier one if yous is not listed.

 

[kcofohio]

I got a chance to do some more testing using WSF in the 357 Sig. I tested this time using New Starline Brass, WSF, WSP, with the following bullets. RMR 124gr FMJ-TC Match Winners, RMR 124gr HP General use, and 124gr XTP. The results all said the same thing, no matter which brass mfg I used. I was getting Over pressure signs real early in the testing, Group opened up greatly as the load went up. Below is the last targets I shot using WSF and 124gr MW @ 1.140" OAL.

My testing setup. All shots at 25 yrds. The targets have a 1" Dot, with 1/2" expanding rings. I shot these with my custom 1911, 5" Kart Barrel, equipped with a Holosun HS507C X2 (slide mounted) in manual brightness mode. I adjust the brightness down so the dot only allows me to see a black halo. I'm using bags to support my wrist and front of the barrel. Temp 58F, 30.0" Hg, partly sunny. Crony data is beside the target, avg, ES, SD. Crony at 8'

View attachment 1035698

As you can see as I went up in load the grouping opened up. According to data I have 7.1 gr is max for the 147gr XTP. Close examination showed I had a breach face mark in the base of the brass at the 7.1 load. This is not a very full case. I would Estimate ~80% fill.

To confirm if I was shooting any good that day I shot my 8.0 Herco load, which has proven it self.
I wanted to see if Using the LFCD did any good, 1/2 turn. You can make the conclusion as I did.

View attachment 1035699

As it indicates I was shooting fairly well with my setup. Crony numbers are better NON FCD, but not by much. FCD crony numbers 1320 fps, ES 8, SD 4. Without FCD 1311 fps, ES 6, SD 3.

WSF is usable 6.8 gr and below but grouping was never consistent with any of the bullets I tested with. Avg group was around 3-4" at 25 yrds. Once you go above 6.8 gr it opens up. At 7.0 gr less than 1/2 the bullets will hit a 8.5x11" sheet of paper.

So far my go to powders are Herco with HS6 as a backup.

Has any one tried the W296/H110 in the 357 Sig? I have data for it but have not tested it. I have several lbs of it for it's my go to for my 458 SOCOM.

Here is an article that list H110 for a couple of loads.
https://reloadammo.com/reloading-357-sig/

I have some loads worked up using 2400 with 147 gr. RMR MWs. Shot the lower loads, but I need to use a chrony for the rest. The lower end shot okay.

 

[Blue68f100]

You are doing some great shooting and I am impressed with your Herco results. I should definitely try Herco, if I can find it.

This is a compressed load. The powder level comes up to the top of the neck, eliminates bullet set back. The powder I'm using is probably closer to 45-50 yrs old out of the old square metal cans with the metal push to open cap.