Experienced (handgun) shooters, info needed

[Telesway]

Sometimes I hear people saying some guns are "top heavy" and I've understood this means that the balance of the gun is such that the barrell feels heavier than the grip, right?

Usually when I've read of top heavy guns the attribute seems to be considered negative.

Why is this? Am I missing something when I'm thinking being top heavy a gun might have less recoil?

Some say the Springfield Armory XD is top heavy. Would the compact version (not sub-compact) with the normal 4" barrell but shorter grip be so top heavy as to hinder it's "shootability"?

Thanks in advance!

 

[nplant]

I don't hear "top heavy" too often, but here's my take:

If it feels heavy only on the top, you probably have less mass overall, which in turn means less mass to help absorb recoil. It's all relative, in my opinion. I have an XD 45ACP compact, and it's a handful, but manageable. Better than my Warthog, for sure. Is it top heavy? I guess so.

 

[chris in va]

Hard to explain. It's just about balance.

For example, the Ruger 22/45 5.5" stainless I had was very unbalanced and 'top heavy' as it had a polymer frame. Just didn't feel right.

My CZ 75 OTOH feels very balanced, being all steel.

If you fondle a few handguns, you'll know what I mean.

 

[dogmush]

What you're describing is "barrel heavy". For me, when some one says it's top heavy that means the slide/barrel (Top) is out of balance with the frame/mag (bottom). It has to do with recoil control. The slide on an autopistol imparts it's own recoil pulse when it stops rearward travel due to Newton's 1st. Since this wieght is always above your wrist it tends to make the muzzle rise. If the bottom half is "in balance" then it helps contol this twisting motion also due to Newton's 1st. The hole thing is highly subjective, which is why some handguns work better for some people.

On my XD45 (4") There is a noticable increase in muzzle flip between the first and last round. It's got a light polymer frame and 13 .45ACP rounds in it. So at the end of the mag a good percentage of the static wieght of the weapon has been removed, and the center of balance is very different then the first round. I can feel it. Most people can feel it in any hi-cap Polymer gun if they look for it.

FWIW I'm not convinced this has a noticable effect in SD situations with adrenilin running high and fight/flight kicking in, but I have noticed it during matches. My controlled pairs are farther apart at the end of the mag with the same split times.

Depending on your use of the weapon it might affect "shootability". But it's only one part of the weapons "shootability" and it will effect people differently. If you can, shoot one. IMHO you will find that the lighter the frame of the weapon, the more it will move in recoil, and the slower/less accurate quick follow-up shots will be. YMMV


*ETA* I should also mention I'm only talking about a couple of inches difference. My groupls go from 2-3" to 4-5". Still fine for combat.

 

[Telesway]

Thanks for the info everyone!

I'm thinking because while I currently have a SA XD9, the 4" service model, I'm considering eventually switching to the Compact version or the CZ PCR since they are more concealable due to their shorter grips. Just worried if the XD9 Compact would be too unbalanced seeing as it's a polymer gun.

I do shoot practical shooting but it's just a means to an end for me, my only real goal gun-wise is self protection. Getting good scores is nice but not anywhere near as important as being able to shoot the gun well enough under stress and being able to conceal it well.

 

[Ala Dan]

For me, SIG's with stainless steel slides* seem "top heavy"; so I prefer the
stamped, sheet metal slide SIG's over those~!

*FootNote: The new, New Hampshire made P226's and P229's come to mind.
Again, I guess that is why I prefer my West German .45 caliber P220A, and my
West German 9m/m P228~!

 

[DWARREN123]

That is one reason I like my Glocks, well balanced for me. My G23 with 22lr conversion slide feels like a cap pistol but still well balanced.

 

[230RN]

Followup question: I always figured with the barrel higher than the grip "center line," if you will, they'd torque upward more on firing, resulting in slower realignment of the sights.

I wonder if this results in more perceived recoil.

Yes?

No?

 

[rcmodel]

Want to feel top-heavy in action?

Try handling a Hi-Point 9mm.

The gun weighs 35 ounces, and about 30 ounces of that is the cast zinc blow-back slide.

rcmodel

 

[CypherNinja]

Typically, "top heavy" guns have polymer grips, meaning the gun is lighter than an equivalent metal framed gun. This can increase perceived recoil.

Also, "top heavy" guns will have a proportionately heavier reciprocating mass compared to the frame. This can cause the gun to "bounce around" more in ones hand, which might be perceived as recoil.

Followup question: I always figured with the barrel higher than the grip "center line," if you will, they'd torque upward more on firing, resulting in slower realignment of the sights.

I wonder if this results in more perceived recoil.

Yes?

No?

A higher bore-axis will result in more muzzle flip. Generally considered a bad thing, except for maybe on huge bore revolvers.

 

[Lonestar49]

Unloaded vs Loaded, but..

...

Another thought is that with most guns one looks at then holds, such as mentioned, newer SIGS, may feel top heavy, as they are empty and when you put 10, 12, rounds into the mag and insert it, weight/balance of the gun/s change IMO, for the better.

However, with any of my SIGS, be it the P220R, P229R/9mm or my P229 n/r 40cal, they felt perfect unloaded, and when loaded, even better, with no complaints with accuracy or quick follow-up shots, even down to the last shots, as top-heavy never entered the equation with the first, unloaded, feel of them.

IMHO, it's all relative to one's hands and grip and arm/wrist strengths.. Each of my guns, from the start, just over 1 1/2yrs ago, have become much lighter-feeling because of muscle-memory and build-up that will occur with use and time.. without fail, rather quickly.

YMMV,


Ls

 

[ExSoldier]

I once had a BEAUTIFUL S&W M19 with a 4" bbl that was just absolutely the BEST revolver I've ever owned. It was in fact my FIRST handgun ever. I dropped deer with it as a college student at the University of Alabama.

It had a SQUARE butt with beautiful Goncalvo grips. CAme the time 20 years later that I wanted to put some nice round butt grips on her for ccw in warmer climates. So I had the backstrap shaved and polished to handle the new grips. Worse thing I ever did. It destroyed the balance and the muzzle felt like it weighed a TON. I traded it the next gun show with much regret.