External extractors on 1911s

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AFTEC

Hawk said:

Question for Tuner: what do you think of the Aftec spring loaded internal?

With the limited exprience that I have with them...mixed. It's a pretty
slick attempt to get the "spring" back into barstock extractors, and works
well...until the springs wear out, and one usually goes south before the other one does.

Then it gets a little busy for my tastes, but I'm pretty much sold on the
pistol's "Easy Service Afield" featuress, which the AFTEC negates to some degree. Tiny springs and other parts have a tendency to get fumbled into
the end zone. If they would redesign it to make the whole thing a captive
assembly...qwuick-change, if you will...it would be better, though more expensive to buy two of them and keep one in reserve.

In my ancient way of thinking, it's an ingenious solution to a non-existent
problem. For less than the cost of one of those gizmos, a really good spring steel extractor could be made and sold, and pretty much put an end to extractor problems. Problems is...that would put extractor makers out of business in about 5 years.

In all fairness, the guys who I know who use them swear by them. They
still keep a conventional extractor pre-tuned to the gun in their range bags,
though. The smart ones do, anyway.

That there's my nickel's worth. The only way to know if you like'em is to
fork over the bucks and try one. Might be a good idea to order a couple
of spare spring sets, though.

Cheers!
Tuner
 
re: Dominic's Ed Brown

Sorry for the double reply...:rolleyes: Sometimes I don't
have enough coffee down my neck to see when I read these.

Dominic, yes...You can "whack" on the Brown Hardcore,
but do it just a little and try it. Bending/straightening will
eventually work-harden it, and possibly lead to a failure.
better to sneak up on the right amount than to overwork the
stem.

While many people use the extractor channel to provide backing to allow them to tension the extractor by bending, I use that only in the field. When
setting one up on the bench, I use the bump method. Why? Tempered
steel...true spring steel or good barstock, reacts better to a slight shock
when attempting to bend or straighten it, and lends a little sharper
"memory". I learned this when working at an automotive machine
shop early in my journeyman experience. I was taught to grind the
journals and throws on crankshafts, and learned much in that role.

Steel crankshafts have a little "spring" in them, and like all steel tend
to flex and warp after any cutting operation. Not really an issue on a
crankshaft meant for a grocery getter, but possibly critical in a high-performance or racing operation...which is what this shop was all about.

After grinding a racing crank, a dial indicator was mounted on the center main journal and checked for runout. It had to be held as close to none
as possible, with a tolerance of +/- .0005 inch. That's a HALF thousandth.
We didn't straighten the crankshafts with a hydraulic or arbor press. We
whacked'em on the counterweight with short-handled sledge hammer.
Now for the odd part. We had to hit the crank in the OPPOSITE direction
that we wanted it to move, and kept rotating the crank 180 degrees, using progressively lighter blows until we reached our goal. Ahhhh..The good ol'
days!

Cheers!

Tuner
 
My dads Series 70 Gold cup is on its third extractor. First two were colt factory. The second time it went i got him a wilson extractor. Very happy with it.
 
the place

Bluesbear asked
Which place is this Dominic? When I lived in Louisville I always used Gary Roman at Firearms Service Center for the stuff I couldn't do myself.
Click to expand...

That's the place. I can also say a few good things about it though. They warrantee everything they sell, new and used, for 90 days and they really went out of their way to get a new gun that I purchased that was defective NIB fixed for me. If you get a chance to work and talk directly with Gary everything is fine. If you have to work or talk with the guy who works for him, the results often leave something to be desired. See my other posts about "Hi-Power Hammer Bite". Apparently anything in the Cylinder & Slide catalog, like the "No Bite" hi-power hammers is just out of their ken. If you say the word "Internet" in that shop people's eyes roll up in their head and they start foaming at the mouth. In short, I just think that they are just quite lacking in the customer service department. Except of course when you work with Gary himself. He listens to you when you speak.

The shop is no longer locacted in the old Arby's building on Hikes. It's now in the Eastland shopping center on Watterson Trail and B-town road and it has *expanded* dramatically. They have an in-door archery range. I may have to get into shooting bows this year.
 
I always thought that old covered wagon shaped Arby's building was perfect for a gun shop. I remember when Gary first opened up there.

Gary himself has always been great to deal with but I agree with you on him having some employees that, unless you were in their little "clique", were a little lacking in the politeness department.
 
I'm obsessed with my extractor! LONG

alternately titled: extractor won't retain tension

A high-quality, properly adjusted extractor is quite possibly the most important component in a 1911. - from the WilsonCombat.com website

Ok, where we have last left my extractor story I had just "Tuned" the stock extractor in my Springfield Milspec 1911 and it was holding the round to the breech face. I took it to the range and put 200 rds through it. The first 150 rounds went off without failure but there was one problem - the brass was pinging off the slide, just to the rear/top of the ejection port, right on the "flare" or bevel. This left a lot brass ding marks there, which I later removed with some fine steel wool and breakfree clp.

The last 50 rounds produced two failures to eject. They were the typical failures that I had experienced earlier, a spent case failed to eject and stuck inline with the magazine.

I wish that I had stopped periodically to check the extractor tension while at the range. When I got home I disassembled to clean and discovered that the stock extractor had returned to it's "untension" state. It didn't come close to holding a case in tight to the breech face.

Ok, so at this point I'm impatient and frustrated. I drove up to Gary Roman's firearms service and bought an Ed Brown extractor. It's not a Hard Core, but is labeled "Match Grade". The package label features the instruction "tension to hold case to breech face." I took it home and tried to tension it myself. Try as I may and might I could not "tune" (bend) the extractor to a point where it would hold the case to the breech face. Seriously! I futzed with it for an hour. Somewhat annoyed with myself, I drove back up to Gary Roman's and spoke to Marc, the smith. He looked at the gun and said, "You don't need to do all that." He cycled a few rounds through the gun and said, "Did you put this oversized ejector in this gun?" What the hell? "Yeah, that's the problem." So, he wants to cut on it and I said, do your worst. He relieved the leading edge of the ejector slightly and dropped in an 18lb recoil spring. This seemed to improve the gun's ejection considerably and the brass did not ping off the slide. He fired a rapid string of 5 rounds in his test range and declared it fixed. The Ed Brown extractor had ZERO tension - basically just a straight as the stock extractor was. I paid the bill and headed to the range with 250 rds of 230gr ball, still skeptical.

The gun shot great at the range. It ejected 250 brass casings at a neat 90 degrees and not a single round pinged off the slide or my bald pate. No failures of any kind. The trigger has improved considerably, or I have. Then the rear sight fell off (again - but that's a different thread). As expected, the extractor has not miraculously tensioned or tuned itself. If you try to clip a round in behind the hook it falls right out.

I have the worst luck with purchasing new firearms and having to send them in for factory repair. I swear, I am cursed. Conversely, I am one of these people that very rarely experiences computer hardware failures (and I have a ton of computer hardware, but then I've always been picky about the electricity that I used to feed my hardware).

At the shop the gunsmith was quick to tell me that a "good 1911 will function without an extractor" and I have read as much in other posts by 1911 Tuner and others on THR and 1911forums. So, do I really need to so concerned with the tension on my extractor? I am already contemplating my next 1911 purchase and I have spent the morning reading the Internal vs Extractor debate threads. So far I am leaning towards a 70s series style ignition with an internal extractor but I am going to spend another few months before further investment in the platform.

That being said, I'm amazed at how easy it is to carry a 1911 GM. I thought it would be impossible.
 
Extractor Adventures

LOL...Buddy, you've had a time with this extractor issue.

You said:

I wish that I had stopped periodically to check the extractor tension while at the range. When I got home I disassembled to clean and discovered that the stock extractor had returned to it's "untension" state. It didn't come close to holding a case in tight to the breech face.
-----------------------------------

Springfield has recently had some bad extractors. Improper heat treatment
and tempering causes them to lose tension quickly, and/or the hook wears
and releases the grip on the rim. It's a vendor issue, as Springfield doesn't
make their own extractors.

On the Brown match grade being hard to tension and not seeming to require any. A couple of possibilities emerge here. The most obvious is
that the Brown is much stiffer than the original, and it won't flex enough to
allow the hook to slip off the rim. Evidently there's just enough side tension to keep the case on the breechface long enough to give the ejector a whack at it. Bad news is...it may not last.

While it's true that many 1911s will run without an extractor, there's a fine
line between working and leaving the case in the chamber. I'm convinced
that it's a matter of unlocking the barrel at just the right time...when chamber pressure has dropped off and lets the brass spring back so its
grip in the chamber is low, but still with enough residual pressure left to
blow it out. A nanosecond earlier or later, and it won't run.

As for setting the tension to the point described, in most pistols, it will
work perfectly with that set-up. With others it's a starting point. The
extractor has two tasks heaped on it. It must extract... in case the timing
isn't "just right" for extractorless function...and it must be loose enough to
allow reliable feeding, since the rim has to cam the hook open as it slips
up on the breechface. Too much tension will often stop it cold, just short
of full battery. Sometimes, after setting tension as described, it's necessary
to UN-bend it a little to allow feeding. I have one pistol like that, and it's
mainly a matter of tolerances stacking up. Slightly undersized channel and slightly oversized center pads on the extractor. A few thousandths can make a difference if the tolerances stack up in the same direction.

The way to get tension on yours without applying too much is to reduce the
diameter of the pad just behind the hook by about .005 inch to let the
hook move closer to the center of the breechface. Understand that doing that MAY require a slight bend to get it working agian. I apply the bend by laying the extractor between two vise jaws and bumping the inboard pad...or dog knot..with a brass hammer. Bump and try...repeat. Tempered steel usually reacts better to a bending/straightening operation by shocking it a little. Be sure to spread the vise jaws apart far enough to support the stem just behind the front pad (hook end) and just in front of the butt-end of the extractor.

Best advice right now is...If it's ain't broke, don't fix it. Shoot it a while to
see if anything changes or the malfunction acts like it's starting again.

The extended ejector was probably kicking the brass out too early, before the slide had slowed down, and the slide was smacking it in mid-air. The
length of the ejector times the ejection...The shape is PART of what determines the direction out the port. Other things come into play on that,
but the shape is about half the equation.

Keep us posted.

Tuner
 
Absolutely outstanding, quality information - I just dropped in to say, "Thanks!"

It doesn't get better than this!

Trisha
 
External or internal extractors? Both are proven designs, the key is in the execution.

For example, the Keltec P32, an external extractor design, places the extractor so low along the bore axis that only a corner of the extractor engages the rim of the cartridge. They took a good design and executed it poorly.

Colt tried MIM extractors and had many failures. They now use bar stock. But Caspian extractors are cast (if I'm not mistaken) and seem to hold up quite well.

Either one works if done right and neither will suffice if done poorly.

Regards,
Happyguy:D
 
yet another attempt to hijack this thread

Ok the Ed Brown HardCore extractor showed up in the mail yesterday morning. Incidentally it is the EXACT shape and size of the stock Springfield MilSpec extractor, where as the Ed Brown Match Extractor has some recognizable differences from the stock extractor.

I tried tuning the HardCore extractor. No dice. Tuning, i.e. bending/whacking is not the problem. The problem is getting it into the extractor tunnel without having to completely straighten it out again. I believe that your suggestion about the diameter of the pad just below the hook is the issue. The pad completel fills the hole from which the hook emerges into the chamber. So, since the tolerance is so tight, the extractor will not hold or be able to be installed in its tuned shape and is incapable of flexing towards the center line. I've read other posts where folks have had to drill out the extractor tunnel to get the extractor to flex as needed. I wonder if that is what is going on here.

I called Springfield to see what they would say about their extractor. I said, "The stock extractor isn't holding tune, can you send me a new one?"
"No sir, you must send in your gun so that we can tune your extractor."
"But it didn't come with tension. It was straight as an arrow. Is there supposed to be enough tension on the extractor to hold a case to the breech face?"
"I don't know, I just know that if you have extractor problems you are supposed to send it in so we can tune it."

I elected to not send the gun to SA at this time. I took the gun with it' zero tension extractor to the range today and put 250 rds of assorted flavors of 230gr ball through it. Total round count is now 950. No failures of any kind, though it did seem that ejection was getting a little spastic at the end of the session. This gun has a 18.5lbs recoil spring in it. The gun is very accurate (more accurate than I am, of course) and I love the way it shoots. I am won over to the 1911 trigger and that 5" barrel's sight radius!

Ok, so far I've talked to one of the city's two listed gunsmiths and he says that the extractor does not need tension. The listed gunsmith won't return my calls. So what's my recourse? Frankly, I'm skeptical about sending this gun to SA. Mostly because I don't want to be without for 8 weeks. I will call tomorrow and try to get a tech on the phone.

1911 tuner, I think I understand everything that you are saying and I really appreciate you responding to my posts. When I follow your testing methods I can clearly see why extractor tension is important. I tell you what - the next time I buy a 1911 I am going with either a empty casing or a snap cap and asking the clerk if they can check the extractor tension for me before I buy. I am sure that will go over real well.
 
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Ok, I finally got through to a tech a Springfield: A very nice and helpful guy named Randy. His suggestion - file down the front pad to give the extractor room to bend/tension to the center line. Duh. I am off to buy tools now.
 
Refer back to...

...a post on January 4th. Here is a cut and paste:

The way to get tension on yours without applying too much is to reduce the
diameter of the pad just behind the hook by about .005 inch to let the
hook move closer to the center of the breechface.

Tech Randy's got a handle on it.

When you file that pad, be sure to reduce the whole radius or the hook
won't move toward the center. .005 inch reduction should do it, but you may need to take off a little more.

Cheers!
Tuner
 
1911 tuner. - Yes, I caught that in your earlier post. I was just in denial that I was going to have to file or dremel anything. I went to Home Despot and bought an adjustable vise and some small files. I'll let you know how it goes. I went 1911 shopping again today. Some some nice looking guns. Found a used Springfield TRP for $950. But I am not buying anything else until I get this one working the way it should. I'm here to learn. Thanks again for all of your help.
 
Files

Howdy Dominic,

I wasn't doin' a "TOLD A SO" thing...I was callin' attention to
the dimensions.
:neener:

You can do the job with a 6-inch smooth-cut mill file. If you
don't know how to follow a radius with a file, the best way is
to cut a flat across the top, and cut flats on either side at about
a 30 degree angle. Blend the flats lightly when you've got the
dimensions.

You may need to reduce the middle inboard know a bit too.
Check to see if you can get the tension before that, though.

Keep us posted on this project.

Later on!
Tuner
 
persistence separates the great from those that suck

I purchased a six file set of Nicholson "Hobby Files" and a small adjustable and plastic padded Brink & Cotton "Hobby Vise" from Home Despot.

Let me elaborate on my metal working skills and experience using files:

I have seen films depicting incarcerated men using files to cut through bars in their attempt to escape.

That being said I tried my best to follow 1911 Tuner's instructions for tuning a extractor that he posted earlier in this thread.

I do not own gauges or calipers or whatever you use to measure the dimensions of what you need to cut, but I would like to. If anyone knows where I can purchase them online, I would be most obliged. So, I just had to eyeball everything. I modified the stock extractor that shipped with the gun and used the unmodified Ed Brown Hardcore extractor (which was identical in dimensions, as far as I could tell, to the stock SA extractor). I would also like to know where to buy an India Stone. Is all this stuff just in the Brownell's catalog?

I think that my first attemp came out ok. Extractor now passes the tests that 1911 Tuner described. We'll see how it does at the range and see if it holds tension through 250 rds of CCI Blazer 230 gr Ball later this week.

Emboldened by the use of the file, I am now wondering if I can buy a jig and use the files to cut off the parts of th fram that I need to install a high ride beaver tail. I've got a lot of bite and bruise from the tang of the milspec grip safety. I know that this will require dropping in a new hammer too. Whoa, that's shooting pretty high for me.
 
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Metalworking

No calipers???? You ain't gonna make the Guild without a set of
dial calipers...:D

If you have a local gun shop that deals in reloading supplies, they've
either got one, or can get one...probably 40-5- bucks for a Dllon. I've got a hunch Dillon dial calipers are Mitutoyo. Pretty decent set of calipers for the money, and should last a long time...Just don't drop'em.

Files and stones are available through Brownells, or you can do like I do
and get'em through a machine tool supply jobber. While you're there,
have one of the guys demonstrate how to file to a radius. Easy to do, but
hard to describe in print. I do the mods on extractor pads by rolling it
between my thumb and finger against a sanding drum on a Dremel, and
finish it (purely cosmetic) on a craytex wheel.

Hope that extractor takes care of bidness for ya.

-EDIT-WHoops..Almost forgot. (Coffee finally kicked in) Dominic asked:

Emboldened by the use of the file, I am now wondering if I can buy a jig and use the files to cut off the parts of th fram that I need to install a high ride beaver tail.

Brownells has'em. The Springfield frame has a .220 tang radius, as opposed to Colt's .250, and will require the appropriate grip safety.



Cheers!
TUner
 
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1911Tuner, I tried your method of testing the extractor by pulling the slide back and seeing if the round ejects or falls into the mag well. On all three of my Kimbers the rounds fell into the mag well. Two of these pistols have seen a lot of use and rarely malfunction. By rarely, I mean one feeding problem every three or four hundred rounds using my own reloads.

So, should I be concerned?

BTW, thanks for all of the info you post here. If nothing else, you've saved THR members hundreds of dollars in long-distance calls to the various 1911 manufacturers' customer service centers!
 
Monkeyleg, 1911 tuner et al,

Well, I finally got out to test my springfield milspec with my home-tuned extractor. $150 rds with no malfunctions except that after round ~100 the gun suddenly developed an allergy to loading the first round off a Wilson Combat 8rnder loaded with 8 rounds. It would start to feed but wouldn't go all the way into battery. I would with a nudge or occasionally needed a sharp slap. After three of these malfunctions I loaded 7 rds in the mags and it didn't appear again. So I am chalking that up to the mags.

- The gun now chucks brass like a brass chucking machine. Before I tuned the extractor, the brass ejected in an inconsistent pattern. Now it puts them all in the same or very close to same trajectory. I fired about 5 mags spread through the session where I held the gun on target and just watched the brass eject.

- After the 150 rounds, the extractor still held the round to the breech face.

The gun is now at the local smith's to have the USGI grip saftey tang dehorned and to have the grip saftey and extractor re-parkerized. When it gets back, it's going to my full time carry piece until August.

I guess I fixed something that wasn't broke. As I mentioned previously, the gun was functioning but brass wasn't ejecting like some other pistols that I own. So I decided to ignore the fact that one local smith told me that extractor tension is completely useless to the function of the 1911 (I won't tell you about what he did to a friend's gun, a friend that has spent literally tens of thousands of dollars in his shop) and research it and make an informed decision myself. 1911 tuners posts and some reading that I have done offline have convinced me that I want to make sure that the extractor is tuned in my 1911.

As for kimbers functioning without extractor tension: I'm not surprised. My springer will cycle, about half the time, if I removed the extractor from the gun. See 1911 Tuner's previous comments on this subject. I guess extractor tension isn't strictly necessary but I am convinced that it's necessary to ensure reliable function.

Why do manufacturers ship their guns with no extractor tension, or low quality internal extractors? There are lots of opinions on this subject. Most feel that the gun manufacturers are cutting corners. I am sure that fitting an extractor to the gun with proper tension would add cost.

Today I took a dummy round (real brass & fmj bullet, case weighted, but with no primer or powder) to a store with a wide 1911 selection. They weren't happy at first about me wanting to put the dummy round in the guns to test the extractor tension. I tried several NIB Kimber, Springfield, Colt, Armscor, RIA or Dan Wesson internal extractor models in the store and none of them had enough tension on the extractor to pass 1911 Tuner's tests above. This activity started up a somewhat lively conversation with the store's staff and a few of their other customers. Two of the clerks were completely nonplussed by the discussion, one saying "If you want a pistol that doesn't need tuning, get a Glock." Another was strongly in favor of a tuned extractor, saying "That's why I'd only buy and STI, a Wilson or an Ed Brown". They had an Ed Brown CQB, NIB, in the case but I had already worn out my welcome at that point. When I left a few of the customers were still telling their favorite 1911 reliability and smithing stories. I'll wait a week or two and go back there and try thier STIs and thier Ed Browns.
 
My mitutoyo calipers (ordered on eBay) arrived today. I also have some tools on order from Midway, along with a bunch of OEM 7rd mags.
 
Tuner - A big thanks to you for all your willingness to help on this forum. You're a big asset.

Monkeyleg - just a comment on your Kimber. Not trying to be a smart aleck or anything, but a failure rate of one round in 300-400 rounds is not "rarely". To me that's high. Maybe you already know that and maybe it's just the dimensions of your reloads. Do you have the same failure rate with factory ammo?

Steve
 
Tension Mounting

Dominic said:

I guess extractor tension isn't strictly necessary but I am convinced that it's necessary to ensure reliable function.

It is on many guns. Some are timed at just the right point that they don't,
but more aren't. Best to err on the side of caution and set the tension.
---------------------------------------------
I am sure that fitting an extractor to the gun with proper tension would add cost.

Bingo.
-----------------------------------------

one saying "If you want a pistol that doesn't need tuning, get a Glock."

Oh yeah! There has never been a Glock that failed to extract. Ever!:rolleyes:
-------------------------------------

one local smith told me that extractor tension is completely useless to the function of the 1911 (I won't tell you about what he did to a friend's gun, a friend that has spent literally tens of thousands of dollars in his shop)

Yeah...There are a lotta those around. There's one in this area that I follow
a lot. His trigger work goes south in about 5,000 rounds, and hammers start to follow the slide. The guy who told you that extractor tension was useless probably saw a few run without one, and assumed that they're
ALL able to do it. Not so. Everything has to be just right, and I'm not too
sure that if one does it, that it's functioning correctly. I do know that if
I'm going to be far from home, I want one with me that will do it.
-----------------------------------------
with 8 rounds. It would start to feed but wouldn't go all the way into battery. I would with a nudge or occasionally needed a sharp slap. After three of these malfunctions I loaded 7 rds in the mags and it didn't appear again. So I am chalking that up to the mags.

That's a magazine issue. The problem is that the upward tension on the
follower is higher at the rear, and lower at the front. The problem with
the Wilson-Rogers follower/spring design is that it doesn't give much leeway for tuning the spring at the front of the top loop to strike a balance. If you'll check, you'll probably find some movement downward at the front of the follower with the magazine empty. Bending the top loop of the spring just slightly upward may help. Just a little. Don't stretch the spring. That will help for a short time, but the problem will return quickly, and probably worse than it was.
-------------------------------------------
Steve said:

Tuner - A big thanks to you for all your willingness to help on this forum. You're a big asset.

Mighty welcome Steve. Happy to help
---------------------------------------------

Monkeyleg - just a comment on your Kimber. Not trying to be a smart aleck or anything, but a failure rate of one round in 300-400 rounds is not "rarely". To me that's high.

I have to agree, and sorry for not addressing it. Duty called, and in my haste, I forgot the point.

As stated, reloads often fail for no other reason than being out-of-spec.
if he doesn't have the same failure rate with his carry ammo, then it's a
non-issue. But if the malfunction is there with his carry ammo, it needs to be looked into. Monkeyleg, describe the malfunction exactly, and under what circumstances.

Standin' by...

Tuner


---------------------------------------
 
The malfunctions are generally from improper crimping or not crimping a case, so that the slide doesn't go completely into battery. I do my crimping as a separate step, and once in awhile I'll accidentally skip a cartridge.

Last year, while doing the range part of the LFI course, my Pro Carry started acting up, not feeding properly. It was around 90 degrees, we were going through tons of ammo, and I had only oiled the rails, not greased them. A bit of Tetra lube solved that problem.

Due to financial constraints it's been quite some time since I've shot factory ammo through any of them. I'll try to do so in the next few days and see if there are any problems.
 
Grease the Rails

Monkeyleg said:

Last year, while doing the range part of the LFI course, my Pro Carry started acting up, not feeding properly. It was around 90 degrees, we were going through tons of ammo, and I had only oiled the rails, not greased them. A bit of Tetra lube solved that problem.

Want to solve that problem forever and not have to depend on trick lubes?
Here's how...

Get some CLP Breakfree and a small tub of J&B Bore Cleaner. Put a tablespoon full of the CLP in a small cup. Add bore cleaner to it and mix
until you get a paste that will just start to sag off the tip of a screwdriver,
but not thin enough to drip off.

Coat the frame rails, locking lugs, lower lug and slidestop pin, link, the
sides of the chamber area of the barrel, inside the barrel bushing, and
a dab on the disconnector/cocking rail.

Remove the recoil system...spring, plug, and guide rod. Hand-cycle the
slide about 125-200 times. Rinse the slurry out with Gunk Carb medic,
use just a small amount in the rails for a lube, and use CLP to lube the rest of the parts where you normally use oil. Go shoot the gun about 50 times, and clean it out again when you finish. Oil and reassemble it. It'll feel like buttered glass, and shooting it hot won't be an issue any more.

Try it. Betcha you'll like it.;)

Cheerios! (Honey-Nut)

Tuner
 
new para extractor

Tuner,

Is your CLP/JB mix recommended for guns with Parkerized finishes? if so, I might try it.

This is a great thread! Tuner, I may have to spend some time going through your THR posts and compiling a "1911 Tuner Faq". Sorry, but I love organizing data. I'll email your a copy and will only make it available to others (post it on a website) at your discretion and would otherwise just keep it for my own purposes.

Speaking of Extractors....look at the inside back page of Shotgun News!

para-1.jpg



closeup of the miracle extractor:
para-2.jpg


Begin Para's advert
... is the 21 st century incarnation of the world's greatest pistol. Now, Para's patent pending Power Extractor eliminates the weakest link in the original design of this great pistol. The new Para Power Extractor is a massive claw that gives you 50 percent more contact with the rim of the .45 ACP case for controlled feeding of the cartridge from the magazine into the chamber and positive extraction for infallible ejection of the empty case.

The Power Extractor's pivoting claw is always under proper tension, shot after shot. Only from the innovative genius of Para comes a massive internal extractor that enhances the performance of the 1911, while maintaining the matchless esthetics of this classic design.

Make sure that you're getting the ultimate 1911 pistol; look for the new Para Power Extractor" mark on the slide of the 1911 at your favorite dealer.



Everybody's always looking for an angle! Don't like the LOOK of external extractors! Buy our SUPER INTERNAL extractor! LOL
 
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