FBI nieghbor - Wyatt Earp or Just Careful?

[toolmaker]

Interestingly, a former neighbor and acquaintance, who's been to my house for cookouts, etc is an ATF agent. As good a neighbor as you could ever hope to have. He knows my hobby, has a personal interest in the shooting sports (grew up around guns, etc) and has even given me personal .44 mag ammo he no longer had use for (likes my 10 inch Super Blackhawk). He and his family are always welcome in my home. As a friend.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

I still think of the FBI as "College boys with guns", but they've come a LONG way since the days of J. Edgar Hoover (I still can't figure out why Hoover gave the ORDER that agents couldn't make left turns while driving FBI vehicles!).

Old J. Edgar was hit while his limo was turning left one time. He then decreed that all turns had to go around the block to the right when he was in his limo.

See the book "No Left Turns" by someone who's name I can't remember which was a tell all book by a retired agent.

 

[bogie]

But I can't help but wonder what his motivation is for open carry.

Because he can. Works for me.

 

[Skipper]

My neighbors would think something was very wrong if they saw me w/o a sidearm. One day I when I was at my grandkids house (only one mile away),I wasn't carrying for some reason and the kids all noticed and thought it was strange. I don't have to go to a closet or a drawer at home if I need a gun,I just put my hand on my side.
Out and about,shopping and etc,I always carry concealed. I don't want to draw attention and become a target for a BG. One way or the other, I'm ALWAYS armed.

SKIP

 

[Island Beretta]

important to understand that a gun on or off your hip doesnt necessarily make you a target either way... really it is more about YOU and the presence you portray...an open carry gun may or may not raise the perception of 'danger' which is what the BGs assess you off....

 

[Skipper]

I.B.,

If I walk into a robbery in progress,or a situation where a robbery is ABOUT to be in progress,and I'm openly armed,guess who is target numero uno.
I don't want to be seen as a threat in a situation like that,but rather a definite "non-threat". Then, if I DO need to act, I'll have at least SOME element of surprise on my side.(probably badly needed surprise!!)
Just my philosophy, but I'm always open to learning.

Regards,

SKIP

 

[Byron Quick]

I'm not questioning his rights. My question is why he'd give up the tactical advantage of carrying concealed. It's seems foolish.

Colt,

I think you're making an assumption here as to the tactical advantage of concealed carry. The assailant may, in his turn, make the same assumption I do,i.e, everyone is armed. Oops, there went your tactical advantage.

Before Georgia had concealed carry, open carry without permission was legal here. I open carried for years. IWB at four o'clock. Maybe ten percent of people made me. From comments, about 90% of the folks who were aware enough to see the gun in open sight assumed I was a LEO, regardless of the long hair, beard, and sandals. I've even had people ask if I was undercover. I carried a revolver in blue jeans that had worn the hip pocket white in the perfect shape of a revolver. No one ever commented on that.

In conclusion, for a number of reasons, I don't believe that concealed carry is necessarily a tactical advantage nor do I believe that open carry is necessarily surrendering that tactical advantage.

You could probably epoxy a holster to your forehead, carry a gun into public in it, and be absolutely astounded by just how many people walked by oblivious to you. Most people are so far into condition white that it is utterly amazing.

I'm often amused by people who call vests "shoot me first vests." If I was a bad guy, I'd be operating under the "shoot everyone" rule.

 

[MikeIsaj]

He doesn't have a "right" to, he has a "privilege". If it was a right we would all be doing it.

In Pa. he does have a right, as we all do.

 

[justashooter]

In Pennsylvania, you don't even need a permit to carry open... QUOTE]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/25thedition/index.htm

read the text in 6106, which makes concealed carry of a "firearm" (handgun, or sbs/sbr) without a liscense a 3rd degree felony, or a misdemeanor if there is no reason not to issue liscense if applied for.

6109a specifies that the liscense is good only for carrying concealed. 6109e reiterates the concealed carry provision.

of course, hunters engaged in sport or traveling to sport are excepted in carry of a handgun under the sportsmen's permit, 6106c, if they apply for it.

someone you lend you car to is also immune from prosecution if you gun is found in the car while they are operating, and if they are otherwise eligible to apply for permit.

6106 subsection 11, interestingly, enables permit holders of all states to carry while in their vehicle (as in transit).


what i do not see is language controlling open carry, except with regard to philadelphia under 6108.

i always assumed penna was concealed only, but under the strict interpretation of the statute, it appears that open carry is only prohibited in philadelphia. of course, if a cop wanted to make your day uncomfortable, there are other laws to apply, i'm sure.

 

[Geno]

Skipper...exactly correct

I carry 24/7. If I am awake (except in the classroom) I have at least 1 pistol strapped to me, either one of my Colt 1911s, a Glock 17 or a combination. Even in the shower, the Glock is on the hanging basket.

My caution probably stems back to our occupied house being broken into went I was about 8 or 9 ... yes, we were home. Wierd situation. We also had several other attempted B & Es, and one assualt thwarted when the BGs noted the rifle beside me, and other situations. My brother-in-law was a cop, later he advanced into undercover narcotics detective and finally was promoted to being a detective. That could have fostered a bit of the increased "targeting" our home/family.

But, I really do prefer concealed carry. Let the BG learn the hard way. I do believe though, that there is a SLIGHT tactical advantage...can it be quantified...doubtful, but even if it is mere a sense of self-assuredness, what is the price of peace-of-mind? I know where I get mine.

Besides, I think it's great to watch the "security" folks when at the gunshow I have to check my magazines...my retort to their request that I deposit my mags into this ziplock bag is, "No, fellas...one ziplock bag isn't gonna make it!" When they see me peel off 10, 19-round Glock mags, and 6 or more 10-round .45 mags they invariably ask me "Where in the he## do you live...or work?!"

When I say "Detroit", that seems to justify it. It's well-known fact, that the Detoit Police can delay WELL OVER an hour in arriving. When I learned of that statistic, I learned how to cram spare magazines into every pocket and under every reachable part of my clothing. I detailed in one thread what I typiocally carry. By the way, anyone else's 19-round Glock mags. actually hold 20 rounds? Mine do.

Thanks for this thread...it was a GREAT read! I appreciated the views!

Doc2005

 

[XLMiguel]

Howdy - I'd wait to form an opinion until you meet the guy, but, I don't know what part of PA you're in or what your neighborhood is like. I'm in suburban VA, inside the beltway, have had a few neighbors with the Secret Service, FBI, other assorted federal agencies, [specops] military and Ffx Co police. All made it a point to be discrete, though I'm sure most were armed 95% of the time, even just pushing a lawnmower (and it's a nice enough neighborhood-). It could just be the neighborhood, but all made an effort to stay off the radar. FWIW

 

[Oldtimer]

Colt, I didn't mean to get your dander up, but you DID say that he openly carries "24/7"....and that's a VERY broad brush stroke!

The wording of your original post seemed as if you had a problem with his exposed carrying, but now you're saying that it ISN'T a problem with you!
After all, you KNEW that he was an FBI agent before actually meeting him in person, and I'm sure that you realize that federal law enforcement agents ARE required to carry firearms!

You "hope" that your new FBI neighbor is pro-gun?
What if he ISN'T? About 99.9% of all FBI agents are college grads, and at one time, the FBI only accepted lawyers and Certified Public Accountants into their agency. YEP! Now, however, a 4-year college degree is all that is required. How many college grads are actually PRO-gun, after having gone through the mostly liberal colleges and universities?

Don't peek through the window, hoping to "catch" him carrying openly again! Soothe your curiousity by politely introducing yourself. After that, work it up to asking him why he openly carries in the neighborhood. I, for one, hope that you post an up-date after finding out his reason(s)! Maybe, just maybe, you can become friends with that new neighbor...even if he DOES prove to be anti-gun!
At least he has gone through the strenuous FBI Academy training, and that might benefit YOU after getting to know him better!

 

[Felonious Monk]

My father was an FBI agent for 30 years.
This was him:

SOOO hesitant to reveal so, that I basically had to "pester" to be able even to see a badge. They were both so extremely low-key that I was truly, deeply impressed. They were humble, modest...they were congitively as-sharp-as tacks too! Neither ever open carried. Perhaps a reflection of the changing times.

Doc2005

...unfortunately, Dad is now mildly anti-.
Go figure.

 

[NewShooter]

Hey Colt, I'm your new neighbor. Come over for coffee sometime.
Just kidding.
But seriously, If he's a gun owner he could very well be on this board reading this and laughing.

 

[Rezin]

The couple agents who I have known were SOOO hesitant to reveal so, that I basically had to "pester" to be able even to see a badge. They were both so extremely low-key that I was truly, deeply impressed. They were humble, modest...they were congitively as-sharp-as tacks too! Neither ever open carried. Perhaps a reflection of the changing times.

When I was stationed in New Orleans, my offices were in the same building as the local FBI feild office. It was a full year before I realized whch ones were the agents, they were all so low key.

 

[fisherman66]

I wish more LEO's would open carry at all times.

 

[fisherman66]

Ok, it's settled then. Around noon tmw I'll saunter up to his front door wearing a black cowboy hat and a Colt SAA.

When he comes to the door, I'll announce: "Law don't go 'round here."

Please wear some pants too.

 

[Joejojoba111]

That's his 'Python', for back-up.

 

[fisherman66]

Joe,

It's taking all the restain in the world not to use words like "snubby, vent rib, barrel crown, rubber grip, trigger happy, half cocked, ect."

I will just bite my tongue and let them all go without uttering a word.

 

[Colt]

I had hoped to make my neighbor's aquaintance this weekend, but he seems to be out of town. Didn't see him all weekend.

I plan to introduce myself at the next opportunity, though. For those interested, I'll post the outcome. I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

 

[Bob F.]

Actually, I clicked back onto this thread tonight to see if there was an update after you'd met him. Real interested to see what you think then.

Ustabe: men wore suit to church and funerals, detectives (plainclothes LEOs) wore suits or sportcoats, uniform LEOs wore uniforms, not BDU pants, t-shirts and ball caps. Yeah, yeah: I know, I'm a freakin' dinosaur but I like it.

I'm not LEO but do have CHL. Carry as much as possible. Sometimes on the 3 acre yard (semi-rural) I open carry but try not to flash it( the gun, the gun!)
Prefer concealed.
I'm pretty much with Mike and Felonious, et als. Get to know him, first.

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[rudolf]

Last year I had some trouble with two turkish youths who wanted to hassle me, I resolved it with a baton. One had pulled starter gun and was quite surprised when he was beaten. Well, I figured next time they'll be four or six, so I openly carried a short sword (21") for a few months, even when going for a drink. The folks at the bar knew me and just joked about it. The display worked, no more hassles. Sometimes it is just better to show what will happen.

BTW, no gun carry over here, but all blades legal. No need to discuss legality or 'better have a gun'.

If half of the customers of a store carry open, who will want to rob it?

 

[Bobarino]

i open carry if i'm working in the backyard simply because the OWB holster is much more comfortable that the IWB one, especially when shovelling or raking etc. the neighbors to the side and behind the house can see me but neither has ever mentioned anything. i don't open carry in the front yard where there is a lot of traffic driving by. i do the IWB concealed thing in that case. open carrying in the yard is just an issue of comfort for me.

Bobby

 

[outofbattery]

I was in line at the grocery and one of our town detectives was at the checkout in usual khakis,golf shirt and G-27 OWB attire.After he bagged his groceries and left the woman in front of me said *what's it come to that people have to bring guns to the supermarket?* and I told her that he's a local LEO that chooses not to wear a uniform but of course didn't feel the need to tell her I had a P239 on my hip as well

 

[MadMercS55]

One of my neighbor's is a detective for the local PD. He wears a suit\tie to work every day. I work mostly nights and we pass often in the mornings, come summertime, he's often seen carrying his coat, thus his sidearm being open carried. I live in PA as well, and we are allowed to do so. I've done it as well on several occasions and while it's easier in hot weather, I'm not per se 100% comfortable with it (perceived security issues). On a few hot summer nights when I've had to run to the store for milk etc, I've open carried without so much as a word from other customers, most didn't even notice as far as I could tell. I personally prefer concealed, but when open carry is legal, and you prefer it, then why not? Just be safe either way.