Feminine Protection
- Thread starter Gordy Wesen
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Jammer Six
member
Yes, I've heard that logic before.
I've heard it applied to "good natured jests" about race, religion, economic standing, geographic location of birth, and nationality, to name a few.
They weren't funny then, either.
While you may well be a member of his choir, and are free to count yourself as such, there are many here who do, indeed, travel the high road, and will not stand to be counted as a member of that church, let alone that choir.
"A look at his statements..." should include all his statements, if you wish to make them an issue, and a look at all his statements will show a very clear pattern.
And finally, yes, taking offense at offensive material is very definitely the high road.
Letting it pass, while certainly the easier, softer way, in my opinion, simply isn't.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, etc., etc. ..."
semf
member
Yeah I think it was calling her VC that finally got my butt kicked, That and the fact that she is crazy. I should have known the first time I patted her on the head and she chased me through te house with a butcher knife, Im told that this is the equivilent of spitting on the crucifix worn by a Catholic.
Gordy Wesen
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Oh boy.
When we had a peeper (25 years ago) all I had was a DW .22. The wife was happy with that and felt better when I left town for my mothers funeral. She was comforted but was she well armed? Was the DA right for her small enthusiastic hands? As I began to read, I saw changes were in order. I grilled us on "chicken walking", situational awareness and not looking like a victim. We both benefited...and I started shooting more. A gun has to do 2 things: go bang each and every time you pull the trigger and, be accurate. I take the responsibility to sift through and make sure these types of guns are available to her and I have made it a point to not own certain guns if she can not easily shoot them. She has gravitated to the G 36. Cool. I reload softballs for it and that makes it even more fun for her to shoot.
We have gone back to back to fight off dogs with pepper spray so I know she's got stones and she is familiar with spray. Of the knives I picked (including autos) she ended up liking a three edged 01 box cutter. Is it what I would have chosen? Nope, but she likes it. Its her box opener on occasion and it is fearsomely sharp. The cell phone is an invaluable tool for her also.
I appreciate the ideas and input. Thanks. And you know, if I ever want to learn the easiest ways and the best tools for needlepoint or call center management she's my resource. You won't find me sorting through reams of crap to find what works. It goes both ways.
When we had a peeper (25 years ago) all I had was a DW .22. The wife was happy with that and felt better when I left town for my mothers funeral. She was comforted but was she well armed? Was the DA right for her small enthusiastic hands? As I began to read, I saw changes were in order. I grilled us on "chicken walking", situational awareness and not looking like a victim. We both benefited...and I started shooting more. A gun has to do 2 things: go bang each and every time you pull the trigger and, be accurate. I take the responsibility to sift through and make sure these types of guns are available to her and I have made it a point to not own certain guns if she can not easily shoot them. She has gravitated to the G 36. Cool. I reload softballs for it and that makes it even more fun for her to shoot.
We have gone back to back to fight off dogs with pepper spray so I know she's got stones and she is familiar with spray. Of the knives I picked (including autos) she ended up liking a three edged 01 box cutter. Is it what I would have chosen? Nope, but she likes it. Its her box opener on occasion and it is fearsomely sharp. The cell phone is an invaluable tool for her also.
I appreciate the ideas and input. Thanks. And you know, if I ever want to learn the easiest ways and the best tools for needlepoint or call center management she's my resource. You won't find me sorting through reams of crap to find what works. It goes both ways.
twoblink
Member
Spoon -> Fork --> Knife --> Tactical Chopsticks..
We start slow, and work them up to what they can handle at a time.
My gf probably doesn't know what gun is best for her, but she does know what is most comfortable to her. So I will probably present her with some good choices, and let her pick the one she's most comfortable with..
And Pax is right. Teaching your significant other is a difficult task.. But then again, I'm anal and don't trust her quality of instruction to just anybody.
my gf currently carries a 3.5" folder knife on her, (no guns allowed in Taiwan!!
) and more importantly, she's more than willing to use it if the situation called for it.
That's the key. Your wife/gf having a gun isn't worth spit if she's not really willing to take a life in self defense or defense of others..
We start slow, and work them up to what they can handle at a time.
My gf probably doesn't know what gun is best for her, but she does know what is most comfortable to her. So I will probably present her with some good choices, and let her pick the one she's most comfortable with..
And Pax is right. Teaching your significant other is a difficult task.. But then again, I'm anal and don't trust her quality of instruction to just anybody.
my gf currently carries a 3.5" folder knife on her, (no guns allowed in Taiwan!!
) and more importantly, she's more than willing to use it if the situation called for it.That's the key. Your wife/gf having a gun isn't worth spit if she's not really willing to take a life in self defense or defense of others..
Gordy Wesen
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And another thing, its demeaning to men to say that teaching the spouse leads to conflict. I say if there's a problem, talk about it..negotiate the best path and remember (to paraphrase Clint Smith), 'a woman will always rise to the level of her training.' Teach what you know and go for help to the next step when you need it.
Trisha
Member
Gordy;
Martial arts are good - see if the two of you can find the way and the time to attend, as a couple, and go for the long-term.
Susan, my partner of the past 12 years, is a 1st Dan Black Belt. We both train in edged weapons (conventional, and unconventional). If you're so inclined, run a search on my postings - you'll see pictures of our communal weapons.
I carry a .45 every day, shoulder holster more often than hip carry - and there's a S&W bodyguard .357 in my purse (when it's not in my back pocket).
Situational awareness, and rehearsing tactics is almost a mantra around here. We've both 'seen the elephant' and survived. more than a couple of times.
While knowledge is power, training is a mandate, because we KNOW we fight as we have trained.
Best wishes to you both.
Trisha
Martial arts are good - see if the two of you can find the way and the time to attend, as a couple, and go for the long-term.
Susan, my partner of the past 12 years, is a 1st Dan Black Belt. We both train in edged weapons (conventional, and unconventional). If you're so inclined, run a search on my postings - you'll see pictures of our communal weapons.
I carry a .45 every day, shoulder holster more often than hip carry - and there's a S&W bodyguard .357 in my purse (when it's not in my back pocket).
Situational awareness, and rehearsing tactics is almost a mantra around here. We've both 'seen the elephant' and survived. more than a couple of times.
While knowledge is power, training is a mandate, because we KNOW we fight as we have trained.
Best wishes to you both.
Trisha
Gordy,
I don't see how what I said could possibly be construed as demeaning to men. What I said was, "It is generally a bad idea for people who are married or dating seriously to teach their partners how to shoot." Not only was the statement itself gender-neutral, but in context of my post it's more easily read as saying it's a bad idea for women to teach their men how to shoot!
In any case, the statement was based on my experience and observations after watching many other people learn to shoot. Your experiences may vary, and so might your observations. But here's what I've seen and where I've seen it, so you know where I'm coming from.
For the past three years, I've been a range bum at a mid-size regional shooting school. I've been volunteering as an RO/assistant instructor for about a year now and have watched perhaps 100 people this year learn how to shoot. In that time, I've seen what works and what doesn't work for a fairly large number of new shooters.
I can tell you from watching that the people whose spouses, lovers, or partners are hovering over them are the ones who most often shoot the poorest and learn the least. I've seen several women come back the next day or the next week for our women's study group, and they are almost always considerably more relaxed and able to learn when their men aren't in tow. I've seen men come back for the next class, without their wives, and they are almost invariably more able to hear the instruction that is given them and more able to do what they need to do when their wives aren't standing next to or behind them.
I don't believe this is demeaning to either gender; it is simply my observation that beginning shooters tend to do better when the people teaching them don't have an emotional investiture in the process.
In any case, I agree with you that
The difficulty is that many people find the issues surrounding self-defense to be extremely emotional. It is very, very hard to step back from that emotional involvement in order to either be the best student or the best teacher you can be, when the subject itself is emotional and there is also an emotional entanglement with the person teaching you.
Sure, all the above can be overcome, and there are couples who are able to negotiate the emotional pitfalls. But if the idea is to encourage the people we love to learn to shoot, why not make the process as stress free as possible?
pax
Nobody will ever win the Battle of the Sexes. There's just too much fraternizing with the enemy. -- Henry Kissinger
BluesBear
member
I think she really wasn't armed. She was just a woman with a gun.
Just having a gun is not enough, (read my sig lines) just as having a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter.
You have to have the warrior spirit to defend yourself. You need the carpenter spirit to build a house.
Teaching the woman in your life to shoot?
Hells Bells, most people think it's a bad idea to teach a family member to drive. I only tried it once. But then I was an NRA instructor then and I told her she had to take my class just like anyone else. In class she was ONLY a student to me. I did my best to treat her no dfifferently than the people who actually paid to take the class. The big difference was that she realy really wanted to learn.
Trying to force any woman to learn anything they don't want to learn is like trying to make a pig swim.
Wakal
Member
My wife carries a Kel-Tec P40 and a Emerson CQC-7. She competes in IPSC with a STI in 9 by 23 Supercomp, though, so actual milage may vary.
We are both professional firearms instructors...and her "woman's only" class experiences match Pax's statements exactly. Funny how much better a tyro learns when their spouse isn't hanging off their arm interfering with the instructor
Alex
We are both professional firearms instructors...and her "woman's only" class experiences match Pax's statements exactly. Funny how much better a tyro learns when their spouse isn't hanging off their arm interfering with the instructor
Alex
Bluesbear: Good points.
Agree most definitely. Too many emotions.
Nonetheless, when guns are thrust upon the unwilling by the well meaning, we are going to see more of this. My own family, by no means pacifist, has no intention of going heeled and blowing some BG away. Sorry, ain't gonna happen no matter how much I wish it.
Yep. Unfortunately, it ain't given out all that much.
Agree most definitely. Too many emotions. That is what too many people are doing, imho, letting their wishful thinking override reality. Need to be objective and recognize gunplay does not comprise a part of the vast majority's thinking or skill set.
Lupine
Member
From a lady's perspective
There is truth in the statement that women, in general, aren't as familiar with guns as men are. Here in the US, young boys get more exposure to the gun culture with warlike toys and video games. While the lines are more blurred nowadays, I do believe there's a truth to that.
Also, a lot of girls have never learned the finer points of playground brawling. I was the youngest of five girls. Dad used to box when in the Merchant Marine academy. When I came along, he pretty much sighed, threw up his arms, and said, "well, this one's doomed to be a tomboy." So I learned to box, but I never really had the immersion in "boy culture" to practice. Teach your daughters/nieces to fight, and to fight dirty if they have to.
Also, and applicable to both sexes, the region/culture in which a person grows up may affect his or her knowledge of guns. I had a lot of hunters in my family, so guns were around. But I know a lot of people who have never seen a gun in "real life" other than on an officer's belt.
As long as one doesn't try to completely control his or her partner's training, there's no reason you can't teach your other half how to shoot. But it depends upon the relationship. I've taught a few boyfriends how to ski, for example; but there have also been one or two I know would have been better off with a pro instructor. Allow your student to take charge of his or her education, training and weapon choices, while offering yourself as a resource. Keep your own ego out of it, even if you do "know everything."
Besides, if he/she learns from more sources than just you, you'll have the chance to learn from your partner, further enriching your new shared interest and your relationship on the whole.
Don't be offended if your partner selects a handgun or caliber outside your range of suggestions. Hopefully she won't be doing it out of spite, but as a result of research, trial and error on her own part. My first handgun of choice is quite different from the ones suggested to me by friends "in the know," but I'm confident in my choice (9mm Kahr), thankful for their guidance and support, and pleased with the journey that led me to making my decision.
There is truth in the statement that women, in general, aren't as familiar with guns as men are. Here in the US, young boys get more exposure to the gun culture with warlike toys and video games. While the lines are more blurred nowadays, I do believe there's a truth to that.
Also, a lot of girls have never learned the finer points of playground brawling. I was the youngest of five girls. Dad used to box when in the Merchant Marine academy. When I came along, he pretty much sighed, threw up his arms, and said, "well, this one's doomed to be a tomboy." So I learned to box, but I never really had the immersion in "boy culture" to practice. Teach your daughters/nieces to fight, and to fight dirty if they have to.
Also, and applicable to both sexes, the region/culture in which a person grows up may affect his or her knowledge of guns. I had a lot of hunters in my family, so guns were around. But I know a lot of people who have never seen a gun in "real life" other than on an officer's belt.
As long as one doesn't try to completely control his or her partner's training, there's no reason you can't teach your other half how to shoot. But it depends upon the relationship. I've taught a few boyfriends how to ski, for example; but there have also been one or two I know would have been better off with a pro instructor. Allow your student to take charge of his or her education, training and weapon choices, while offering yourself as a resource. Keep your own ego out of it, even if you do "know everything."
Besides, if he/she learns from more sources than just you, you'll have the chance to learn from your partner, further enriching your new shared interest and your relationship on the whole.
Don't be offended if your partner selects a handgun or caliber outside your range of suggestions. Hopefully she won't be doing it out of spite, but as a result of research, trial and error on her own part. My first handgun of choice is quite different from the ones suggested to me by friends "in the know," but I'm confident in my choice (9mm Kahr), thankful for their guidance and support, and pleased with the journey that led me to making my decision.
TonyB
Member
It's been my observation that women are actually EASIER to TEACH than men...you give a guy a gun and he thinks he knows how to use it just because he has testies..........women will actually LISTEN and do what you tell them......guys just "KNOW" how to shoot from watching JohnWayne movies all their lives......Women have better hand eye coordination and can do lots of things at once.........some guys are clutses........just me experience .........(I hope my wife is reading this...)..but seriously,if a lady is serious about learning how to shoot,I think they pick it up fast and become pretty good........
BluesBear
member
TonyB you are correct.
I too have found out that women are easier to teach than men. I have taught several who had husbans/boyfriends try to teach them already.
During slow times at the range we didn't enfore the 1 person per lane strictly. But I used it a few times when Bubbah would bring his lady in and then berate her because she couldn't shoot "his way".
Those were the ones I really enjoyed teaching because after it was all over they could usually shoot rings around good old Bubbah. Heck a few could outshoot ME.
I too have found out that women are easier to teach than men. I have taught several who had husbans/boyfriends try to teach them already.
During slow times at the range we didn't enfore the 1 person per lane strictly. But I used it a few times when Bubbah would bring his lady in and then berate her because she couldn't shoot "his way".
Those were the ones I really enjoyed teaching because after it was all over they could usually shoot rings around good old Bubbah.
Heck a few could outshoot ME.Gordy Wesen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
- Messages
- 422
interesting.
got your hairs up, huh pax?
I wasn't attacking your comment, just sticking up for the guys.
got your hairs up, huh pax?
I wasn't attacking your comment, just sticking up for the guys.
Gordy,
Not at all.
It was simply an explanation for those who didn't understand my first post.
pax
When we cannot ward off the truth with any other pretext, we flee from it by ascribing it to a fierce temper, impatience, and immodesty. -- Martin Luther
Not at all.
It was simply an explanation for those who didn't understand my first post.
pax
When we cannot ward off the truth with any other pretext, we flee from it by ascribing it to a fierce temper, impatience, and immodesty. -- Martin Luther
Thanks Pax, that little verse describes me to a "T"
I have often stated that I know a lot about 2, or 3 subjects and just enough about everything else, to get me into trouble.I also, have to agree with what you said about spouses teaching each other. Too much going on there and they are often less patient, or obstinate....depending on whether they are the teacher, or the teachee
It's easier, less stressful and in the long run cheaper to hire someone to do the teaching.It's cheaper to keep her, but sometimes it's worth the cost.......
GySgt
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Heaven help the BG that attempts to take on Mrs. 7.62. She is independant, intelligent, tough, and forward (among other definite attributes). If a BG is dumb enough to overlook the confident, non-victim posture.....If the BG can survive the "look" .....then you will confront the mechanical weapons 
. Which vary depending on the moon, stars, attire....
She chooses her own tools and methods. We work on the training "together" (i.e. she tells me what she wants and I accommodate). We both train the babbies.
NEVER underestimate the resourcefulness of the fairer sex.
.....then you will confront the mechanical weapons . Which vary depending on the moon, stars, attire....She chooses her own tools and methods. We work on the training "together" (i.e. she tells me what she wants and I accommodate). We both train the babbies.
NEVER underestimate the resourcefulness of the fairer sex.
Jammer,
I'm disappointed in you.....calling me a troll and all. Here you preach following the high road like it's some kind of religion or something and then you revert to name calling....tisk, tisk. I'm trying to add a little humor to this forum and still make a point, even if I have to play devil's advocate. Besides, I like to hear politically correct libs like you whine anyway.
Most of the arguments made about women being able to make their own decisions are correct, but given the "average" woman's interests, they do not have the info to make an educated guess about firearms. Now that obviously doesn't include the tomboy's/pants wearers on this forum, but some of them, seem to have watched too much "Rosie" as well. All things being equal, I'm not qualified to put together anything but the most rudimentary of meals, unless I can put everything on the barbeque. The difference is, I'm honest and secure enough to admit that I don't know everything women do. Too bad some women can't get that women's lib chip off their shoulder and not only admit they don't know everything, but learn to be happy about it.
Y'all can save the "I need a better woman" routine too, I've got one and she is the best!!! She doesn't try to take over the remote control on Super Bowl Sunday and I don't try to take over the kitchen on Thanksgiving 
GySgt
I'm disappointed in you.....calling me a troll and all. Here you preach following the high road like it's some kind of religion or something and then you revert to name calling....tisk, tisk. I'm trying to add a little humor to this forum and still make a point, even if I have to play devil's advocate. Besides, I like to hear politically correct libs like you whine anyway.
Most of the arguments made about women being able to make their own decisions are correct, but given the "average" woman's interests, they do not have the info to make an educated guess about firearms. Now that obviously doesn't include the tomboy's/pants wearers on this forum, but some of them, seem to have watched too much "Rosie" as well. All things being equal, I'm not qualified to put together anything but the most rudimentary of meals, unless I can put everything on the barbeque. The difference is, I'm honest and secure enough to admit that I don't know everything women do. Too bad some women can't get that women's lib chip off their shoulder and not only admit they don't know everything, but learn to be happy about it.
Y'all can save the "I need a better woman" routine too, I've got one and she is the best!!! She doesn't try to take over the remote control on Super Bowl Sunday and I don't try to take over the kitchen on Thanksgiving
GySgt
It's ok Barb, nobody's perfect. I didn't read what you posted, but it was obviously in response to me. I know it really doesn't matter to you, but a lot of the opinions posted here, really annoy me as well. We all don't have to agree, but it would be nice not to be assaulted by the self appointed "enlightened" crowd here, who like to preach their opinions as though they are the Gospel and think that it's their job to educate us in the proper way of doing things. I've been on quite a few forums over the years, but I've never seen so many self appointed wannabe moderators in any one place. It's a forum and should be open to all opinions, as long as they aren't abusive. And people accusing others of trolling, just because they don't agree, or are humorless, is just wrong. Funny how those who claim to be the most open minded, seldom are.
Anyway, thanks for removing whatever you wrote....though I'll bet it was choice and probably would have made me laugh.
GySgt
bvmjethead
Member
"Feminine Protection" ????????
Whew, for a minute there I thought I was in the wrong forum..............
Whew, for a minute there I thought I was in the wrong forum..............
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