Feminine Protection

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With all due respect, most women just don't have the knowledge to choose what's best for them. That's not their fault, they're just interested in different things.

That's a generalization - and a true one. I work with alot of women, have known alot of women and anyone who doesn't see that ON THE WHOLE, women aren't as interested, involved or knowledgeable about firearms than men are ON THE WHOLE is clueless, period. My wife (reading over shoulder) heartily agrees. Even women who are enthusiasts I've run across are very very seldom interested in the minutae of guns (tactics, mechanics, cleaning). Come to think of it, of the 100 or so I've talked to, only one was really knowledgeable about the workings of her weaponry to the degree that a great many men I know are. Sorry, but that's very telling about the difference between venutians and martians. We are different...so what?

It's not sexism to acknowledge the generalities, only to hold them against one another.
 
Hi! I just wandered onto this site and I am VERY happy to have found it!

For what it's worth, in sailing class the instructors separated married couples and would not allow them to be on the same boat. They also said the emotional investment partners had in each other was too high to make for a good learning environment. Obviously for some couples this wouldn't be a problem, but for most it would.

Anyway - I'm a female who bought a gun for political reasons as much as anything (figured I'd better buy one while I could 'just in case'!), & have much to learn & no 'natural' interest whatsoever.

I would LOVE to hear carry techniques from any female. I have a snubby .38, and it seems no matter where I put it, it either gouges me or shows.

I'm not really interested in purse carry, as I seldom carry a purse and anyway, that seems the most likely thing a thug would grab.

Are there any straight-forward 'beginner's guides to ammunition' out there?

Also - just hows does one develop a 'warrior spirit'? I am not naturally brave.

Any bright ideas out there?
 
Also - just hows does one develop a 'warrior spirit'? I am not naturally brave.

"Warrior spirit" is a rather melodramatic way of talking about cultivating the right mindset for defending yourself. I'm not sure it is a simple, obvious thing you will learn on an internet forum. But you won't have to dance around a campfire playing bongo drums and grunting to figure it out, either. ;)
 
Hi Persnickety, welcome to THR. :)
I would LOVE to hear carry techniques from any female. I have a snubby .38, and it seems no matter where I put it, it either gouges me or shows.
Most of the time, I carry a Glock 26 (that's a 9mm subcompact) in a kydex inside-the-waistband (IWB) holster. I place the holster just to the right of my belly button and in front of my right hip.

The reason this spot works for me, as it does for a lot of other women, is that most women's bodies are built with a natural curve to the hip line that most men simply don't have. So it is hard for a lot of women to hide a gun that is directly on the hip. Sometimes carrying directly on the hip is painful too, especially if the woman is short waisted like I am. But carry in front of the hip is quite do-able, because it makes the gun easier to hide and gets the gun's grip out of your ribs.

One of the secrets to comfortable IWB carry, by the way, is having a really good, sturdy belt. I think someone (Coronado?) makes one that is a sturdy inch and a half in the back, but that narrows in the front to appear as thin as a regular women's belt. Very attractive and practical.

Another method that works for me is the belly band. It is worthwhile to spend money on a good one, and to make sure that the band is of the right size. An undershirt worn underneath makes the band more comfortable and keeps wayward velcro bits from causing itchies.

A dear friend of mine often wears an ankle holster. It works well for her (with a .38 snubby, btw) because she has learned how to sit safely while wearing one. I could not successfully hide an ankle holster because I can't keep both feet on the floor when I'm sitting -- but it works for a lot of people, and is very discreet when done correctly. My friend swears it is comfortable, too, but I think that really depends (again) on the quality of the holster.

More info about women's holsters is available at http://www.womensholsters.com/choosing.html -- I'm not affiliated with them at all, I just think it's a dang good collection of information about holsters for women.
Also - just hows does one develop a 'warrior spirit'? I am not naturally brave.
That's a great question to ask over in the "Strategies & Tactics" forum.

Meanwhile, I would suggest reading some good books, such as Gila Hayes' book Effective Defense and Massad Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme. Gila's book is written from a woman's perspective and addresses some of the emotional and moral issues many women face as they are making the decision to defend themselves with deadly force. Ayoob's book addresses the ethical/moral side of things, but he also talks about some of the legal issues.

There are lots of other good books out there, but those two in particular provide a pretty good coverage of the basic things you will need to think about.

Once you have your brain squared away with good information, then you will want to look around for some good training so that your body 'instinctively' reacts to danger the way you want it to.

The reason you need both good information and good training is because it won't do you any good to know the right response to danger if you are not physically able to do that response. Nor is it enough to be physically able to perform the right response, if your brain doesn't know what the right response is, or if you haven't emotionally processed what it would be like to do that response. So it all has to come together at once if you are going to be prepared to defend yourself.

Hope that helps a bit. I'm sure you'll get other, better responses too.

pax
 
GySgt wrote:
With all due respect, most women just don't have the knowledge to choose what's best for them. That's not their fault, they're just interested in different things.
The problem is, neither do most men. Men, unless they've learned from women, will only explain things from a man's perspective. This question was a great example.

Persnickety wrote:
I would LOVE to hear carry techniques from any female. I have a snubby .38, and it seems no matter where I put it, it either gouges me or shows.
A man, generally speaking, has no problem carrying a pistol right on the point of his hip. It's comfortable and provides a convenient draw. Most women, on the other hand, find this an impossible location.

Consequentially I suspect what happens is when the all-knowing man comes and explains how it's done, the woman tries it and finds it doesn't work. She does not then, as she should, conclude that the man's advice was inadequate. Instead she concludes that she herself is dysfunctional and therefore simply not a gunnie sort of person. What's more, the "know it all guy" comes to the same ignorant conclusion.

Don
 
HI Persnickety,

Welcome aboard. I like you already. Persnickety was one of my late Mother's favorite words.

As one of those sexist-hairly legged men on this thread, I am always glad to see a famale take an interest in our sport.

I feel that most women don't know as much about firearms as men because for centuries men didn't allow or encourage women to learn and participate. Just as most women don't know as much about automobiles and power tools as men in general.

Now having said that and before I get bombarded with hate mail, it seems to me that more and more MEN in our society are losing that edge. I see men all of the time, even of my generation, but especially of the younger generations don't have any mechanical knowledge. And it's a damn shame. But then again look around and you'll find lots of women who don't know how to cook or sew. :(

Which is why I am so glad to see so many women in this forum. I am also glad to see younger people as well. This way us "old guys" can share our knowledge. This way we can make sure it doesn't die.

As I have said for years, "Knowledge is like love, it's useless unless you share it with someone."


Once again, Persnickety, welcome aboard!



(p.s. listen to PAX. She's one of the most intelligent and level headed people in here.)
 
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RE: Warrior Spirit

Sean Smith said:
But you won't have to dance around a campfire playing bongo drums and grunting to figure it out, either.
Whaat? You mean I've been doing it wrong? :p
 
That's a generalization - and a true one. I work with alot of women, have known alot of women and anyone who doesn't see that ON THE WHOLE, women aren't as interested, involved or knowledgeable about firearms than men are ON THE WHOLE is clueless, period.

You need to meet a better class of women.:rolleyes:
 
This is marvelous - thank you! & Mama06 opened another thread on the subject!

Both websites - Cunningham & Handgun Info for Women and Southpaws - look useful. I think the immediate lesson for me is 'wait until that permit comes in the mail, and THEN go clothes shopping with the gun on you.'

It's comfortable enough tucked in front, between the hipbone and the bloop, but not concealed enough to leave the house in most outfits. I have a poochie that sort of works, but it makes me look 5 months pregnant and is not as accessible as I'd like.

I am deeply disappointed that dancing around the campfire won't provide the warrior spirit. It's been ages since I roasted a marshmallow!

Shooting Buddy wrote:
Instead she concludes that she herself is dysfunctional

or, if she is persnickety, she concludes that the man is dysfunctional and goes off to a website for fresh advice.

Actually, this is just going to be a lot of work isn't it? I foresee spending a small fortune on various holsters and blouses and jeans until I come up with some winning combinations.
 
Men, unless they've learned from women, will only explain things from a man's perspective.
Shootin' Buddy, sounds to me like you have a problem with men. I've met women like you before. Your ideas are as misplaced as those of the macho crowd. You will never be happy, until you accept the fact that men and women are not interchangable. There are many things I cannot do as well as you and vice-versa. And to say that men are ignorant unless taught what to do by women, is just the feminazi party line.:p

You need to meet a better class of women.
Jammer, is that your answer to everything? I'll hazard a guess that swingset's wife is not only happier than you are, but the best class of woman there is. You know, one who loves her husband and knows they are a team, neither being more important than the other.:D

GySgt
 
Shootin' Buddy, sounds to me like you have a problem with men.
Not at all. Heck, some of my best friends are male.
I've met women like you before.
You mean women who like guns, who know how to disassemble and clean their own weapons, clear malfunctions, and who know how to make up their own minds about what works for them? How sweet! I bet they think you're just as cute as Leonardo Di Caprio, don't they? ;)
You will never be happy, until you accept the fact that men and women are not interchangable.
So you agree that it's uncomfortable for a woman to carry on the point of the hip? I bet a woman taught you that ... unless you're a cross-dresser with curvy hips.

Don
 
Majic mentioned:
Why some people think women lack basic intelligence is beyond me. They survive life every day on their wits just as a man. They also have longer life spans, so maybe they know something we men don't.

Might have something to do with the Million Mom March thing, and the general perception that women don't like those evil gun thingies that hurt.

I perfer to avoid women like that. If she can't provide cover fire while I reload, then I don't need her. :D
 
BluesBear opined:
I feel that most women don't know as much about firearms as men because for centuries men didn't allow or encourage women to learn and participate.
I absolutely agree with that statement, Blues. It's too bad there are so many men still stuck in the Dark Ages in that regard. One would think that even the most rudimentary understanding of political reality would keep such Neanderthals from saying much, though. Why would any man who lives in a democracy and likes guns try to make sure that at least half the population keeps hating guns and the people who use them? It's beyond me.

Persnickety wrote:
It's comfortable enough tucked in front, between the hipbone and the bloop, but not concealed enough to leave the house in most outfits.
How to choose outfits that work with your holster:

1) Make sure the IWB you get has a "tuckable" feature. This allows you to tuck your blouse in between your pants and your gun, leaving only the holster's outer loop as a giveaway. It is much easier to hide just that loop than it is to hide an entire gun.

2) Put on your holster, a good undershirt, and a comfy sweatshirt. Then get thyself to a store and select the following:
  • a pretty blouse with a matching vest
  • a loose tee shirt
  • a loose button down blouse, worn untucked
  • a beautiful sweater
  • a loose cardigan
  • an attractive cami with a matching overblouse
Take those items into the dressing room with you and try each one of them on in front of the mirror. Obviously, you aren't going to be able to wear bare-midriff styles with your IWB, but you can get away with more than you think you can as long as you pay attention to certain basics. You aren't trying things on in order to buy them, on this trip: you are simply trying out different styles to figure out what will work and what will not. As you walk through the store, grab as many different styles as you can and try them all on. What the heck, it's research! :)

3) When choosing blouses, sweaters, sweatshirts, vests, etc, here are some of the basics to keep in mind:
  • Prints hide telltale lumps better than solids do.
  • Thin fabrics, or fabrics which tend to cling and drape, don't work very well.
  • Loose is a good thing, but you don't want to be swimming in your clothes, especially if all your friends are used to seeing you in microtops or something.
  • You can pair a tight, low cut tank top or undershirt with a blousier vest or overshirt buttoned just one or two buttons at the waist.
  • Sweaters have to be a bit longer than most of this years' fashions, but shrug sets work pretty well.

4) When you find a style that you think might work for you, go to the local thrift store (or the cheapest store you can bring yourself to set foot in) and look around. Buy some things in that style and take them home. This is your experimental wardrobe, to be worn at home. Don't go out in public with your holster again until you have worn it under your 'new' clothes around the house every hour you are awake and home for a full week. Try to keep it concealed. Watch yourself in front of the mirror. Pay attention to how you sit down, how you walk, how you stand up. Try not to tug at your clothing when you stand up. Do the styles you chose work for you? If yes, go back to the mall and buy yourself a good outfit or two in those styles. If no, go back to the thrift store and pick up some clothes in other styles to experiment. Keep doing that until you find what works for you.

Actually, this is just going to be a lot of work isn't it? I foresee spending a small fortune on various holsters and blouses and jeans until I come up with some winning combinations.
Um, yes.

Oh, about the jeans: shop in the men's department. You can get jeans there that are looser in the waist without ending up too baggy in the backside.

pax

I base most of my fashion taste on what doesn't itch. -- Gilda Radner
 
How to choose outfits that work with your holster:

Here's another way, the way I chose:

join a league.

The league I joined is a defensive league, that meets once a week.

The league is about practice. Practicing everything, including how to carry.

We shoot a different course of fire every week, and then we go for mexican food.

Everyone carries, and everyone watches everyone.

The first week, they saw that I was new to carrying, and we spent that meal talking about cover garments, holsters, weather, and weapons. How do you tell who the new guy in a gun league is? He's the guy wearing a nylon windbreaker in ninety degree heat.

I showed up the next week with a new system, and they helped me adjust it. One of the most distressing things that can happen happened to me in the first half an hour I carried with the new system. My 1911 fell out of the holster, and at the league that night, they showed me why, and how to adjust the holster so it wouldn't happen again. Then they showed me how to avoid printing, how to remove my weapon without anyone seeing it, and a hundred other things that would have taken me a long time to even think of as questions, let alone find the answers.

We went on from there to talking about the law in this state, armed encounters, philosophy, and many, many aspects of carrying and self defense that hadn't occurred to me yet.

There's probably a good substitute for a group of mentors, but I can't think of one that would be as cheap, as effective, and as personal.

Now many of them are friends, who I've learned I can count on.

Not to mention that I like mexican food.
 
I bet they think you're just as cute as Leonardo Di Caprio, don't they?
Not hardly Donna, I'm more of a cross between Tom Berenger and Tommy Lee Jones.....:D
Pretty, I ain't.

You mean women who like guns, who know how to disassemble and clean their own weapons, clear malfunctions, and who know how to make up their own minds about what works for them?
No, I mean egocentric, men hating women...who think Leonardo Di Caprio would be a great catch because he's such a sissy boy that they could get their jollies beating his whiney little behind.
Say goodnight Donna......:p
GySgt
 
Thrift shop sounds like a very good idea. I've also been scouring the local 'used for sale' paper for holsters.

ok- stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyway. The beauty of the Internet is that I can't see you when you roll on the floor with laughter.

Ya get a holster. Ya put it on your belt. How in heck can it be IWB then? Do you wear your belt inside your jeans? I attached my holster directly to the jeans, so the clip was on the outside and the gun on the inside. Not bad except when I went to the ladies room and the (unloaded) gun fell out and hit my toe.
 
Ya get a holster. Ya put it on your belt. How in heck can it be IWB then? Do you wear your belt inside your jeans? I attached my holster directly to the jeans, so the clip was on the outside and the gun on the inside. Not bad except when I went to the ladies room and the (unloaded) gun fell out and hit my toe.
An IWB holster is designed to be placed inside your jeans. The part that attaches to your belt is designed to reach over the top of your jeans and either loop completely around your belt so that you have to thread your belt through it, or to hook on your belt from there. Of the two, the ones with full loops tend to be more secure. (Anyone got a link to a good picture?)

If the gun is falling out of your holster when you lower your jeans, there are a couple of solutions. First, a holster which fits your gun a bit better. A holster should fit the gun securely enough that it takes a conscious effort to get it out of the holster. Second, errr, refasten the belt on its loosest notch and keep your knees a bit apart while you're doing your business -- that holds the holster upright and keeps everything off the floor. :eek:

pax
 
Thrift shop sounds like a very good idea. I've also been scouring the local 'used for sale' paper for holsters.

ok- stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyway. The beauty of the Internet is that I can't see you when you roll on the floor with laughter.

Ya get a holster. Ya put it on your belt. How in heck can it be IWB then? Do you wear your belt inside your jeans? I attached my holster directly to the jeans, so the clip was on the outside and the gun on the inside. Not bad except when I went to the ladies room and the (unloaded) gun fell out and hit my toe.
 
In time Persnickety you will be like the rest of us by having a box in the closet full of holsters you have tried over the years looking for that perfect one. Everyone is built different with different comfort levels. There is a model out there for you, but you will have to look for it. The only true test is to wear it for a day or two and see how it feels.
Buy quality leather is you can, fitted for your specific handgun, and most of your retention qualities are built in. Most are not cheap, but there are deals as some are really reasonable in price. Here's a link for some examples: Http://www.gunnersalley.com
 
In time Persnickety you will be like the rest of us by having a box in the closet full of holsters you have tried over the years looking for that perfect one.

I'm going to have to agree with Majic on that one. No matter what you try, you'll always find that there can be a little improvement here and there. In the long run you'll end up spending more money on custom holsters than you will on firearms.

On the bright side, think of all the shopping you'll have to do looking for new outfits :)

Don
 
:D

Yeah, but they're a lot more fun to play with than Barbie ever was.

pax
 
Persnickety

Here's a few examples of IWB holsters.

RG_SILO.jpg

SCOUT.jpg

UDC.jpg

WAISTBND.jpg


Gun shows are a great place to find used holsters and no one looks at you funny for trying them.
 
How do you like the Glock 26, Pax? I've been considering one but don't know anyone who carries one.
 
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