Fiance wants gun but slide problems...

[Axel Larson]

My Future wife wants a handgun at some point for self defense but she has problems pulling back the slides on auto loaders and I am not sure about revolvers because she may have problems pulling the double action trigger this is because of her juvenile arthritis. Now my question is are there certain handguns out there that have easy slides or double action revolvers that have easy triggers?

 

[liist]

I've seen some pretty nice trigger jobs done to S&W revolvers. It won't be cheap, but that might be an option you're looking for.

 

[Nushif]

While some are easier than other ... I would highly recommend some training. not coming from you, but someone else. Preferably also a woman.
This isn't a hardware problem. I have juvenile arthritis myself, even though its very mild, but if she can function in every day life, she can use a firearm. Work on the software. 8)

 

[gpr]

maybe something like a taurus tip up barrel or beretta sa/da might work...25 cal might be a little shy for defence....some thing is better than nothing....gary

 

[Jim Watson]

There are guns to pick and techniques to use that can make it less difficult for her.
A good resource, written by a woman for women is the Cornered Cat:
http://www.corneredcat.com/

The thing about an auto for self defense is that she can "adminstratively" load it.
Under no stress she can load the magazine, load it into the gun, get a good grip and stance (see Cornered Cat for instruction), grit her teeth, and get a round chambered. The gun is then ready to go with no further manipulation (unless it has a manual safety like a 1911, unlike a Glock.)

A lady of my acquaintance really has to work hard to rack the slide on her target auto but she only does it once per range trip. After she gets it going the first time it is either being shot or is empty with the slide locked back, requiring only that a loaded magazine be inserted and the slide stop lever depressed to resume fire.

We are not trying to make SEALettes out of these women, if they can't handle a self defense problem in a magazine full, it is probably not fixable with a pistol at all.

Recreational shooting can also be managed. I am at present working with a couple, bringing them into IDPA. He has no trouble with operating the gun, she is having to develop some technique. But she is an accurate shot, probably better than him. Now all I have to do is get her to where operating and shooting the gun is reflexive so she can concentrate on the course of fire and develop some speed.

 

[gearhead]

It's not inexpensive but the FN Five-seveN is something to look at for a person who has issues with grip strength and presumably recoil as well. It's easy to rack and is a very light-recoiling pistol. It's not a traditional self-defense caliber but factory ammo is probably approximately as effective as .38 Spl/9mm and the aftermarket rounds are even more effective.

There are other handguns out there that aren't too difficult to rack, also. Typically, in traditional self defense calibers the heavier the slide the easier the slide is to rack so usually the larger handguns are more user friendly.

 

[KodiakBeer]

You can buy replacement recoil springs of various weights from Wolff for many pistols. You might want to consider your purchase in light of that. A lighter recoil spring increases frame battery, but you can always swap out the spring with a normal weight for range shooting, then replace it with a lighter weight spring for carry when she may have to do it herself.

 

[TX1911fan]

Something with a tip up barrel is a good idea, even though it is a small caliber. .32 cal may make a small hole but it's still bigger than no hole at all.

 

[TonyT]

My wife had the same problem and I purchsed her a Taurus PT-11 Milenium. According to an American Riflemann review this pistol was the easiest to rack the slide. Myh wife was able to do it but never relly got to shooting the gun and I finally sold it. The only minus I had with the gun was that the raised portion on the inside of the trigger guard rubbed my finger raw when firing more than the few shots you would require in a defensive situation.

 

[rcmodel]

SLide racking has a lot to do with the way you do it.

Have her hold the slide with all 4 fingers and thumb of left hand for maximum grip strength.
Then have her stiff-arm the gun at arms length with her left arm straight and rotated to it's natural position.

She can now use her right hand to "punch" or "push" the grip forward and cycle the slide.

Much much easier then getting her arms, wrests & fingers all contorted at odd angles trying to rack it by pulling on the slide with both elboows bent!

rc

 

[Sheepdog1968]

SLide racking has a lot to do with the way you do it.

Have her hold the slide with all 4 fingers and thumb of left hand for maximum grip strength.
Then have her stiff-arm the gun at arms length with her left arm straight and rotated to it's natural position.

She can now use her right hand to "punch" or "push" the grip forward and cycle the slide.

Much much easier then getting her arms, wrests & fingers all contorted at odd angles trying to rack it by pulling on the slide with both elboows bent!

rc

+1

Above way uses gross motor skills and stronger muscles than the "sling shot" method often seen in hollywood movies.

Before I'd buy anything, I'd get some training and use a rental gun.

If you are talking about a weapon for use inside the home, there are other rifle and shotgun options that may work better as well.

 

[hardluk1]

Axel larson Do you have a range with any female instrutors? If so have your fiance get with them to try to work out the how to's of racking the slide with different pistols.
Revolvers could be the ticket too. The slides on all my pistol can be racked by my youngest girl, all 100lbs of her useing her palm and all 5 finger to grab the slide and rack them. From a witness 40 cal and glock 17 down to my pm9. Recoil from some of them is another thing.

I have an old taurus 85ss that has had a soft hammer spring in it from wolf for many , many years and has allways been dependable. The trigger pull with the lightend hammer spring and return spring is 2 lb SA and 4.4 lb DA. You can't get much lighter than that. Doing that to a 5 shot revolver with a good soft rubber full grip she can hold on to and that might make a good choice for her. If a revolver is a choice look at the 327fed mag as it can shoot a 32h&r mag and the 32 sw loads.

 

[BCRider]

I'll echo that it's all about how she grips the slide. But when dealing with weak ladies I suggest a slightly different way.

The gun is picked up and the slide pushed home with a bump of the support hand. With the gun still held with the grip mostly sideways reach across the top of the slide with the support hand which just engaged the magazine. Grip the slide between the heel and palm of the hand on the "top" side and all four fingers on the "lower" side and push forward with the strong hand while pulling back with the support hand. The thumb of the weak hand racking the slide is actually pointed back at the shooter during this.

This method totally avoids using the thumb to achieve a grabbing action. And since it seems to be that the thumb is the weakest part of the grip it means that even the slightest and weakest woman can rack the slide.


Another way that I've seen some weaker women use without being told is to flip the gun fully over to the other side once the magazine is bumped home. Their support hand then grabs the slide with the heel on the "upper" side and all four fingers on the "lower" side but this time their thumb is pointed forward. Then with their arms out straight they can swing their shoulders while keeping the gun pointed downrange. This action uses their shoulders to push the strong hand forward and pull the support hand on the slide back. Again this is very effective because of the force they can generate with their shoulders vs their arms. But in both cases they are using all four fingers to pinch the slid to the heel of their hand which produces as strong a grip as you'll find.

I've been helping out as an RO for some of the Friday "Ladies" nights at the local Rent-A-Gun range. I've seen petit girls that could not even budge the slide when using their thumb for part of the grip easily rack the slide when they pinch it firmly between all four fingers and the heel of their hand in either of these manners.

So they CAN do it. It just takes some practice.

 

[Ole Coot]

I was shooting with a parole officer and friend. She is about 5'2" tall and 110lbs. She has no problem racking a Glock 23 but can't fire a couple of J frames I had with smooth triggers. I let her try my Beretta 45 and she had no problem. Need a woman about her size to show her how.

 

[jad0110]

One other option. A pre 1947/48 S&W K Frame .38 with the long action. These usually have ultra smooth, slick DA triggers that are very easy to manage for most people. They can be found for pretty cheap too, I acquired the below 5" M&P .38 for $230 last year.

You can most easily spot the long action S&Ws by the humpback hammer. If you can find a transitional model made between '45 and '48, like the gun below, it might have both the long action design AND a positive hammer block safety.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

An older friend of mine (he's 70) has fairly bad arthritis in his hands. He has the same problem racking the slide because of it. A few months ago he found a gun that is easy to rack and it's very well made. It will cost you but I have a feeling that won't matter, it's the SIG P238 Rosewood. This .380 pistol looks exactly like a 1911 shrunk down to a small package. You have to see this gun and hold it to really appreciate how well it's made. I especially like the Rosewood grips and the stock night sights. If that particular pistol look isn't to here liking there are 14 different models of the P238. It weighs only 15.2oz but it's controllable because of it's grip angle, just like a 1911. (6+1 rounds)

Personally I'm a revolver fan and carry one daily. Like said above, a good trigger and action job will help a lot with the heavy trigger usually found on a small revolver.

 

[Bovice]

Ok... Honestly, how difficult is racking a slide? Arthritis or not, it doesn't take that much. Even for large bore handguns with presumably stiffer springs.

 

[Sport45]

Tell her that it's perfectly okay in a defense situation to shove the top of the slide against the wall, door jamb, etc., and push the frame of the gun down with both hands to charge it.

(The same way you'd have to if you had one hand incapacitated.)

That said, I suggest a revolver and some practice time.

 

[mgmorden]

To reiterate what others have said, it's all in how you hold the gun that determines a slide being hard to rack.

If you pinch the back of it with 2-3 fingers and try to pull straight back of course it's going to be difficult. Not impossible (people certainly do it that way), but just more difficult.

Have her wrap whole hand across the top of the slide - the thumb and base of the hand on the side nearest to you and the other 4 fingers on the opposite side. Clamp down, lock the wrist, and use your whole arm to pull it back. There's literally nothing to it.

Also - if she doesn't shoot a lot, try going to Wolf Gunsprings and getting a reduced power recoil spring for whatever model you're looking at. The recoil will become more pronounced, and the frame will wear a bit quicker, but the slide will indeed rack easier.

Another tip - though I generally don't recommend doing this, if it's a DA/SA gun and she's STILL having trouble, have her try cocking the hammer first, THEN racking the slide. When the hammer is decocked on such a gun racking the slide cocks it, that's an additional bit of resistance in addition to the recoil spring. Cocking the hammer THEN racking the slide splits the force needed between two operations instead of one.

 

[Patriotme]

There are some very good comments above. I'd like to add one thing though. How good the slide serrations are can make a huge difference.
My wife shoots all of my handguns but I had one pistol that was almost impossible for her to rack the slide. It was a Browning Hi Power (.40 cal) and while the recoil spring was a bit heavy the main problem for her was the extremely poor serrations on the slide.
I like the idea of the Beretta with the tip up barrel for your wife. An earlier poster had a very good idea recommending this gun.
I don't know how good this device would be but I saw something this year (online) that was placed on the slide and projected off towards the slide. It was kind of like a hook or tab that sat out at a 90 degree angle and could be used to rack the slide against a wall, holster, belt, etc. It looked like something that would be useless for any kind of carry gun and seemed kind of gimmicky but it could possibly work on a home defense gun for your wife. I'll look around a bit and see if I can find it again. I still like the Beretta and tip up barrel idea a lot better though.

 

[mgmorden]

I like the idea of the Beretta with the tip up barrel for your wife. An earlier poster had a very good idea recommending this gun.

Yep - another item of note - though they're a bit rare, Beretta did make SOME versions of the Cheetah in .380 with a tip-up barrel. You needn't necessarily go all the way down to .32ACp to get that feature.

 

[oneounceload]

There are guns to pick and techniques to use that can make it less difficult for her.
A good resource, written by a woman for women is the Cornered Cat:
http://www.corneredcat.com/

Another vote for Pax's site. Husbands should ALSO read this site before they go "buying a gun for the wife"

 

[Rsuchy86]

I have a walther pk380 and find that it is very easy to operate the slide and recoil is very manageable. Could be an option to consider along with the mentioned training.

 

[doc.lonestar]

I would consider a dao snubbie for simplicity of operation since there are issues with pulling the slide back.

At no time would I suggest having her use something that MAY cause her issues when needed most. We all know someone that will put off doing things until needed if they are uncomfortable. So if racking the slide for her MAY cause issues she is less apt to carry as often. If she has the ability to carry without any issues she may carry more...

You have to consider the trigger pull on most dao snubbies but I personally own a Ruger LCR in 38 and find the trigger pull smoother than other options. Doing some testing with some different loads may also help to find one that is best for her needs.

 

[JustinJ]

Its been my experience that many women who "can't" rack a slide are having a trouble because they are too tentative. Just having them practice with an empty gun can help alot once its explained that they won't hurt the gun or themselves.

"Now my question is are there certain handguns out there that have easy slides or double action revolvers that have easy triggers?"
I'd avoid a feather light trigger.