Firearms research for a novel

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Hello,

I am writing a series of books about a hypothetical invasion of the UK by the People's Republic of China. This is an action type book rather than a commentary from Leaders and Generals. Thusly, there shall be a great number of firearms and as it is set roughly ten years ahead in a believable alternate future it needs weapons to have advanced and standard issue weapons to have changed. Have I put this in the correct section? Anyway a few questions...

• FN SCAR-L as US service rifle?

• 5.56x45 Mk262 NATO Standard?

• US using the HK45T, and the .45 ACP +P Armour Piercing's effectiveness against light body armour?

• Much lighter, much improved HK-Enfield L85A3 (HK bought by the Brits again, yay! )

More to come...

Thanks to all that answer, ideas for service weapons and weapons advancement very welcome indeed...

 

[Owen]

SCAR-L maybe, but not fully fielded in 10 years.

MK262, no, too expensive

HK45T. not impossible, but not likely

why not an L2020 firing caseless?

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Thanks for the response,


Surely with the design licenced and industry turned to it the SCAR-L could be the one and only service rifle. Maybe if production was started in '08...

L2020? I love case-less and the G11 is one of my favourite guns so the LSAT program was like a birthday present but I'm trying to keep it very grounded. Still, the crushing and infinite technological superiority of Her Majesty's Armed Forces will be apparent soon enough!

I know the Mk262 is a semi-match round but maybe something similar. Need slightly more punch than GI 5.56 and I did initially consider 6.5 Grendel, and that will make an appearance but not as national issue...

 

[Snowbandit]

An excellent opportunity to mention the pitiful few weapons and sad state of armament still available to the British citizens. Certainly someone has an old Webley with a handful of shells in a liquor bottle bag stuffed away in Grandma's attic that could prove useful somehow.

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Sad it is indeed, though various hunting bolt action 7.62x51 and up are available and I think Britain has proved throughout the ages just how deadly they can be, 12 bore is also renowned for sorting out awkward social situations. There is a glimmer of hope with Cameron calling for Castle Law insofar as you do not have to show reasonable restraint inside your home. Whilst eminently possible with a large professional standing army, military tendencies, vast amounts of CCTV and other surveilence equipment, no constitution and an absolute ruler with the power to dissolve Parliament Britain will just never never be a dystopian facist state. It just doesn't work. Still back on subject , and don't worry, the Chinese end up reaping what they sow and start rueing the day they invented gunpowder!

 

[Shadow 7D]

China wouldn't, its too far, an invasion requires the staging of troops, where would the stage? in Ireland?

Also you would have to make NATO null, US, England and Germany were the major players in it, that if one gets invaded the ALL attack, also, that would mean in the worse case that the UK would use NUKES, and um...

what about all those OTHER countries that the queen owns, like NZ, Ausie, SA, THEY would definitely attack China mainland, AND shipping.

So, in your senario, China is attacking the Commonwelth AND NATO... even China ain't big enough for that...

A much more likely scenario is that China is providing Peace Keepers (under UN mandate) after a savage economic war has shattered the UE, with the UK being the major hold out and hence the UN PK's (use this quote- 'never thought the brits and the IRA would fight together') and Chinese 'ensureance' troops, there to guarantee Chinese investments and collateral that the UK government gave to the PRC trying to secure loans to bail themselves out.

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

The Grandma's attic is a good idea though, thank you...

 

[Shadow 7D]

In the event of a major calamity, I doubt that the citizenry would fail to strip the armories bare in front of the advancing troops, happened in Iraq

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Russia votes in a Communist Ultra-Nationalist Party and gives China Murmansk in return for economic help. China manages to defeat the various early warning systems via hacking. The Commonwealth, Europe and USA initally stay out of it, a bit shocked but thankful no one has exercised the nuclear option...yet. British Nuclear submarines do end up being used but only sparingly and not against mainland China to avoid all-out nuclear war. Thanks for all the suggestions, and yes the Paddies do help out!

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

L1A1's, Stirlings, L85A3's, Lee-Enfields and Webley MkVI's all end up being handed out and used against the PLA and indeed fighting is so fierce that shocking stories of grandmothers and their Webleys felling PLA troops start filtering back out of the war zone...

 

[Shadow 7D]

If the IRA, you will have bomb attacks, crowded street assignations where 'nobody saw anything', mortar attacks, commanders being driven down in the road, families of 'collaborators' disappearing, and of course 'gentlemen from the states', not to mention drive-bys and snipers.

Also, read about the invasion of Tibet, the PLA is VERY enthusiastic about their 'pacification'

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

No, the Irish (both of them) fight for Britain against China. Partly because compared to the difference between China the arguments between the Seperatist Irish and the Loyslists/British are trivial and mostly because the Irish realise they are next!

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

All this is in response to the UK persuading the US and EU to completely embargo China. This then turns China into a 3rd World country so as the Communist regime is slipping they decide to take a shot at revenge and popularity within China...

 

[Shadow 7D]

Right, like I was saying, grandma may open up on the chinese sipping tea at the corner cafe, the IRA will lob mortars on it and say kiss off about the owner, cause he was serving them... I was implying that with the IRA comes their tactics

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Ah yes, sorry my mistake...I can imagine that the PLA expecting to find Britain a roll over what with very few armed citizens and at times liberal politics being rather shocked by the the capacity for ingenious brutality that the native islanders have.

 

[Bobson]

So, in your senario, China is attacking the Commonwelth AND NATO... even China ain't big enough for that...

China's got over 60% of the world's population in it's borders. They're big enough. Problem is, they don't have enough money to properly equip their military. Either that or they just don't care to.

The book is fiction. If the author's talented, it should be a good read.

 

[Shadow 7D]

my point is, with nuclear obliteration staring them down the nose (yeah, I know the party has enough bunkers to live it out, but even gold toilets get cold once the bling wears off)

China, is the MOST wealthy nation on earth, they don't have the strongest military, and lately their leadership is more likely to 'adjust' their currency and just price your citizens out of most consumer goods (made in china) than spend the money a war cost.

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

I'm trying to balance it, China is quite a bit weaker and the west specifically the UK is now much stronger than at present e.g the RAF uses the F-22 as a fighter and has relegated the Typhhon to CAS and low priority air superiority missions and the Royal Navy now has 4 permanently patrolling Nuclear Subs all fully loaded, with two as a reserve. China takes the UK and her allies by surprise however and the US, Commonwealth and EU are very hesitant at first and the Brits are, quite understandably, unwilling to spark off a Global Thermonuclear War.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Right, so the most plausible happening is economic collapse and a US style 'We're here to help you' AND protect all the crap we own from the mobs of your unruly citizen, come on, Labor wouldn't welcome a communist take over? Think Vichy France or the Quisling Regime. Basically a puppet government that is set up and maintained by their 'benefactor', china, mainly to keep the US and the EU in line. The tech part would be that there was major disorder and a 'Official' request for help, that most the countries disregard, but China jumps on with prepositioned troops (Navy show off 'World Tour') and Super Carriers with Troops in cargo containers instead of PlayStations and teddy bears.

Once again, look at the Logistics of an invasion, you see that ONLY little ones are ever a surprise, there is SUCH a build up, everybody KNOWS one is going to happen. IN my scenario, a small 'Peace Keeping' force gets in the door and the 'Government' asks for more as "it's" troops rebel.

 

[Shadow 7D]

That also forestalls the nuclear option as there is no 'invasion' and so, you have the Commonwealth and NATO stuck in committees bickering about what to do... (BTW does the Queen escape or is she held hostage? and you KNOW one of the princes has to die heroically leading a hasty attack against the initial 'peace keepers'

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Hmm... That's taking it away from where I want it to go to be honest, but you do have pretty good ideas. The Queen I should imagine either escaping to Canada or going down fighting and at least two princes shall appear with one dying and the other only maling a brief appearence. Anyway the idea was to get technical help and ideas so whilst I must thank you for your contribution I want to get back on track.

• What should be the American service rifle?
It must:

• Be chambered in 5.56x45
• Not be an M4
• Have a 14-16" Barrel
• Be relatively lightweight
• Of Conventional Design, No Bullpups

I'm thinking SCAR-L

• Should America adopt the .45 ACP or .357 SIG or keep the 9x19

• Should HK-Enfield manufacture an improved MP5?

• Should Britain adopt the Mk.43 Mod 1?

And lastly,

• What should be the British Service Pistol?

 

[Shadow 7D]

The brits have always been very peckish about using 'their' weapon, as in a native design, so is there a native Brit pistol, and if so, would it be something in the way the the Belgium 5.7 proprietary round or good ol nato? I would make it a pistol / SMG combo much like the 5-7 and FN P90

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Seeing as the UK Government bought HK and revived Enfield an then merged the two creating HK-Enfield I'll use the MP7A2 with the HK9C as a compact handgun.

Good Night.

 

[Shadow 7D]

The americans will still have the M4
But with some of the Future warrior stuff on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior
I would include the 25mm laser ranged grenades and something like the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM307_Advanced_Crew_Served_Weapon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM25_CDTE

 

[UKKnowledgeSeeker]

Thanks for the links! I am aware of Future Force Warrior, Future Infantry System Technology and FÉLIN but I didn't know they had Wiki pages. Thank you very much, some great ideas here.