First time to pull my side arm today

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Um, I definitely would have called the cops.

First one to the 911 operator is usually the victim.

Otherwise it could go like this: You don't call the cops, and shortly thereafter they get a call from someone going something like this "We were trying to change our tire on the side of the road and tried to flag this guy down for help, and then he pointed a gun at me! Here's his license plate number!" followed by an officer showing up at your door with a warrant.
 
Did you run over his foot or something? I read a lot of post in here where people just start screaming and coming at you with weapons. While the OP side of the story is they did nothing....
 
no brandishing just aim?, how do you not brandish a firearm and aim it at the same time?, whats your thought on the meaning of brandishing?, if you took your firearm out and showed it, you are brandishing, the only difference is weather it was justified or not justified, And any time you feel you must draw, allways call 911, if some one saw the incident and they called 911, " I JUST SAW A GUY PULL A GUN ON SOME ONE", it would be in your best interest to have your side of story, if LEO's ge your info after they contact you, just makes it seem supicous to them, just my thought
 
dusty14u, the problem with your suggestion is that calling the cops would actually make it MORE possible that revenge would happen. "This guy called the cops on me, I'll teach HIM a lesson now" is the mentality of your common thugs. In a perfect world, one should call the police, but El Paso is FAR from a perfect world. It would be very unlikely that they would even find the guy that was doing the assaulting. More than likely he is an illegal and a little gang banger wannabe that was trying to be all "bad ass" in front of his little hoodlum friends.
 
Dbl0Kevin said:
You know it truly amazes me that on a forum dedicated to gun owners rights whenever a thread like this pops up there is always a good number of people saying that the person who acted in self defense did something wrong or should not have employed a firearm.

As a LEO I can assure you that if someone is coming at me with a tire iron in what is clearly a threatening manner either on or off duty they are going to get drawn down on, and they are not going to get a warning first. You can talk all you want after you have the threat covered or the situation is diffused.

As far as calling the police and being the "complainant" that doesn't hold the magic status that some here seem to think. Just because someone calls 911 does not mean I take their word automatically over the other party. There have been numerous times when I have left a call with someone in the back seat of my patrol car whining "but I'm the one that called you!!" The fact of the matter is that a lot of people who call the police do so out of selfish motivation to use law enforcement as an agent against someone they don't like.

Now that being said I'm not saying not to call, that decision is yours. I will tell you this in the majority of situations like this the person who calls doesn't get a license plate, or gives the wrong one and doesn't stick around. Most of these types of calls aren't even assigned to a unit and are simply "BOLO'd" over the radio in case anyone is in the area and sees it.

If either of you did call and when I got there all parties were still present I would do a complete investigation and speak with all parties involved. The first thing that would speak volumes to me would be that both parties, which inevitably claim to be the victim, stayed in proximity to each other after the potential dangerous incident. In your situation each of you would have several witnesses that would likely be backing up both of your stories. At that point it becomes a case of you both go to jail or nobody goes to jail if I can't find any evidence other than witness statements. You can imagine what 99% of the people in that situation choose.

As for the other party calling and you going to jail I have only encountered that situation ONE time in my career. I was very unhappy with the whole thing as the "victim" is/was a total dirtbag that I have dealt with numerous times and is a known criminal and the "suspect" was his elderly neighbor that had gotten fed up with said dirtbag making all kinds of noise and always fighting with his wife. The dirtbag said the neighbor pulled a gun on him from across the fence after telling him to shut up and stop making noise. The dirtbag's wife confirmed his story, and he was able to describe the neighbor's gun that he still had on his person when I arrived there. Try as I could I wasn't able to talk the dirtbag out of pressing charges against the old man and even the Judge I called was dismayed that he had to issue a warrant.
The happy ending to the story was that the dirtbag moved off to somewhere unknown and when it came time for the charges to be heard myself and the other Deputy on the scene had the prosecutor drop the charges.

Bottom line is this, if you are threatened and you need to draw your gun that is what it's there for. Use your head and be smart and you will make it out alright.
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very well put, agree on the pull if you feel the threatened, and the only thing i think best to do, is to call 911, and let them tell you what to do at that time, just incase a person that was not involved ( some one looking out a window) not knowing the hole story and say there's a man pointing a gun at someone, think it would be better in the end
 
Well I waded through two pages of this to see approval,which I am in that camp, to the other side of the coin of brandishing.
What gets me in these types of threads is guys who use the state laws from which they hail from to approve or disapprove of what another does in their state.
For all we know those shouting brandishing are from New Jersey or some other state that is so firearms hateful it hurts.
And in fact the guy with the tire iron was probably just a few steps away from Texas Castle Doctrine kicking in which also includes your vehicle.
Chad most definitely gets me seal of approval but with the others in the vehicle to act as responsible witnesses I would have truely got the police involved.
More so because you were only four blocks from home and too me at least that's just too damn close for comfort.
 
Assuming to BG called the cops--probably unlikely as he was carrying and threatening you with a weapon.
You had three law abiding witnesses with you.
The BG actions were suspect in the first place or he would not have a tire iron in his hands.
 
I've lived and worked in NM for most of my life. Been to El Paso many times, used to go over to Juarez and Nuevo Laredo a lot but now the border being what it isn't, (a border)I would be hard pressed to go within 25 miles without backup. El Paso always had some bad areas, but is just steadily getting worse. I have relatives that live close and they are getting more worried all the time. BTW the cc did the job.
 
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He was lucky. The bad guy backed down. It doesn't always go down that way. In my situation, the guy was crazy or on drugs. He came at me empty handed, pounding his chest, screaming "shoot me, shoot me!". What do you do with that? There is really no way to win. If you shoot someone you better be able to prove: A). He had a deadly weapon, B). He demonstrated an intent to use it on you, and C). He was close enough to be able to deliver on that threat.

I don't know if Chad could answer yes to all three questions because I wasn't there. All I know is people are unpredictable. Just because you display a superior weapon does NOT mean the attacker is going to back down. Chad got lucky the guy responded with some common sense when confronted. Some people are just nuts and will dare you to shoot. What then?

That's why I say keep it hidden until it's time to strike.
 
1) One cannot be certain the car the BG was standing near was his, or is identifiable as his. So you give the tags to the cops, and it leads to some sweet old grandmother who sold the car to someone. What now?
2) Brandishing based on TX law (if it is specifically defined, I couldn't find mention of it with a short Google search) may not (probably not!) be defined the same way as another state.
 
Actually, with that area and methodology, odds are that this dude has some serious experience in Juarez or something. Don't take them lightly, our gangs are pretty damned fierce.
 
all I can say is that if what the op did was not within the limits of the law, then the law needs changed! He did exactly what was needed for his given situation and no more! that is our job when we carry. I am a law abiding citizen, and I have respect for the law, however even the law won't stand between me and my safety, I'd rather be alive to defend my actions and take my chances than dead because a thug had less concern for his life than I did for mine
 
i will agree that calling the police after the fact will only draw you a heap of unwanted garbage. at best, you will get a severe tounge lashing, worst case, you could end up with a brandishing charge. personally, i believe i would have done the same thing. the real question is will that guy now respect you as someone who will not be a victim, or will he escalate it next time with a 45?! honestly, i think i would find a better place to live!
 
montveil said:
The BG actions were suspect in the first place or he would not have a tire iron in his hands.
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I would have to beg to differ. The odds are pretty good that the OP was actually being threatened, but standing with a tire iron by your stopped car on a road is not in and of itself suspicious. Neither, even, is raising it and waving it around, as he could have simply been gesturing with it. Likely? No, not really, especially given how the cars were stopped, but that's how it could get reported from the suspect's end...
 
rhodco said:
Some people are just nuts and will dare you to shoot. What then?
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If the person in question has demonstrated the means to do you grave bodily harm or kill you, has demonstrated a desire to do so, and refuses to stop advancing when presented with a firearm, then you simply shoot that person.

The second you drew, you changed the dialog. You're no longer asking the person to politely leave you alone. You're essentially saying, "Leave me alone or I will shoot you." If you don't want to have that discussion then don't draw.

There are plenty of bad guys out there who will judge someone based on their appearance and decide that they won't shoot, and try to disarm or attack them. If you show hesitation when they don't comply, then you may be in a world of worse trouble very shortly. There is also always the possibility that the person refusing to comply is using delaying tactics to allow an accomplice to flank you.

So, if you point a gun at someone and they continue to advance, or refuse to retreat, you'd better be prepared to use the gun.

Note: This isn't legal advice. Doing the above may lead to trouble in some areas, especially if you're not in your home at the time. Doing less may be dangerous, so it's probably best to develop some judgment on when to draw or not to draw. Because once you've drawn, you've changed the game and limited your options.
 
"Brandashing" is the last thing I would be worried about from what you wrote, I would be worried about this guy finding out where I live since it happened close to home, what happens if he remembers the car and sees it parked in the drive way!!:what:
 
"Brandashing" is the last thing I would be worried about from what you wrote, I would be worried about this guy finding out where I live since it happened close to home, what happens if he remembers the car and sees it parked in the drive way!!
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Agreed. I think you did fine. People can armchair quarterback when they have plenty of time to think and weigh the pros and cons of their choices. When it is for real you are lucky to have seconds. You didn't freeze up, you acted and nobody was hurt. Good job.

I would exercise a higher level of situational awareness at least for the next couple of weeks or so since it happened so close to your home. As was said above they may recognize your car and decide to retaliate.
 
Texas may be skewed, but that does not fit most common definitions of brandishing. At that close a distance from a guy with a tire iron in his hand, this would more appropriately be called "preparing to defend himself".
 
Glad you got out of it alright.

Brandishing? Please. Should I keep a tire iron weakside just in case?

If you are threatened (I would have been, were I you) try to evade. Use the weapon to evade and escape if necessary. Just because you pull it does not mean you have to fire it. If you pull it, plan on firing if necessary, as in the BG keeps advancing or does not break off. I dunno about you, but were I to have a gun on me I would REALLY think about what im doing next. If the advance continues, something is definitely WRONG and they are intending to do you harm. BUT in this case he broke off the attack and stood down. You had no way of knowing his intentions or how he would act. Once you introduced the pistol, he changed his plans (which seemed nefarious to any reasonable person). I do not see an issue.

To perfectly cover yourself, a call to the police would have been good to just report it and make sure everything stayed straight and maybe help out the next person mr tire iron runs into.
 
If someone was running at me yellling and threatening me, even with empty hands I guarantee you I will have my carry gun in my hand and will definitely fire it until it's empty once the guy gets close enough to scare me. If an unarmed person acts like that when you have a gun in your hand it's proof enough to me that they are nuts, on drugs or intending me bodily harm. I'm damn near 70 years old and am not about to get in a fist fight with a young thug. I'll worry about the aftermath with the law alive rather than take a chance the attacker comes to his senses before he beats me to death.
 
Owning a fire arm is a privlidge not a right. (thought it should be, but i can understand why its not). Just cuase he came out with a tire iron speaking a laguage you didnt understand doesnt make him a threat to you. maybe he was defending himself from a previous altercation and you happened to show up with car full of people that he thought was a returning foe. you were right to pull your weapon, that tire iron wielding man will think twice about bulleying anybody and everybody. Whos knows, maybe he's some loser who terrorized the neighborhood before and you put a stop his tuffguy attitude and innocent people in the shadows are appluading you. id bet on it. be weary living that close of reprocussions, bulleys usual take longer to let things go.
 
Actually owning a firearm IS a right. Guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the Constitution of the United States and upheld more than once by the Supreme Court.
 
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