CapnMac
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Actually much more like 7.62 French long as it's a taper case, and not a shouldered one.
The .30luger (and .30mauser) at least have some long-range credibility 30sc drops off pretty quickly over distance.
Flop handgun rounds
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The .30luger (and .30mauser) at least have some long-range credibility 30sc drops off pretty quickly over distance.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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Yes, the 41AE with its rebated rim so you could fire a larger cartridge using the slide for a smaller one. That sure caught on.
My experience with the 41 Magnum service loads in my 4" M-57-like firing 38s out my 4" M-28.
I confess I have never owned a 40 S&W and have fired about 15 rounds of it, curious as to why it has gone out of fashion so quickly.
The 38 Super is another round that started out strong then faded, still holds on. AFAIK no one has made a carbine chambered in it.
The 9MMP is a flop in the eyes of Jeff Cooper followers who dismiss it as a minor caliber.
My experience with the 41 Magnum service loads in my 4" M-57-like firing 38s out my 4" M-28.
I confess I have never owned a 40 S&W and have fired about 15 rounds of it, curious as to why it has gone out of fashion so quickly.
The 38 Super is another round that started out strong then faded, still holds on. AFAIK no one has made a carbine chambered in it.
The 9MMP is a flop in the eyes of Jeff Cooper followers who dismiss it as a minor caliber.
CapnMac
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"Flop" is going to vary a bit on how you define it.
Probably all manner of "flop" cartridges out there that never made it to commercial loading.
In the sense suggested in OP, pretty much all the "ae" rounds have been less successful.
There's 50gi, which has gone nowhere.
There's a pile of oddball 45 caliber rounds that really never went anywhere, either.
There's a good argument that the 4.8x24 is doomed.
Probably all manner of "flop" cartridges out there that never made it to commercial loading.
In the sense suggested in OP, pretty much all the "ae" rounds have been less successful.
There's 50gi, which has gone nowhere.
There's a pile of oddball 45 caliber rounds that really never went anywhere, either.
There's a good argument that the 4.8x24 is doomed.
Old_Grouch
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I believe the Thompson SMG was once chambered for it. Does that count as a carbine?
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Riomouse911
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Win had a rifle (Model 63?) that fired it. It just was one of those rounds that generated some sparks but never caught fire.
The two .22 TCM rounds are in a similar boat; neat idea but limited in mass appeal.
Edit: Marlin 57 Levermatic was the rifle I was thinking of.
Stay safe.
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BLACKHAWKNJ
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Recall seeing a picture of a Thompson Center Contender barrel in 38 Super. The Winchester Model 63 was the 22 LR replacement for their Model 1903.
The Marlin 62 Levermatic was chambered in .256 Winchester Magnum.
There was a 401 Herters Powermag. And the S&W 35 Auto.
The Marlin 62 Levermatic was chambered in .256 Winchester Magnum.
There was a 401 Herters Powermag. And the S&W 35 Auto.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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I have seen a picture of a Thompson Center Contender barrel in 38 Super. The Marlin Model 62 Levermatic was chambered in 256 Win Mag. The Winchester Model 63 was their 22Lr replacement for the Model 1903.
There was the Herter 401 Power Mag. The S&W 35 Auto.
There was the Herter 401 Power Mag. The S&W 35 Auto.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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I have seen a picture of a T/C Contender barrel in 38 Super. The Marlin Model 62 Levermatic was chambered in 256 Win Mag. The Winchester model 63 was the 22LR replacement for the Model 1903.
There was the Herters 401 Powermag. The 35 S&W Auto.
There was the Herters 401 Powermag. The 35 S&W Auto.
PWC
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I guess Blackhawkn wanted to make sure we got it. LOL
BLACKHAWKNJ
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When you grow old , 3 things happen. Your memory goes, then.....?
Yes, never made it to commercial loading is a good criterion. Recall reading about the .357 Bain and Davis, like the 22 Jet, unsuited for a revolver.
Then there's the Tround for the Dardick, the Gyrojet.
Yes, never made it to commercial loading is a good criterion. Recall reading about the .357 Bain and Davis, like the 22 Jet, unsuited for a revolver.
Then there's the Tround for the Dardick, the Gyrojet.
FL-NC
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In autoloaders, it seems the shining lights are 9mm and 45 ACP. As they always have been and probably always will be, with everything else somewhere further down the trough. Not based on my preferences, just reality and numbers.
I am another who would not consider the .40 S&W a flop. I liked the .40, until my hands aged-out of shooting it through high-bore-axis, light-alloy-frame pistols. That was when I reached age 50, in 2011. Step one was to resume using a 1911 as a personal-time carry weapon, a departure from my usual habit of using only one auto-pistol system at a time, for both primary duty and primary personal carry. (That steel frame damps recoil, the bore axis of a 1911 is low, and .45 ACP accelerates more gently.) As soon as my chief authorized 9mm to be an alternative duty cartridge, in the 9mm versions of the already-approved duty pistols, in 2015, I switched to a Gen4 Glock 17 duty pistol.
It is not that .40 S&W had wrecked my right thumb, hand, and wrist, on its own. Big-bore Magnums, in the Eighties, probably did most of the damage. Had I trained less often, with .44 and then .41 Mags, I might have been able to continue using .40 S&W. I still have my SIG P229R DAK .40 duty pistol; honorably retired from carry status, my longest-serving individual duty pistol, for eleven of my 33+ years of service. I sold or traded my other .40 pistols.
It is not that .40 S&W had wrecked my right thumb, hand, and wrist, on its own. Big-bore Magnums, in the Eighties, probably did most of the damage. Had I trained less often, with .44 and then .41 Mags, I might have been able to continue using .40 S&W. I still have my SIG P229R DAK .40 duty pistol; honorably retired from carry status, my longest-serving individual duty pistol, for eleven of my 33+ years of service. I sold or traded my other .40 pistols.
GooseGestapo
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Tapered Case? Have you seen/shot one?
I have! It’s essentially straight, like a .38 Super w/o a rim.
Cylinder is a .32H&R mag. Two dropped cases are factory and reloaded.30 SC in a .32 H&R cylinder.
As manufactured chambers/ ammo are often different from industry specs.
Bullets have better sectional density and ballistic coefficients than 9mm. Velocities equal or exceed 9mm for equal barrel lengths. I’m fond of mine.
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.38 Special
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As for the thread topic, I'll nominate the .22 Jet. An interesting idea, but case set-back is a thing...
I have a soft spot for .50 diameter handgun bullets and have no idea why I seem to be one of just a few who do. The .50 GI has always struck me as a grand idea.
I have a soft spot for .50 diameter handgun bullets and have no idea why I seem to be one of just a few who do. The .50 GI has always struck me as a grand idea.
WestKentucky
Member
Just look for a list of bottlenecked handgun rounds and you have a really good chunk of cartridges added to this list. 357 Sig is the closest thing to a success I can think of right off hand. So to add some (I’m just thinking, these may have already been mentioned)
22tcm
25naa
32naa
30 Luger
357 Sig
400 corbon
There were some successful ones too but generally those were products of the ammo compatibility between Winchester repeaters and colt revolvers.
My personal favorite is .256 winmag. Ammo has been exceedingly, and increasingly l sparse since the 80s.
Sad thing is that bottlenecks can and will run as reliably as straightwall or tapered rounds but they just never really seem to take off. 357 Sig kinda did, but it fizzled fairly quickly. 22tcm similarly surged then fizzled.
Fn5.7 seems to be hanging around, again in large part to the carbine.
22tcm
25naa
32naa
30 Luger
357 Sig
400 corbon
There were some successful ones too but generally those were products of the ammo compatibility between Winchester repeaters and colt revolvers.
My personal favorite is .256 winmag. Ammo has been exceedingly, and increasingly l sparse since the 80s.
Sad thing is that bottlenecks can and will run as reliably as straightwall or tapered rounds but they just never really seem to take off. 357 Sig kinda did, but it fizzled fairly quickly. 22tcm similarly surged then fizzled.
Fn5.7 seems to be hanging around, again in large part to the carbine.
WestKentucky
Member
Also a dandy in a marlin levermatic.
WestKentucky
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I almost forgot specialty rounds. Shameful I say, and ashamed I am.
specialty handgun rounds are a fad. They are kinda big with revolvers right now (pun intended). 460, 480, 500, and multiple variations thereof. That’s not even dialing back to the creations of folks like Ken Waters, Dick Casull, or John Linebaugh. If there’s a platform to hot rod it’s a heavy revolver. Another good hot rod platform seems to be the large frame Glock…seemingly because of its simplicity to swap parts. The perfect hotrodder though is the single shot pistol, though most of the hotrods there are more accurately described as rifle rounds. That’s where Ken Waters, JD Jones, and a few others have stepped up. All of those may be fantastic in their own way (10” 7-30 waters is flat out awesome) but I don’t think that anybody would really describe those as huge commercial successes. 500sw maybe, but even that can’t be selling a whole lot of ammo.
specialty handgun rounds are a fad. They are kinda big with revolvers right now (pun intended). 460, 480, 500, and multiple variations thereof. That’s not even dialing back to the creations of folks like Ken Waters, Dick Casull, or John Linebaugh. If there’s a platform to hot rod it’s a heavy revolver. Another good hot rod platform seems to be the large frame Glock…seemingly because of its simplicity to swap parts. The perfect hotrodder though is the single shot pistol, though most of the hotrods there are more accurately described as rifle rounds. That’s where Ken Waters, JD Jones, and a few others have stepped up. All of those may be fantastic in their own way (10” 7-30 waters is flat out awesome) but I don’t think that anybody would really describe those as huge commercial successes. 500sw maybe, but even that can’t be selling a whole lot of ammo.
Rob96
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In regards to the 45 GAP, it obviously didn't do well here but what about countries where owning military calibers are illegal to own?
Simple Shooter
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A few years back, I had to listen to a somewhat loud and definitely inebriated individual spout off about the 12mm he was issued in the "special forces". I expect the 12mm round, as well as his "special forces" career, came to a sudden end when he passed out that night.
In the realm of that which actually exists, I agree with the previous mentions of the 357Sig. Federal and Sig had high hopes for this cartridge. Like the 10mm, 357Sig was to make up for the perceived insufficiencies of the 9mm which originated from the FBI Miami shootout. (I believe the 9mm was a scapegoat, but that's a whole other post.) Aside from the heavier recoil, the cartridge also suffers from being very expensive, requiring a heavier firearm, and being a challenge to reload compared to one with a strait wall case. It never really had a chance.
In the realm of that which actually exists, I agree with the previous mentions of the 357Sig. Federal and Sig had high hopes for this cartridge. Like the 10mm, 357Sig was to make up for the perceived insufficiencies of the 9mm which originated from the FBI Miami shootout. (I believe the 9mm was a scapegoat, but that's a whole other post.) Aside from the heavier recoil, the cartridge also suffers from being very expensive, requiring a heavier firearm, and being a challenge to reload compared to one with a strait wall case. It never really had a chance.
I've never seen anything rise in popularity as fast as 40 S&W. Nor fall from grace as fast.
The vacation to Fantasy Island is over. Come back to the real world.
That myth persisted for years mostly because USA manufactured 9mm loads were anemic. The rest of the world was using 9mm loads that were much more effective. Once USA manufacturers started loading 9mm to its potential that led to the death of 40 S&W. And the decline of 40 S&W contributed to the rise of 10mm.
Today there is no measurable difference between 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 357 mag, nor 357 Sig when it comes to effectiveness on human threats. It only makes sense to use the less expensive option that holds more rounds, has less recoil, and most people shoot more accurately.
One of the reasons for 357 mag revolvers popularity is their versatility. They can handle bullets from 110 gr to 200 gr can be effective on human, or larger 4-legged predators. The 10mm round fills that niche for guys who prefer a semi to a revolver.
Just as you don't always shoot full power 357 mag loads in a revolver, you don't always have to shoot full power 10mm loads in a pistol. A 10mm owner can shoot 40 S&W level loads (even 40 S&W ammo in many cases) and have a very effective handgun doing anything 40 S&W does. OR they can use much hotter loads if necessary.
The vacation to Fantasy Island is over. Come back to the real world.
That myth persisted for years mostly because USA manufactured 9mm loads were anemic. The rest of the world was using 9mm loads that were much more effective. Once USA manufacturers started loading 9mm to its potential that led to the death of 40 S&W. And the decline of 40 S&W contributed to the rise of 10mm.
Today there is no measurable difference between 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 357 mag, nor 357 Sig when it comes to effectiveness on human threats. It only makes sense to use the less expensive option that holds more rounds, has less recoil, and most people shoot more accurately.
One of the reasons for 357 mag revolvers popularity is their versatility. They can handle bullets from 110 gr to 200 gr can be effective on human, or larger 4-legged predators. The 10mm round fills that niche for guys who prefer a semi to a revolver.
Just as you don't always shoot full power 357 mag loads in a revolver, you don't always have to shoot full power 10mm loads in a pistol. A 10mm owner can shoot 40 S&W level loads (even 40 S&W ammo in many cases) and have a very effective handgun doing anything 40 S&W does. OR they can use much hotter loads if necessary.
According to Guns.Com .40 was 3rd in 2019:
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/06/25/top-5-most-popular-calibers-for-handguns
Newer data seems to be swamped by SHOT coverage but even though declining I would not call it a flop. I added a couple of CMMGs and a Glock last year as I have moved to it for my field and HD weapons. I still EDC 9mm though because of the wider availability of handguns. Personally, I prefer the .40.
To add to the OP, another one of my favorites, .357 SIG.
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/06/25/top-5-most-popular-calibers-for-handguns
Newer data seems to be swamped by SHOT coverage but even though declining I would not call it a flop. I added a couple of CMMGs and a Glock last year as I have moved to it for my field and HD weapons. I still EDC 9mm though because of the wider availability of handguns. Personally, I prefer the .40.
To add to the OP, another one of my favorites, .357 SIG.
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